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Old 01-11-2008, 03:16 PM   #681
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What phanan said
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:32 PM   #682
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


A) You don't know that.

B) That doesn't make it ok.



Daily Kos
Dirty tricks in Michigan?????


We don't know the GOP would do that ???????


Quote:
Published on Tuesday, July 20, 2004

Nader's "Grassroots" Campaign...Courtesy of GOP
by Jeff Cohen


Four years after the Florida debacle, with nearly all of Ralph Nader's longtime progressive allies now tactically supporting Kerry in swing states to retire the Bush regime, the Nader campaign has created none of the grassroots thunder of 2000. Indeed, it's been a hollow enterprise -- attracting a few leftwing sects and polemicists.

Given this vacuum, it's no surprise that pro-Bush forces have rushed to Nader's side. What is a surprise is the brazenness of their support. And, how readily Nader has accepted the right-wing help.

Nader has complained -- correctly in at least one state -- of covert Democratic efforts to keep him off ballots. But in Michigan, he has no such excuse. In that key battleground state, after Nader volunteers had collected only 5,000 of the 30,000 signatures necessary to get on the ballot, Michigan's Republican Party came to the rescue with 43,000 Nader signatures.
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Old 01-11-2008, 03:47 PM   #683
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Hopefully McCain wins by such a margin that it doesnt matter.
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Old 01-11-2008, 05:31 PM   #684
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Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2


But it's sad that whenever the topic of dirty tricks comes up here, all the talk is about the evil Republicans and how perfect the Democrats are.
Really? Well, please point that out next time you see it. I can't wait till that 'Perfect Democrat' thread gets posted.

I think part of it, is that the Republicans in general have been selling themselves as the moral party, and when you sell yourself as the moral party the fall is usually a much bigger fall, and much much easier to see. But if you haven't spent so much of your time placing yourself on a soapbox or a cross the fall has much less impact.
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Old 01-11-2008, 09:07 PM   #685
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CNN polling now has John McCain as the clear Republican front runner nationally. Hillary Clinton has the lead for the Democrats.


Registered Republicans
Jan
9-10
2008
McCain 34%
Huckabee 21%
Giuliani 18%
Romney 14%
Thompson 6%
Paul 5%
Hunter 1%
No opinion 2%




Registered Democrats
Jan
9-10
2008
Clinton 49%
Obama 36%
Edwards 12%
Kucinich 1%
Gravel *
No opinion 2%



Here is an 8 page analysis from CNN Opinion Research:

http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2008/images/01/11/rel1a.pdf
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Old 01-12-2008, 06:35 AM   #686
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I've seen some real trash about Obama. Stuff about his Muslim school, stuff about him being a Catholic, all sorts of crazy stuff.
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Old 01-12-2008, 08:37 AM   #687
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Scary thought 1: If it comes down to McCain v. Hillary. Republicans win.

Scary thought 2: If it comes down to McCain v. Hillary, with Bloomberg running independant, Republicans surely win.

Scary thought 3: If it comes down to McCain v. Hillary, I might actually vote McCain, despite him coming off as too old and slightly delusional compared to his 2000 self.
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Old 01-12-2008, 09:05 AM   #688
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Quote:
Originally posted by Strongbow
CNN polling now has John McCain as the clear Republican front runner nationally. Hillary Clinton has the lead for the Democrats.
Looks like they didn't poll the independents though.
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Old 01-12-2008, 02:42 PM   #689
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Looks like they didn't poll the independents though.
Any independents who are able to vote in the Republican primaries would overwhelmingly vote for McCain. For the Democrats it appears they would raise Obama's profile so it would be an issue for the Democrats, but again, many states do not allow independents to vote in the party primaries.
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Old 01-13-2008, 06:47 AM   #690
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I'm voting for the Democrat. No way I could vote for a Republican.
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Old 01-14-2008, 03:18 AM   #691
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Quote:
Clinton, Obama Spar as Race Heats Up

By Beth Fouhy, Associated Press, Jan. 14

...Both Clinton and her husband, the former president, have engaged in damage control after black leaders criticized comments they made shortly before the New Hampshire primary last Tuesday, which Clinton won. Clinton was quoted as saying that King's dream of racial equality had been realized only when President Lyndon B. Johnson signed the Civil Rights Act of 1964, while her husband said Obama was telling a "fairy tale" about his opposition to the Iraq war. The former president has appeared on several black-oriented radio programs to say he was referring to Obama's record on the war, not on the Illinois senator's effort to become the first black president.

As evidence for their argument that the Obama campaign had pushed the story, Clinton advisers pointed to a memo written by an Obama staffer compiling examples of comments by Clinton and her surrogates that could be construed as racially insensitive. The memo later surfaced on a handful of political Web sites. Obama later called Clinton's accusations "ludicrous," and said he found her comments about King to be ill-advised and unfortunate.

Another rival, John Edwards, also criticized Clinton's comments about King. "I must say I was troubled recently to see a suggestion that real change came not through the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King but through a Washington politician. I fundamentally disagree with that," Edwards told more than 200 people at a predominantly black Baptist church in Sumter, SC. Edwards said, "Those who believe that real change starts with Washington politicians have been in Washington too long and are living a fairy tale."

Later yesterday, the Clinton campaign scrambled to explain comments by a top supporter, Black Entertainment Television founder Bob Johnson, that seemed to raise the issue of Obama's admitted teenage drug use. Johnson said at an event with Clinton in Columbia, SC, that he was "frankly insulted" the Obama campaign would make implications about "Hillary and Bill Clinton, who have been deeply and emotionally involved in black issues--when Barack Obama was doing something in the neighborhood; I won't say what he was doing, but he said it in his book." In his memoir, Obama described using marijuana and occasionally sampling cocaine as a youth. The Clinton campaign later released a statement in which Johnson said his comments referred to Obama's years as a community organizer in Chicago "and nothing else."
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:50 AM   #692
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And they say it's the Republicans who exploit race...

I thought the Democrats didn't give a crap about race, but I guess I'm wrong. Suddenly the GOP field doesn't seem so divided when you look at what's going on with the Dems.
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Old 01-14-2008, 02:48 PM   #693
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The GOP candidates are all white men; it would be surprising if tensions surrounding race or gender were present in the race between them.
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Old 01-14-2008, 02:56 PM   #694
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I am looking at my Feb 5 CA GOP ballot pamphlet


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republi...rimaries,_2008


and I don't disagree with your conclusion.

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Old 01-14-2008, 04:29 PM   #695
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TV Newser

Rep. Dennis Kucinich won't be taking part in MSNBC's debate in Las Vegas on Tuesday. It certainly won't be the first time that Kucinich was excluded from a recent Democratic debate. But the difference is Kucinich was initially invited, and had met the criteria, for the MSNBC debate. Then, MSNBC changed the criteria and told Kucinich he was uninvited.

Alternet published a Kucinich press release, which said that 44 hours after Kucinich got a congratulatory letter and invite from NBC to the Nevada debate, they notified him of their changed criteria, and his exclusion.

In the press release, the Kucinich campaign took a shot at the media as a whole: "When 'big media' exert their unbridled control over what Americans can see, hear, and read, then the Constitutional power and right of the citizens to vote is being vetoed by multi-billion corporations that want the votes to go their way."

According to the Los Angeles Times, the original criteria for the debate called for the inclusion of the top four democratic candidates in national polling. With Bill Richardson dropping out of the race last week, that moved Kucinich to fourth place in polls. NBC decided to change the criteria, featuring the top three Dem. candidates: Sen. Hillary Clinton, John Edwards and Sen. Barack Obama.
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Old 01-14-2008, 04:38 PM   #696
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USAT/Gallup Poll: McCain jumps to lead; Clinton regains advantage

Both winners in last week's New Hampshire primary now lead in the USA TODAY/Gallup national poll of the Republican and Democratic presidential nomination races.

Sen. John McCain has jumped ahead of the other Republican contenders.

In the race for the Democratic presidential nomination, Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton has regained her lead over Sen. Barack Obama. The two were tied a week ago.

The poll of voters from each party, taken over the weekend and released just a few minutes ago, shows:

Republicans
McCain: 33%, up from 19% a week ago.
Mike Huckabee: 19%, down from 25%.
Rudy Giuliani: 13%; down from 20%.
Mitt Romney: 11%; up from 9%.
Fred Thompson: 9%; down from 12%.
Rep. Ron Paul: 3%; down from 4%.
Rep. Duncan Hunter: 2%; up from 1%.
Alan Keyes: 1%; vs. 0.

Democrats
Clinton: 45%; up from 33%.
Obama: 33%, unchanged.
John Edwards: 13%; down from 20%.
Rep. Dennis Kucinich: 1%; down from 3%.
Mike Gravel: 1%; vs. 0.

There were 1,021 Democrats and "Democratic leaners" surveyed and 831 Republicans and "Republican leaners." The Democratic results each have a margin of error of +/- 3 percentage points. The Republican results each have a margin of error of +/- 4 percentage points.

As always, the poll is a snapshot of current public opinion -- and that opinion can be swayed by events, such as last week's New Hampshire primary results and the outcomes of upcoming contests in Michigan (tomorrow), South Carolina (Republicans on Saturday and Democrats on Jan. 26), Nevada (Saturday), Florida (Jan. 29) and the 22 "Super Tuesday" states on Feb. 5.

Two other national polls released in the last 24 hours also showed McCain pulling ahead of his Republican rivals and Clinton leading among Democrats.

• A Washington Post/ABC News survey came up with these results:

Republicans
McCain, 28%.
Mccain Mike Huckabee, 20%.
Mitt Romney, 19%.
Rudy Giuliani, 15%.
Fred Thompson, 8%.

Democrats
Clinton, 42%.
Obama, 37%.
John Edwards, 11%.


• A New York Times/CBS News survey produced these numbers:

Republicans
McCain, 33%.
Mike Huckabee, 18%.
Rudy Giuliani, 10%.
Mitt Romney, 8%.
Fred Thompson, 8%.

Democrats
Clinton, 42%.
Obama, 27%.
John Edwards, 11%.

Related news about polling cell phone users: Our Gallup Guru blogging partner, Gallup Poll editor in chief Frank Newport, explains today how Gallup is now making sure to include cell phone users "as part of the sample used for its general population studies."

In recent years, many poll skeptics have alleged that such surveys can't be accurate because so many more people (especially younger voters) either do not have land lines or rely almost totally on cell phones.
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Old 01-14-2008, 04:52 PM   #697
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national polls mean more now than they did a month ago, but it's still too early to derive too much.

McCain needs to win Michigan, but not quite as badly as Romney needs to win Michigan. and if Obama wins in SC and NV, then it's going to be a nailbiter. it's about the momentum and not the numbers that comes out of each state. i think HRC's bounce is due to the fact that she was down but came back, rather than the fact that her old inevitability has been shattered. it's the horse race that counts more than it should.

i do hope McCain is the Republican nominee. i've long said that he's the only adult running amongst the Republicans, and i think he'd actually be able to have a mature, thoughtful debate with his opponent, and he, like Obama, would be able to move beyond the intentional polarization of the Bush years. he's been both right and wrong on Iraq -- he's wrong to trump up the surge to be more than what it is and he's wrong to be politically manipulative with the troops, but he was right to spend as much time as he could bashing Rumsfeld and, by association, Bush, in their horrific mismanagement of the war from the beginning, and he's done all he can to re-brand his support of the war.

i think he'd lose to Obama, and it would come down to the wire against HRC. any other Republican would get crushed by either. McCain is their only shot -- let's see if they can get over the fact that he doesn't want to round up Mexicans, doesn't want to torture, and isn't a global warming denialist.

should be interesting.
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Old 01-14-2008, 06:04 PM   #698
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
national polls mean more now than they did a month ago, but it's still too early to derive too much.

McCain needs to win Michigan, but not quite as badly as Romney needs to win Michigan.

and if Obama wins in SC and NV, then it's going to be a nailbiter.
I agree completely.

and most likely Romney will win Mich and

"Live to die another day."


and most likely Obama will win the primary in S C

and he has this "phony, does not mean anything about how people will actually vote" caucus thing in Nevada stacked his way.


If he does poorly, and somehow misses in SC and Nev, (not likely) he could be on his way out.


After Feb 5 the Dems should have it settled, or a clear winner on track to the nomination.

I can’t say it will be the same for the GOP.
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Old 01-14-2008, 07:39 PM   #699
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
I am looking at my Feb 5 CA GOP ballot pamphlet



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Old 01-15-2008, 02:35 AM   #700
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Obama, speaking at a press conference following a campaign event in Reno this afternoon:
Quote:
You have seen a tone on the Democratic side of the campaign that has been unfortunate. I want to stipulate a couple of things. I may disagree with Senator Clinton and Senator Edwards on how to get there, but we share the same goals. We all believe in civil rights. We all believe in equal rights. They are good people. They are patriots...I don't want the campaign at this stage to degenerate to so much tit-for-tat, back-and-forth, that we lose sight of why we are doing this...I want to send a strong signal to my own supporters that let’s try to focus on the work that needs to get done. If I hear my own supporters engaging in talk that I think is ungenerous or misleading or unfair, I will speak out forcefully against it...Bill Clinton and Hillary Clinton have historically been on the right side of civil rights issues. They care about the African American community...That is something I am convinced of. I want Americans to know that is my assessment.
HRC released a statement an hour or so later, following a union event in NYC:
Quote:
Our party and our nation is bigger than this. Our party has been on the front line of every civil rights movement, women's rights movement, workers' rights movement, and other movements for justice in America. We differ on a lot of things. And it is critical to have the right kind of discussion on where we stand. But when it comes to civil rights and our commitment to diversity, when it comes to our heroes--President John F. Kennedy and Dr. King--Senator Obama and I are on the same side. And in that spirit, let's come together, because I want more than anything else to ensure that our family stays together on the front lines of the struggle to expand rights for all Americans.
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