US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread - Part Catorce! - Page 6

phanan · 01-31-2008, 04:01 PM

Now where have I heard this all before?

**Diemen** · 01-31-2008, 04:01 PM

resolution1441

Instead of Strongbow (resolution1441), you should've gone (resolution1441) with Gulf War Rudy.

resolution1441

BVS · 01-31-2008, 04:06 PM

I think we should loop it over some techno and make it a sticky...

onebloodonelife · 01-31-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by joyfulgirl
Obama's speaking here tomorrow night. Too bad I'll be out of town. It would have been interesting to see how I felt about him in person. I definitely would have gotten tickets, too, since because of my work I was included on an early invitation list. Oh well. I'll have to hear about it from my colleagues.

That is too bad. I'm getting to see him on Saturday, got the ticket today and everything.

Irvine511 · 01-31-2008, 04:31 PM

it's funny, because i debunked and destroyed STING's version of 1441. years ago. i can dig up the thread, but what good does it do?

2861U2 · 01-31-2008, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phillyfan26
I did, though I was 12 and lacked the cynicism of today's PF26.

I've seen you say things like that before, talking about how you felt politically when you were younger, and I'm just curious...

(and please don't take this the wrong way- this isn't meant to sound condescending or rude, I'm just curious)

Did you really pay attention to current political affairs and know what was going on in the world when you were only 12? I say that because my sister is 14 and she's starting to get interested in politics, and it's hard to imagine someone 2 years younger than her paying attention to the invasion in 2003. I was only 15 at the time, and I barely understood what was going on.

**Diemen** · 01-31-2008, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Irvine511
it's funny, because i debunked and destroyed STING's version of 1441. years ago. i can dig up the thread, but what good does it do?

I wouldn't mind reading it again. Just to cheer me up.

martha · 01-31-2008, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Irvine511
it's funny, because i debunked and destroyed STING's version of 1441. years ago. i can dig up the thread, but what good does it do?

It'll make some of us chuckle.

martha · 01-31-2008, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strongbow
Removing Saddam was an absolute necessity, and the need to stay and rebuild Iraq to prevent it from becoming a threat again is just as necessary as the same operation going on in Afghanistan.

What did you do to support this? Other than post statistics, I mean.

Or are your feet flat?

phillyfan26 · 01-31-2008, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 2861U2
I've seen you say things like that before, talking about how you felt politically when you were younger, and I'm just curious...

(and please don't take this the wrong way- this isn't meant to sound condescending or rude, I'm just curious)

Did you really pay attention to current political affairs and know what was going on in the world when you were only 12? I say that because my sister is 14 and she's starting to get interested in politics, and it's hard to imagine someone 2 years younger than her paying attention to the invasion in 2003. I was only 15 at the time, and I barely understood what was going on.

It's an interesting question.

I believe that I paid attention to political affairs and politics, though not nearly as thoroughly as today, at age 12. I think the difference is that at that age I didn't really grasp the concept of flaws in government, and that not everything done is full-proof. For example, I supported the death penalty at that time because I believed that there were scumbags out there who deserved the worst. Now, I believe it doesn't make sense because the system isn't meant to be full-proof and, even if it tried to, never could be. I think the changes that occured were more about ways of viewing the world than how much I paid attention. I certainly think I pay more attention now, but I think even then I paid more attention than most at that age do.

I mean, as a 12 year old, I heard from President Bush that Saddam had WMDs, they had proof, and that he needed to be stopped. My understanding was that the UN hadn't approved it and was still investigating, but President Bush was bravely going out on a limb to do what was really right. My understanding was that there were pockets of resistance, but I didn't understand why anyone would want to keep us from protecting ourselves from Saddam.

I do remember thinking to myself, "Why Iraq, though? I thought Afghanistan was the home of the bad guys." I always felt like we went harder after Iraq than Afghanistan, even though Afghanistan was a more important target.

Even at age 13, during the 2004 elections, I was on the pro-Bush side in history class debates about the election. I don't remember what my arguments were, but I remember being a leader in the pack, one of the most talkative Bush supporters.

The first time it hit me that I might have been wrong the whole time was sometime in mid-2005. For some reason, this is coming to my head right at this moment: I was sitting in my bedroom listening to the radio, and they were just listing off statistic after statistic that showed us failing to achieve anything in Iraq. I essentially walked out of my room thinking, "I still like Bush, but I could've been wrong about this war."

By late 2006 I was independent and by this past summer I was liberal.

Irvine511 · 01-31-2008, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by martha

It'll make some of us chuckle.

i keep chuckling at the equivocation between a) throwing Saddam out of Kuwait, and b) invading Iraq, overthrowing Saddam, dismantling the government, and trying to build a new government all while not planning for *anything*.

but i guess you have to make such leaps in logic for anything to make sense.

phillyfan26 · 01-31-2008, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Irvine511
i keep chuckling at the equivocation between a) throwing Saddam out of Kuwait, and b) invading Iraq, overthrowing Saddam, dismantling the government, and trying to build a new government all while not planning for *anything*.

but i guess you have to make such leaps in logic for anything to make sense.

Your chuckling reminds me of the Gulf War and Resolution 1441.

**Diemen** · 01-31-2008, 05:59 PM

Statistics bear that out. Chuckling in response to UN resolutions has risen sharply in recent times, from 14 to 41%.

phillyfan26 · 01-31-2008, 06:25 PM

Maybe U2's new numbers-based album will be called "1441."

Irvine511 · 01-31-2008, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by phillyfan26
Maybe U2's new numbers-based album will be called "1441."

if it's named that, then there will definitely be NO MERCY!!!

BonosSaint · 01-31-2008, 06:33 PM

They still haven't found what they're looking for.

U2democrat · 01-31-2008, 06:35 PM

Oh y'all are so punny

Strongbow · 01-31-2008, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Irvine511
it's funny, because i debunked and destroyed STING's version of 1441. years ago. i can dig up the thread, but what good does it do?

Well, Colin Powell, John McCain, two prominent members from the left leaning Brookings Institution Michael O'Halon and Ken Pollack(who was the expert in Bill Clintons administration on Iraq) all agree that 1441 did authorize use of military force to invade Iraq. No one has debunked their views and I would be more than happy to discuss the issue in detail again.

**Diemen** · 01-31-2008, 09:50 PM

What? You'd be more than happy to discuss Resolution 1441??

Who are you, and what did you do with the real Sting?

anitram · 01-31-2008, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Strongbow
I would be more than happy to discuss the issue in detail again.

I can only speak for myself but I'm more than happy to concede this point to you just so we can NEVER ever talk about it again. Ever.

01-31-2008, 04:01 PM	#101
phanan Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: in the darkness on the edge of town Posts: 25,837 Local Time: 03:23 PM	Now where have I heard this all before? __________________

01-31-2008, 04:01 PM	#102
Diemen Resident Photo Buff Forum Moderator Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Somewhere in middle America Posts: 13,663 Local Time: 02:23 PM	resolution1441 Instead of Strongbow (resolution1441), you should've gone (resolution1441) with Gulf War Rudy. resolution1441 __________________

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01-31-2008, 04:06 PM	#103
BVS Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: between my head and heart Posts: 41,232 Local Time: 02:23 PM	I think we should loop it over some techno and make it a sticky...

01-31-2008, 04:31 PM	#105
Irvine511 Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 33,395 Local Time: 03:23 PM	it's funny, because i debunked and destroyed STING's version of 1441. years ago. i can dig up the thread, but what good does it do?

01-31-2008, 05:59 PM	#113
Diemen Resident Photo Buff Forum Moderator Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Somewhere in middle America Posts: 13,663 Local Time: 02:23 PM	Statistics bear that out. Chuckling in response to UN resolutions has risen sharply in recent times, from 14 to 41%.

01-31-2008, 06:25 PM	#114
phillyfan26 Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 30,343 Local Time: 02:23 PM	Maybe U2's new numbers-based album will be called "1441."

01-31-2008, 06:33 PM	#116
BonosSaint Rock n' Roll Doggie Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 3,566 Local Time: 03:23 PM	They still haven't found what they're looking for.

01-31-2008, 06:35 PM	#117
U2democrat Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: England by way of 'Murica. Posts: 22,142 Local Time: 07:23 PM	Oh y'all are so punny

01-31-2008, 09:50 PM	#119
Diemen Resident Photo Buff Forum Moderator Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Somewhere in middle America Posts: 13,663 Local Time: 02:23 PM	What? You'd be more than happy to discuss Resolution 1441?? Who are you, and what did you do with the real Sting?