US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread - Part Catorce!

[U2democrat]

Originally posted by martha


Even if that means voting for McCain?

That's what Hillary would want you to do

[BVS]

Originally posted by MrsSpringsteen
You mean Ferraro cut Diane off? I thought Diane didn't give her much of a chance to speak at times. Or should I say to try to dig herself out of the hole.

Well I think Diane was trying to get her to answer directly whereas Ferraro wanted to talk around the subject, repeatingly saying, "I'll get to that..."

I understand what she was trying to say, unfortunately she's horrible with words and didn't do a very good job explaining herself.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Yes she is horrible with words. I think she was nervous and defensive, but no one put her in that position but herself with her own words.

[martha]

Originally posted by U2democrat


That's what Hillary would want you to do

I think I'm asking a legitimate question: Would Democrats who hate Hilary vote for McCain if she gets the nomination?

[U2democrat]

It's possible, though I am not one of them. Though I don't consider myself a Hillary "hater", just disappointed and wary of her.

[BVS]

Originally posted by martha


I think I'm asking a legitimate question: Would Democrats who hate Hilary vote for McCain if she gets the nomination?

I think most would just stay home. I definately think she's gained quite a few haters in the Dem party during this campaign.

I don't consider myself a hater, I would still vote for her if she gets the nom, but she's fallen quite a bit in my eyes over the last year. But I would still consider her slightly better than another 8 years led by a Republican. Now if McCain had stuck to his guns and been the man he was 4 years ago, and it was between McCain and Hillary, I would actually vote for McCain.

[sulawesigirl4]

I don't hate Hillary. But at this point, she does not represent me and she does not represent the kind of Democratic party that I want to be a part of. If she's the nominee, I won't vote for McCain. I just won't vote at all. And it makes me sick to my stomach to think it's come to that.

[deep]

I brought up the issue
a little differently than Geraldine Ferraro

and no one replied

so I will repost it


and I do think it would be nice if some of you

Obama supporters would reply?

I am at a bit of a loss

with all this emphasis on the packaging



I know it is not easy

but, switch out McCain
with a Margaret Thacher type

I choose her because she is close to his age

I hope that person would have the same pool of voters regardless of gender


and again,
swap Hillary for a 60 year old male,
say a Gore or Kerry
with the same programs and agenda?

I hope that person would have the same pool of voters, would it be larger?


I did this exercise with Obama
swap him out for someone that has only been a U S Senator for 3 years

and ask yourself if a different package
would get his same pool of voters ?

more or less?


Is there too much consideration being given to the packaging?

Well, Obama supporters?

[BVS]

Originally posted by deep

Well, Obama supporters?

Short answer, yes. He may lose a few but not as many as I guess you would expect. In fact now that I think of it, his numbers may actually go up, for there are probably many on the fence where race plays a card with Obama.

He would still come off as the young fresh we're ready for a new generation to run this country man.

He would still have many voters voting based just on his looks and charisma, but that comes with every nominee.



McCain will have those that vote just because he has an R behind his name. Hell many of them are in here, they bashed him for months but will now vote for him. But if he were black, everything would change. If he were a woman, some things would change...

If Hillary were a man she would probably stay where she is, she'd gain some male votes, those that label certain actions as aggresive for males and bitchy as females(we all know the type). But she'd also lose a lot of female vote who wanted the first female president.

[joyfulgirl]

Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
I don't hate Hillary. But at this point, she does not represent me and she does not represent the kind of Democratic party that I want to be a part of. If she's the nominee, I won't vote for McCain. I just won't vote at all. And it makes me sick to my stomach to think it's come to that.

Please consider the Supreme Court. Three justices are likely to step down during the next administration. I feel confident Clinton would make decent appointments. A Republican administration would surely tilt the balance to the right with long-term consequences.

[anitram]

Originally posted by martha


I think I'm asking a legitimate question: Would Democrats who hate Hilary vote for McCain if she gets the nomination?

Hillary cannot win mathematically.

Even if she won ALL the remaining contests 60-40 and if they re-ran MI and FL and she won by such margins, she can't catch up. That is the rosy scenario which she will never meet. If things go her way, MAYBE she wins half of the remaining contests. Maybe.

The only way she wins is through the superdelegates. After losing most of the contests, the pledged delegates, the money race and the popular vote, this is how she wants to win?

I think the independents may swing to McCain (they've inexplicably liked his phony gravitas all along). But a large, large chunk of Obama's people, and especially the younger crowd, would, in my opinion, not vote at all.

Half the time I think that she is trying to destroy Obama because she knows that she cannot win this year but thinks she can damage him enough to give the GOP a leg up and then she can sweep in and unseat McCain in 2012. Perhaps she can run on a ticket with Mitt, who seems to be thinking much of the same.

[deep]

Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar
Short answer, yes. He may lose a few but not as many as I guess you would expect. In fact now that I think of it, his numbers may actually go up, for there are probably many on the fence where race plays a card with Obama.

He would still come off as the young fresh we're ready for a new generation to run this country man.

He would still have many voters voting based just on his looks and charisma, but that comes with every nominee.

I will accept that you believe this to be true.

But, I just don't buy it.


Edwards offered much of what Obama offers, plus even more.

I believe that a good portion of Obama's support is based on the packaging.

And I can relate, I could quote many times where people in here have posted how great it will be to have a Black president. A president with Muslims in his family. A president with a name, like Barack Hussein Obama.


I believe many are voting his direction because they want to turn to a new page for America.

And I also agree these things are good.

But with me, I might give him 5% for the packaging.

And that is not enough to win my support.

I believe many are giving him 20% + on the packaging.

[diamond]

Edwards is no Obama.

Not even close.

dbs

[Irvine511]

Originally posted by joyfulgirl


Please consider the Supreme Court. Three justices are likely to step down during the next administration. I feel confident Clinton would make decent appointments. A Republican administration would surely tilt the balance to the right with long-term consequences.

[diamond]

This why McCain will be our next President kids.

Mark my words.

3/12/2007

diamondbrunothetruth.

[martha]

Originally posted by sulawesigirl4
I just won't vote at all. And it makes me sick to my stomach to think it's come to that.

Me too. I expect more from Democrats that the "stay at home" solution. We do need to consider the future of our country and put that above any personal dislike for the nominee.

[diamond]

I think you guys should stay at home.

After it's all over and you get past the election trauma of a McCain victory I will invite you over to my house to decompress and recover from your grief.

Out of the large reservoirs of Compassionate Conservative contained within the deep inner region of my bowels, I with you will go out to your your hybrid vehicles that you traveled in from far and near and with blow dryers will help your melt and pull of your Obama and Hillary bumper stickers off of your cars.

This is the least I can do; I love you guys and will be here not to gloat but to help you up.



dbs

[joyfulgirl]

Originally posted by martha


Me too. I expect more from Democrats that the "stay at home" solution. We do need to consider the future of our country and put that above any personal dislike for the nominee.

I sincerely hope would-be say-at-homes will have a look at Hillary Clinton's voting record which indicates a solid left-leaning liberal and is almost indistinguishable from Obama's. Regardless of what anyone thinks about how she has run her campaign, and I make no defense of her there, she would be better for the country from a liberal perspective than McCain. I have generally voted against Republicans instead of for Democrats which is sad to me but it's better than the alternatives, and I have never regretted it that I can think of.

[martha]

I actually voted for a Republican once, and left office in disgrace. That was enough for me.

[joyfulgirl]

Originally posted by martha
I actually voted for a Republican once, and left office in disgrace. That was enough for me.

I voted for a Republican once, too, the first time I ever voted when I was young and stupid and still following my parents' politics instead of actually thinking for myself, but let's not talk about that. But when I said I have never regretted voting against a Republican (instead of not voting at all), no regets.