US 2008 Presidential Campaign/Debate Discussion Thread #6

[financeguy]

That's because Europe and Europeans finally have the candidate they have always wanted. Since the beginning of time Europe has promoted socialism, and now America has the socialist candidate if there ever was one. No wonder everyone overseas is tripping over themselves over him.

You make conservatives look so incredibly stupid to the extent that I'm starting to suspect you may be a very clever satire.

Of the off chance that you are serious, please stop it. With statements like the above, you are doing yourself and the movement you claim to support no favours and giving the left ammunition in their attempts to paint us as bigoted reactonaries.

 

[2861U2]

I, for one, was truly embarrassed by Obama's speech. Why was he speaking English? Why wasn't he speaking German? I thought he wanted all of us speaking foreign languages when we went abroad.

 

[deep]

A man at the Wall began screaming: "Obama, Jerusalem is our land! Obama, Jerusalem is not for sale!"

He kept yelling this for Obama's entire 10 minutes at the Wall, refusing to stop despite repeated entreaties to do so from the crowd.

Obama chatted with the men with whom he'd come to the Wall, before walking to the Wall to place a note he had previously written between the Wall's cracks. He put his hand on the Wall, bowed his head and appeared contemplative.

The heckler, not an Obama fan, continued yelling.

Obama turned from the Wall and walked back to his crowd. Some young men tried to drown out the heckler, chanting, "Obama! Obama! Obama!"

After shaking some hands, Obama got back in his motorcade and headed to the airport.

"It was rowdier than the last time I was there, you know?" Obama told reporters on the plane. "I mean, people were sort of, like, holerin'. We did get some good pictures. You know I was expecting more reverence."

 

[maycocksean]

Good judgement? What say you?

 

[maycocksean]

I, for one, was truly embarrassed by Obama's speech. Why was he speaking English? Why wasn't he speaking German? I thought he wanted all of us speaking foreign languages when we went abroad.

Yikes!

**armaroundshoulder** Buddy. . .I don't think Obama's the one you should be embarrassed for.

 

[deep]

Good judgement? What say you?

If the goal was to use the Holy Land for a photo op?

 

[maycocksean]

If the goal was to use the Holy Land for a photo op?

I'm not sure I follow you. . .I was actually referencing your quote about the heckler but it didn't show up in the quote box.

 

[deep]

I'm not sure I follow you. . .I was actually referencing your quote about the heckler but it didn't show up in the quote box.

Obama went to and intentionally used the Holy Lands, the Temple Mount, for photo opportunities for his campaign.



Was it savvy political judgment?

I think it was poor taste.

Canceled a trip to wounded troops in Germany, not a good a photo op ?

 

[deep]

.

 

[yolland]

McCain had a photo op at the Wall when he was there in March (and he too had problems with "hecklers"). I think that's a pretty standard visiting politicians' stop.

 

[maycocksean]

Obama went to and intentionally used the Holy Lands, the Temple Mount, for photo opportunities for his campaign.

Well, you may be right. . .with the way McCain's campaign is framing the trip and some of the downright ridiculous posts in here about his questionable "American-ness" due to his popularity with the Europeans. Apparently, someone with better judgement would understand that he must play up American "exceptionalism" if he expects to win. If that is really true, than our country is far worse shape than I EVER thought possible.

 

[maycocksean]

Here's a thought:

Maybe it's a GOOD thing to have a president that much of the rest of the world is eager to work with. Maybe we could use that after Bush spent 8 years squandering U.S. political captial abroad.

I would hope that many people in America might see his "European tour" and it's positive response as a good thing and maybe a reason to vote for Obama.

There are others of course that feel that our presidential candidates should take pains to remind the rest of the world that we are better than they are. God help us, if these people carry the day.

 

[deep]

My first guess: photoshopped

Both signs have the exact same curl in the corner. Same writing above. And the colors on the left banner seemed altered.

And then if you bring this image into an editing software and do a quick contrast, you can see some pixels on the left banner are obviously manipulated.

They interviewed a guy on TV who had one of those signs and he seemed to be an Obama supporter (by his accent I'd guess Israeli-born). It didn't sound like anything official.

Grasping at straws, deep?

So my friends and ardent Obama supporters,

as of now, it appears the Obama campaign did trash up the Temple Mount with tacky campaign signs.

Obama camp plasters posters at Western Wall

Advertises Democrat candidate's website, official slogan at Judaism's holiest site

Posted: July 24, 2008
1:44 pm Eastern

By Aaron Klein


JERUSALEM – Sen. Barack Obama's campaign plastered the entrance to the Western Wall – the holiest site in Judaism – with official campaign posters, WND has learned.

Jerusalem police spokesman Mickey Rosenfeld confirmed to WND posters that adorned police barricades erected at the Western Wall plaza for Obama's visit were distributed by the presidential candidate's campaign.

"These posters were his campaign and not the doing of the police," said Rosenfeld, whose police department coordinated security and provided protection for Obama's visit today to the holy site.

Asked if it was traditional practice for politicians visiting the Western Wall to bring along posters or campaign materials, Rosenfeld replied, "No."


Obama campaign posters can be seen in media footage of the Illinois senator's early morning surprise visit to the Western Wall.

His visit reportedly was not on the official campaign schedule.


The posters display Obama's name in Hebrew. One poster erected on the main police barricade used by Obama to enter the holy site boasts the official red, white and blue campaign "O" symbol and advertises the candidate's campaign's website.

A second poster also displays Obama's name in Hebrew and contains an image of Israeli and Obama flags.

Reuters posted images of the Obama campaign posters showing a handful of people waiting behind the police barricades.

Reuters images had the following caption:

"Supporters of U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) stand behind banners printed with his name in Hebrew as they wait for his arrival at the Western wall."

The caption implied supporters brought along the pro-Obama material.

But an eyewitness speaking to WND tells a different story.

"The kids waiting for Obama may not even be Obama supporters. No one knew Obama was coming in advance. We saw the police barricades erected. We saw Obama's face on the posters, and some police said Obama was on his way. So a few people gathered by the barricades and waited for Obama," said the witness.

Obama's media relations department in the U.S. did not reply to a WND phone call request for comment.

Obama arrived at about 5 a.m. Jerusalem time. He wore a Jewish skullcap and placed a prayer in the wall he said he had written. He bowed his head while a rabbi read a psalm calling for peace in the holy city.

 

[deep]

Here's a thought:

Maybe it's a GOOD thing to have a president that much of the rest of the world is eager to work with. Maybe we could use that after Bush spent 8 years squandering U.S. political capital abroad.

I would hope that many people in America might see his "European tour" and it's positive response as a good thing and maybe a reason to vote for Obama.

There are others of course that feel that our presidential candidates should take pains to remind the rest of the world that we are better than they are. God help us, if these people carry the day.

I can understand Obama going to Iraq, Afghanistan, even Israel.

The banners at the Temple Mount were a huge blunder that the Obama leaning press appears to be giving him a complete pass on. (Mission Accomplished, sound familiar? yet another Bush comparision)

The speech in Germany? Is a speech that he should have waited to give after being elected. It is a bit arrogant and presumptive, and may well put off many voters.

Reagan was popular and well received in Germany. He waited until he was President to give his speech as did Kennedy. Can you think of one other candidate (or presumptive candidate) that has given a similar speech in a similar setting?

The German trip should have involved meeting with head of state and a non photo op visit to the wounded troops.



Obama scraps visit to wounded troops
Jul 24 04:09 PM US/Eastern

BERLIN (AP) - Sen. Barack Obama scrapped plans to visit wounded members of the armed forces in Germany as part of his overseas trip, a decision his spokesman said was made because the Democratic presidential candidate thought it would be inappropriate on a campaign-funded journey.

Obama's decision raised a number of questions because the visit, which had been scheduled for Friday, never appeared on the schedule of events distributed to reporters who are accompanying him on his travels.

Obama had been planning to go to Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany before a flight to Paris. Gibbs said the stop was canceled because Obama decided "it would be inappropriate to make a stop to visit troops at a U.S. military facility as part of a trip funded by the campaign."

 

[Vincent Vega]

Obama went to and intentionally used the Holy Lands, the Temple Mount, for photo opportunities for his campaign.



Was it savvy political judgment?

I think it was poor taste.

Canceled a trip to wounded troops in Germany, not a good a photo op ?

Come on, from your 100 year experience of politics or so you really now blame Obama for taking such an opportunity to get some nice photos?
Yeah, he stands for change, but that doesn't mean he will do a total 180 of what every regular politician would have done.

 

[Irvine511]

Obama went to and intentionally used the Holy Lands, the Temple Mount, for photo opportunities for his campaign.



Was it savvy political judgment?

I think it was poor taste.

Canceled a trip to wounded troops in Germany, not a good a photo op ?

so, from now on, all presidential speeches should be in front of big green screens, lest we think that someone is exploiting some diner in rural New Hampshire for the crassness of a photo-op.

 

[Irvine511]

So my friends and ardent Obama supporters,

as of now, it appears the Obama campaign did trash up the Temple Mount with tacky campaign signs.

the freedom of political expression is so tacky.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I love how Jon Stewart said that Obama went to Bethlehem to visit the manger that he was born in

On the news last night I saw a man who had watched the speech in Germany say that Obama was his new messiah

 

[BVS]

I, for one, was truly embarrassed by Obama's speech. Why was he speaking English? Why wasn't he speaking German? I thought he wanted all of us speaking foreign languages when we went abroad.

Oh man, stop trying... Obama's not the one you should be embarassed for...

 

[2861U2]

I love how Jon Stewart said that Obama went to Bethlehem to visit the manger that he was born in

Rush said that, too.

"Do you know what Obama did before he left Israel? He stopped in Bethlehem to visit the site where he was born... but he didn't allow any media in there because he didn't want to disturb the animals."

 

[2861U2]

Oh man, stop trying... Obama's not the one you should be embarassed for...

Thanks, I appreciate the input.

I would like to know what is wrong with talking about American exceptionalism? I hear Ronald Reagan talk about America, and then I hear the Messiah talk about America, and it's two completely different things. I've heard Obama (and wife), and McCain to a lesser extent, say far more negative things about America than positive things. I'm sorry, but to me he seems to be running a campaign more in line with "America is deficient. America sucks" than he is with a shining city on a hill. I know the rest of the world loves hearing how America sucks, which is part of why he is so popular over there, but I don't.

 

[A_Wanderer]

You don't need to whine to get across the point that the God Damn America crowd loves Obama.

 

[BVS]

What's wrong with being honest about the country you live in and trying to fix that?

Seems like you want another liar.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Rush said that, too.
"Do you know what Obama did before he left Israel? He stopped in Bethlehem to visit the site where he was born... but he didn't allow any media in there because he didn't want to disturb the animals."

So who stole it? If Jon Stewart is stealing from Rush, well we really are going to hell in a handbasket. And my marriage to Jon is off. And I want 150 K for the pain and suffering of him stealing from Rush.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

So being honest about the country's flaws is saying that it sucks?

Say you have a great boyfriend or girlfriend but you can't speak about their flaws and can't even say (or SEE) that they have any, what kind of relationship is that?

 

[Irvine511]

I would like to know what is wrong with talking about American exceptionalism?

what do you mean by "American exceptionalism"?

 

[anitram]

The German trip should have involved meeting with head of state and a non photo op visit to the wounded troops.

[/B]

That evil Obama!

BERLIN (Reuters) - U.S. Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama dropped a plan to visit wounded U.S. troops in Germany on Friday after the Pentagon said such venues should not be used for political campaigns.

The Pentagon in a statement cited longstanding Defense Department policy that prohibits military personnel or facilities from association with partisan political campaigns and elections.

 

[Vincent Vega]

I know the rest of the world loves hearing how America sucks, which is part of why he is so popular over there, but I don't.

No, I'm sorry, but you know pretty much nothing about the rest of the world.

 

[A_Wanderer]

That evil Obama!

A U.S. military official tells NBC News they were making preparations for Sen. Barack Obama to visit wounded troops at the Landstuhl Medical Center at Ramstein, Germany on Friday, but "for some reason the visit was called off."

One military official who was working on the Obama visit said because political candidates are prohibited from using military installations as campaign backdrops, Obama's representatives were told, "he could only bring two or three of his Senate staff member, no campaign officials or workers." In addition,
"Obama could not bring any media. Only military photographers would be permitted to record Obama's visit."

The official said "We didn't know why" the request to visit the wounded troops was withdrawn. "He (Obama) was more than welcome. We were all ready for him."

What's not on Obama's schedule... - First Read - msnbc.com

 

[anitram]

what do you mean by "American exceptionalism"?

Wikipedia to the rescue:

American exceptionalism (cf. "exceptionalism") refers to the belief that the United States differs qualitatively from other developed nations, because of its national credo, historical evolution, or distinctive political and religious institutions. The difference is often expressed in American circles as some categorical superiority, to which is usually attached some alleged proof, rationalization or explanation that may vary greatly depending on the historical period and the political context.