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Old 06-28-2008, 02:39 PM   #301
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Bill Clinton should keep his distance from Obama and Axelrod.


They lied about and distorted his record as President.


Hillary should play ball, she's in the Senate

Obama deserves very little if anything from Bill Clinton.
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Old 06-28-2008, 03:15 PM   #302
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Doesn't justify him denigrating Obama that way, no matter how he thinks his Presidency was being distorted.
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Old 06-28-2008, 03:21 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by Vincent Vega View Post
Doesn't justify him denigrating Obama that way, no matter how he thinks his Presidency was being distorted.
What are you talking about ?


The "hearsay" that some tabloid printed ?
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Old 06-28-2008, 03:39 PM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
Bill Clinton should keep his distance from Obama and Axelrod.


They lied about and distorted his record as President.


Hillary should play ball, she's in the Senate

Obama deserves very little if anything from Bill Clinton.
Considering the way Bill treated him during the primary, I don't think Obama is crying over the lack of enthusiastic support.
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Old 06-28-2008, 03:50 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
What are you talking about ?


The "hearsay" that some tabloid printed ?
Since that is what was discussed in the previous four or five posts, yes, the same as you were indirectly reacting to that.
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:04 PM   #306
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Considering the way Bill treated him during the primary, I don't think Obama is crying over the lack of enthusiastic support.
How did he treat him?
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:19 PM   #307
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Originally Posted by Vincent Vega View Post
Since that is what was discussed in the previous four or five posts, yes, the same as you were indirectly reacting to that.
I read the whole article

not just the "kiss my ass" part

the article is speculation if Clinton ever even said that, it is only a tabloid grabbing headline.


There were several Democratic Candidates running, and they all had the decency to treat Bill Clinton, a popular former Democratic president with the respect he earned.

Only one candidate, with a Rove-style adviser, heading his campaign. sank to distorting and lying about Bill Clinton's record.
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:23 PM   #308
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How did he treat him?
Pretty dismissively, I thought. I certainly detected a rather obvious lack of respect for a fellow Democratic presidential candidate coming from Bill. Particularly with the Jesse Jackson comment in North(?) Carolina. There were some other comments that just seemed unnecessarily divisive, too.
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:26 PM   #309
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
Only one candidate, with a Rove-style adviser, heading his campaign. sank to distorting and lying about Bill Clinton's record.
Oh give me a freaking break. Rove-style advisor? Really??
You're so completely over the top when it comes to describing Obama that it's laughable.
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:35 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
Pretty dismissively, I thought. I certainly detected a rather obvious lack of respect for a fellow Democratic presidential candidate coming from Bill. Particularly with the Jesse Jackson comment in North(?) Carolina. There were some other comments that just seemed unnecessarily divisive, too.
It was likely that Obama would do well in South Carolina because of the high numbers of Democratic African American voters and to cite Jesse Jacksons 88 and 92 Presidential runs is not racist. Jackson mobilized great numbers of new voters that helped Clinton win in 1992.

It was a fair question. How did Obama do in the some of the neighboring States, the so called Appalachian states?

The lack of respect you detected? Did Edwards get this lack of respect?

Did Edwards say we have to go back to Reagan for a President that united people. Bill Clinton had a popularity rating consistently in the 60+ range? Who was disrespectful?
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:38 PM   #311
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Oh give me a freaking break. Rove-style advisor? Really??
You're so completely over the top when it comes to describing Obama that it's laughable.
You obviously have not done much looking into how campaigns are run.

Print all the smileys you want
or do a little investigative work.
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:40 PM   #312
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I never said it was racist, I said it was dismissive. When your public reaction to an opponent winning a state is to essentially say "well, some other guy who had no chance of winning won this state before" - I consider that pretty dismissive.

Besides, if we're going to get all specific, I think you can find plenty of instances where the Clintons were just as disrespectful (if not moreso) to Obama. I know Bill is your golden boy, but let's get realistic here.
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:40 PM   #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
I read the whole article

not just the "kiss my ass" part

the article is speculation if Clinton ever even said that, it is only a tabloid grabbing headline.


There were several Democratic Candidates running, and they all had the decency to treat Bill Clinton, a popular former Democratic president with the respect he earned.

Only one candidate, with a Rove-style adviser, heading his campaign. sank to distorting and lying about Bill Clinton's record.
I really hope that's true, i.e. it's a lie. So far I've got a lot of respect for Bill Clinton and really would be very sad and disappointed if he was such a bad loser.

It wasn't like Obama was getting up one day starting to say "Bill Clinton was not the President everyone seems to think he was", at least not as far as I recall, but that Bill Clinton started playing an active role in the election campaign, e.g. with the Jackson remark, which Obama's campaign reacted to.

This primary was pretty much a give and take between Obama and Clinton. If you want to call the one adviser Rove-like, it would only be fair to do the same with the other, though in my opinion both were still lengths away from that person you name there.

You are always blaming Obama supporters of being blinded by their candidate and too biased to see fault with what Obama does or says, yet you are always picking on what Obama does wrong, where he might make a mistake, where he isn't clear enough or where he might be or is contradicting himself or shifting from his positions.
On the other hand, like you say that many Obama supporters aren't addressing those issues I don't recall any incident where you really showed the same objective analysis in regards to one of the Clintons. When the Obama supporters come to defend him, you come to defend the Clintons. That's really confusing for me.
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Old 06-28-2008, 04:46 PM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
You obviously have not done much looking into how campaigns are run.

Print all the smileys you want
or do a little investigative work.
Please, deep. If there is anything that's obvious around here, it's that it's impossible for you to objectively discuss Obama. I wouldn't call it hatred, but you obviously have some extremely strong biases against him. And given some of the angles the Clinton campaign has tried on Obama, I find it laughable that you're trying to point the "Rove" finger squarely at Obama. Were I a more religious man I might refer to removing the log from your eye before helping with the speck in your brother's.*

*Note that I do admit that the Obama campaign responded with jabs in kind to the jabs from the Clinton campaign. Both sides are guilty of... less than lofty campaigning.
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Old 06-28-2008, 07:02 PM   #315
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I don't recall anyone ever saying McCain would have to kiss their ass before they'd support him.

Also, I don't remember an ex-President of the United States (or anyone with similar standing and influence in the republican party) saying such things about McCain.
You do realize that article is hearsay from a tabloid, right?
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Old 06-28-2008, 07:06 PM   #316
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The Telegraph is not a tabloid. Nevertheless, without identified sources, who knows.

Then again we have this:

Quote:
Joe Klein, the author of Primary Colours, a fictionalised account of Mr Clinton's 1992 election, who has known the former president for 20 years, said he also heard that he was "very, very bitter", from people who have spoken with him.

"It's time for him to get over it or go off and do his charitable work. He knows the rules of the road. What's going on now is kind of strange. I think his behaviour is really, really shocking."
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Old 06-28-2008, 08:41 PM   #317
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The Telegraph is not a tabloid.
Well, it may not be a tabloid like other tabloids, but it has published many tabloid stories over the years.
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Old 06-29-2008, 12:30 AM   #318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
I read the whole article

not just the "kiss my ass" part

the article is speculation if Clinton ever even said that, it is only a tabloid grabbing headline.


There were several Democratic Candidates running, and they all had the decency to treat Bill Clinton, a popular former Democratic president with the respect he earned.

Only one candidate, with a Rove-style adviser, heading his campaign. sank to distorting and lying about Bill Clinton's record.
Perhaps Bill Clinton isn't the only one who's bitter?

I know if Clinton had won the nomination, I wouldn't be still stewing over it. And I'm supposedly an Obamaniac? Just sayin. . .
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Old 06-29-2008, 12:43 AM   #319
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Originally Posted by BonosSaint View Post
New York Times

June 27, 2008
Campaign Memo
For Obama, a Pragmatist’s Shift Toward the Center
By MICHAEL POWELL


Barack Obama has taken a stroll this week away from traditional liberal political positions, his path toward the political center marked by artful leaps and turns.
I've kind of felt that Obama will turn out to be much less liberal than a lot of his supporters think he's going to be. Obviously we expect that in the campaign--the move to the center--but I wouldn't be surprised if he governs that way too. After all this is a guy who has said he wants to have a Lincolnesque "cabinet of rivals", an idea that I really like a lot. It's actually this kind of thinking rather than his inspiring speeches that have made me an Obama admirer. (I think I've only heard him speak, maybe once, though I've read a lot of what he's said).
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Old 06-29-2008, 06:55 AM   #320
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I think it is wise to have a whole array of viewpoints to access when you govern.

And not that you asked, but I make a distinction between supporters and true believers, so I don't think all of his supporters are looking for something beyond what they see with their eyes wide open. I have respect for a lot of his supporters I know, including you.
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