US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #8

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Truman's peak unpopularity, 22% was achieved in January of 1952.

look at the 1951 inflation rate.

Truman's popularity was already below 30% by January 1951. Look at the 1950 inflation rate.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

and, naturally, there are a whole host of political issues that go into a presidential approval rating. the sinking of New Orleans had much to do with Bush's abysmal ratings as does the disaster in Iraq. likewise, the relative unpopularity of the stalemate of the Korean War had something to do with Truman's unpopularity, but it was also Truman's handling of the Korean War and his sacking of MacArthur that contributed to his 22%, as well as inflation and IRS scandals.

so, again, saying that Harry Truman is a hero because he suffered for prosecuting an unpopular war doesn't in any way create a parallel to GWB, it doesn't redeem the war from being at the very least horribly mismanaged and at worst another mistake that's lead to the situation with NoKo and 50+ years of troops stationed in Korea.

in fact, what actually was courageous about Truman was the sacking of MacArthur. would that GWB had sacked Rumsfeld ...

Most Americans don't considered the Korean war to have been a mistake despite the fact that they did in 1952. Ike was not elected to bring down inflation or end desegregation, he was elected to end the war in Korea. Were already well on the way for a GWB/Truman parallel no matter how much liberals fuss and fume at the idea.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

is there something wrong with a 5 year old understanding that, yes, sometimes a woman can love a woman or a man can love a man?

Why do you want to turn children gay? Why do you want to spread the homo agenda?

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

Truman's popularity was already below 30% by January 1951. Look at the 1950 inflation rate.

its okay. you can admit you're wrong. i won't trash you and taunt you over it (like you do to others).

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

Most Americans don't considered the Korean war to have been a mistake despite the fact that they did in 1952. Ike was not elected to bring down inflation or end desegregation, he was elected to end the war in Korea. Were already well on the way for a GWB/Truman parallel no matter how much liberals fuss and fume at the idea.

then or now? most Americans then considered the Korean War to have been terribly mismanaged, and most Americans now consider it to have turned out to be a stalemate that's lead to a dangerous situation along the 38th parallel. but it's history and we deal with it.

and most smart Americans know that proxy wars with the Soviet Union never go well.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Why do you want to turn children gay? Why do you want to spread the homo agenda?

i guess you're right. and i guess it's true -- that if you talk about gay people, you also have to talk about ass fucking, donut bumping, and strap-ons.

for gay people are only sex.

[Irvine511]

oh, look, the race tightens again. it's now a statistical tie.

Gallup Daily: McCain 48%, Obama 45%

[2861U2]

Good article by Glenn Beck:

NEW YORK (CNN) -- Campaigns are ugly. Watching the way politicians act makes you long for the respect and self-control of the Sopranos. Throughout, there are legitimate attacks and outright lies.

Every once in a while, I get a call on my radio show from someone telling me that Barack Obama is secretly a Muslim, who admitted it in an interview with George Stephanopoulos, and has a fake birth certificate. No, no, and no. As I tell them, there are legitimate reasons not to vote for Barack Obama, no need to make them up.

But the newest target is Sarah Palin. Let's take a quick look at just a fraction of what she has faced in her first few days as John McCain's choice for vice president.

"Sarah Palin believes God told her to go to war with Iraq!"

There has been some hard-core journalistic malpractice on this one. The Associated Press ran this headline about a speech she gave at her church: "Palin: Iraq war 'a task that is from God'"

In the story, they omit the first part of the sentence they're quoting along with the entire previous sentence for good measure.

Here are her actual words: "Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right. Also, for this country, that our leaders, our national leaders, are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that that plan is God's plan."

Palin is clearly praying that we're doing the right thing in Iraq, something sensible for an introspective woman of faith concerned about the lives of our troops to do. She's not saying that she just received a text message from heaven's BlackBerry ordering her to launch missiles. Sorry to disappoint you.

And for those of you who think politicians asking God for guidance is offensive, might I remind you of this famous politician's prayer:

"Give me the wisdom to do what is right and just. And make me an instrument of your will." --Barack Obama

"She has no experience!"

It's fair to assume that Barack Obama believed he was qualified to be in the White House when he announced he was running for president. At that point, he had been a U.S. Senator for 767 days. When Sarah Palin was announced as a vice presidential candidate, she had been the governor of Alaska for 634 days.

While I'm sure those extra 133 days were filled with personal discovery, I can't imagine anyone seriously trying to make the case that Obama is experienced and Palin isn't.

Unless, of course, you're Matt Damon, who said a Palin presidency would be a really "scary thing" because she has been "governor of Alaska for...for less than two years!" (Damon originally expressed his presidential preference for Obama in December 2006, when he had been a senator for less than two years.)

More importantly, Palin's career has been filled with executive experience. She's the only one of the four in this race who has run a business, town, and/or state (a state that gives her crucial energy experience in the middle of an energy crisis).

When Obama's campaign complains that Palin would be one heartbeat away from the presidency, they should consider that their candidate would be zero heartbeats away.

"But Obama is running a huge campaign -- Palin was just a small town mayor!"

Believe it or not, this one was actually trotted out by Obama himself.

"My understanding is, is that Gov. Palin's town of Wasilla has, I think, 50 employees. We've got 2,500 in this campaign. I think the budget is maybe $12 million a year. We have a budget of about three times that just for the month."

Apparently, Barack missed that she's become the governor of Alaska in the interim. Why would he compare his current duties with her former duties?

Well, since he announced his candidacy, Barack Obama has raised about $22 million a month. That's a large organization for sure, unless you are directly comparing it to Sarah Palin, who is handling state revenues that are about 61 times as large, or more than $1.3 billion per month.

"Palin only supports abstinence to be taught in sex-ed!"

This claim is usually followed by a super classy comment about her daughter and the use of contraception, but the premise is false. Palin hasn't said she doesn't want condoms discussed in sex-ed, calling their discussion "relatively benign."

"I'm pro-contraception, and I think kids who may not hear about it at home should hear about it in other avenues. So I am not anti-contraception. But, yeah, abstinence is another alternative that should be discussed with kids. I don't have a problem with that," Palin said. Hers is hardly an extreme point of view in America today.

"If she cares about children with special needs, then why did she cut spending on them by 62 percent?"

Actually, Palin almost tripled their funding in only three years from $26,900 per student to $73,840 per student.

Incidentally, the amount of government money you spend on a specific group doesn't equal the amount you care for that group, but that's another story for another column.

All of these represent just a small percentage of the bizarre collection of claims being thrown at Palin by her opponents and some in the media -- who are desperately hoping something will stick. I leave you with my favorite so far: The Internet rumors that she harbors racism against Eskimos. If true, she sure has a strange way of expressing it -- her husband, Todd, is half Yupik Inuit Eskimo.

To balance that out, she must really love his other half.

[BVS]

Thanks Glen for summing up everything we figured out last week

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

its okay. you can admit you're wrong. i won't trash you and taunt you over it (like you do to others).

I think you need to explain that to yourself.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

I think you need to explain that to yourself.

thanks Mr. Obama Tusnami.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

then or now? most Americans then considered the Korean War to have been terribly mismanaged, and most Americans now consider it to have turned out to be a stalemate that's lead to a dangerous situation along the 38th parallel. but it's history and we deal with it.

and most smart Americans know that proxy wars with the Soviet Union never go well.

The Gallup poll at the time(1952) asked if Americans thought the Korean war had been a mistake for the United States to have become involved in. Only 37% said that the United States becoming involved in the war was not a mistake. Today, 2008, the majority of Americans believe that the United States coming to the aid of South Korea 50 years ago was not a mistake and continue to fully support going to war to defend South Korea.

South Korea today is one of the wealthiest countries on the planet and is very important to global trade. This would not be the case had the United States let North Korea swallow the country in 1950. Nearly everyone today realizes that US military intervention in Korea was the correct course of action.

Most smart Americans realize that the US policy of intervention and engagement around the world throughout the Cold War helped to prevent the Soviet Unions Expansion, detered another World War, and eventually helped lead to the end of the Soviet Union.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

oh, look, the race tightens again. it's now a statistical tie.

Gallup Daily: McCain 48%, Obama 45%

The only difference is that where as Obama had average lead like this throughout the summer, its McCain that is now on top.

McCain is only behind by 2 points now in Washington State.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

Most smart Americans realize that the US policy of intervention and engagement around the world throughout the Cold War helped to prevent the Soviet Unions Expansion, detered another World War, and eventually helped lead to the end of the Soviet Union.

and most Americans who have any grasp of history and nuance know that not every action undertaken by the United States was successful, or necessary, and that there were disastrous operations and even whole wars that happened during the Cold War and we are still dealing with the blowback today.

it's a foolish American who looks at the end result, the fall of the Soviet Union, and retroactively justifies everything that has happened and retroactively grafts success onto every operation, battle, or policy.

[U2democrat]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

The only difference is that where as Obama had average lead like this throughout the summer, its McCain that is now on top.

McCain is only behind by 2 points now in Washington State.

Obama has also increased his lead in Ohio.


These polls are going to go back and forth between now and Nov 4 barring any unforseen circumstances, the only polls I truly give a damn about start at 7pm EST November 4, 2008.

[U2Fanatic4ever]

Originally Posted by U2democrat

Obama has also increased his lead in Ohio.


These polls are going to go back and forth between now and Nov 4 barring any unforseen circumstances, the only polls I truly give a damn about start at 7pm EST November 4, 2008.

yep, me too.. I'll just wait until then.

[2861U2]

Originally Posted by U2democrat

Obama has also increased his lead in Ohio.

According to who? RCP had them tied a few days ago in Ohio, but now McCain is a couple points up.

[U2democrat]

Originally Posted by 2861U2

According to who? RCP had them tied a few days ago in Ohio, but now McCain is a couple points up.

Obama led McCain 49-44 percent, according to the Quinnipiac
University poll. Last month, they were about even.

Poll: Obama opens up lead in Ohio - BostonHerald.com


Basically, none of these polls are worth squat right now

[Dreadsox]

You just can't write this shite:

Earlier in the week, in Columbia, Missouri, Biden urged a paraplegic state official to stand up to be recognized.

"Chuck, stand up, let the people see you," Biden shouted to State Senator Chuck Graham, before realizing, to his horror, that Graham uses a wheelchair. "Oh, God love ya," Biden said. "What am I talking about?"

Biden living up to his gaffe-prone reputation - International Herald Tribune

[Harry Vest]

An interesting look at the media's reaction to the Palin pick...

Why They Hate Her