US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #8

[anitram]

Originally Posted by 2861U2

Gallup has consistently had the Democrats winning big in Congress, but it's now very close.

This is just the height of idiocy.

National polls are completely meaningless in congressional races! Congress could have a 1% approval rating but locally, most people think it's not THEIR congressman/woman that's the problem.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by 2861U2

They would lose. Obama has consistently said that he picked Biden because he's the best person he could think of to help him govern. If he tossed him out and grabbed Hillary, he would be abandoning the supposed good of the country just to help him win. It would be a very low move, though I'm not convinced it won't happen yet.

Did you even pay attention to the rest of the rumor?

[BVS]

Originally Posted by 2861U2

I can't find it on youtube at the moment, but Obama just released an ad mocking McCain for not knowing how to use a computer or send an email.

For all the supposedly mean ads that McCain has put out recently, you guys can't possibly think this new ad isn't idiotic as well.

Sounds lame, but can't really comment on it without seeing it...

[Strongbow]

Wow, McCain is now only behind by 2 points in Washington State now based on the new Rasmussen poll there. He was behind in that same poll by 12 points in August! If this trend continues, Washington State could be a toss up state. Thats 11 Electoral votes that the Democrats cannot afford to lose.

No new polls yet for Oregon which is a more conservative state than Washington.

RealClearPolitics - Election 2008 - Washington: McCain vs. Obama

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Diemen

Wrong. It's questioning the integrity of forum members who apparently have absolutely no problem with a candidate openly lying to the American people about his opponent.

Sorry, I did not know the forum rules allowed questioning the integrity of forum members for any reason.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by 2861U2

I can't find it on youtube at the moment, but Obama just released an ad mocking McCain for not knowing how to use a computer or send an email.

For all the supposedly mean ads that McCain has put out recently, you guys can't possibly think this new ad isn't idiotic as well.

the second you denounce the sleaze and outright lies of the McCain campaign,

then we'll talk about this personal but truthful ad.

[Irvine511]

.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

and Truman was unpopular not because of the Korean War but *despite* it. but, yes, let's keep up the endless Truman comparisons because it's easier than actually thinking.

Actually that is incorrect. Turmans approval rating did not consistently stay below his disapproval rating until after the Chinese entered the Korean war and US casualties increased. Its generally well known that the single biggest issue effecting Trumans approval rating was the Korean War. His approval rating rating was in the high 40s before the Chinese intervention, but quickly dropped over the next 8 months to the mid-20s and stayed there for most of the rest of his time in office. He got back to a 32% approval rating before he left office in January 1953.

By 1952, only 37% of Americans thought that US military intervention in Korea was NOT a mistake. Notice though that the majority of Americans today think that the military intervention in Korea was indeed necessary and continue to support the United States defense committment to South Korea.

[Strongbow]

Was Joe Biden "Lying" when he said the following things?

YouTube - Even Joe Biden does not believe in Barack Obama!

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

Actually that is incorrect. Turmans approval rating did not consistently stay below his disapproval rating until after the Chinese entered the Korean war and US casualties increased. Its generally well known that the single biggest issue effecting Trumans approval rating was the Korean War. His approval rating rating was in the high 40s before the Chinese intervention, but quickly dropped over the next 8 months to the mid-20s and stayed there for most of the rest of his time in office. He got back to a 32% approval rating before he left office in January 1953.

By 1952, only 37% of Americans thought that US military intervention in Korea was NOT a mistake. Notice though that the majority of Americans today think that the military intervention in Korea was indeed necessary and continue to support the United States defense committment to South Korea.

sorry, that's too simplistic. Truman's war-related unpopularity was due to his removal of MacArthur from command of the Korean War due to MacArthur's absolutely insane idea of invading the North and being excited about nuking China. Truman rightly sacked the great WW2 hero, and rightly so, and at a cost to his popularity.

there was also rapid inflation at the time and his desegregation of the armed forces caused him much antipathy from racist Southern Democrats. there was also a huge IRS scandal leading to the firing of 250 employees.

so while it's easy to say "Iraq has made GWB unpopular just like the Korean War made HST unpopular; therefore, GWB will be vindicated by history just like HST," it's also totally fatuous to say so.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

Was Joe Biden "Lying" when he said the following things?

why don't you ask Joe Biden?

in the meantime, we'll continue to focus on the actual lies coming out of the McCain campaign -- Obama wants to teach sex to 5 year olds, he'll raise your taxes if you earn more than $42K, Palin was against the Bridge to Nowhere -- that are on actual issues.

enjoy your sideshow!

[diamond]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

why don't you ask Joe Biden?

in the meantime, we'll continue to focus on the actual lies ..., Palin was against the Bridge to Nowhere -- that are on actual issues.

enjoy your sideshow!

oh bother. :eyeroll:

"When it mattered, Gov. Palin stood up to Sen. Stevens and dealt the Bridge to Nowhere its death blow. This is something the U.S. Congress and senators Obama and Biden failed to do on multiple occasions.

And while it’s true that John McCain, unlike his running mate, has always opposed pork-barrel earmarks, Sarah Palin, unlike Obama and Biden, did the right thing when it counted most and stopped an egregious example of earmark abuse. And now, of course, Palin has joined McCain in calling for an end to earmarks.

Isn’t it better to come around to the right position than to keep on being wrong?"

<>

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

sorry, that's too simplistic. Truman's war-related unpopularity was due to his removal of MacArthur from command of the Korean War due to MacArthur's absolutely insane idea of invading the North and being excited about nuking China. Truman rightly sacked the great WW2 hero, and rightly so, and at a cost to his popularity.

Sorry, but that is even more simplistic. Your forgetting that US approval for the war itself dropped to 37%. There was no single other issue that Americans were more upset about at the time than the war in Korea and they blamed Truman for it. Yes, his firing of MacArthur was part of that briefly, but it was far from being the only thing.

there was also rapid inflation at the time and his desegregation of the armed forces caused him much antipathy from racist Southern Democrats. there was also a huge IRS scandal leading to the firing of 250 employees.

None of those issues comes even remotely close to having the impact that the Korean War had on Trumans popularity.

Oh and lets take a look at the inflation rate during that time:

1950 1.09%
1951 7.88%
1952 2.29%
1953 0.82%

Yes, 1951 you have a bit of a spike in inflation(nothing compared to the Carter Years), but the other years have historically very low rates of inflation. This definitely did not have anywhere near the impact that the Korean war did on Trumans popularity.

Ike was elected on a platform to end the war in Korea in 1952, not to reduce inflation or end desegregation. The Gallup polls show Truman's popularity heading south in relation to events in the Korean war. The Gallup poll also shows that most Americans thought the Korean war was a mistake in 1952, and naturally Truman got the blame for the war.

[Irvine511]

and, naturally, there are a whole host of political issues that go into a presidential approval rating. the sinking of New Orleans had much to do with Bush's abysmal ratings as does the disaster in Iraq. likewise, the relative unpopularity of the stalemate of the Korean War had something to do with Truman's unpopularity, but it was also Truman's handling of the Korean War and his sacking of MacArthur that contributed to his 22%, as well as inflation and IRS scandals.

so, again, saying that Harry Truman is a hero because he suffered for prosecuting an unpopular war doesn't in any way create a parallel to GWB, it doesn't redeem the war from being at the very least horribly mismanaged and at worst another mistake that's lead to the situation with NoKo and 50+ years of troops stationed in Korea.

in fact, what actually was courageous about Truman was the sacking of MacArthur. would that GWB had sacked Rumsfeld ...

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

1951 7.88%


Yes, 1951 you have a bit of a spike in inflation(nothing compared to the Carter Years), but the other years have historically very low rates of inflation. This definitely did not have anywhere near the impact that the Korean war did on Trumans popularity.

Truman's peak unpopularity, 22% was achieved in January of 1952.

look at the 1951 inflation rate.

[2861U2]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

in the meantime, we'll continue to focus on the actual lies coming out of the McCain campaign -- Obama wants to teach sex to 5 year olds

I've yet to hear how this is incorrect. I've read part of the bill. It talks about the different body parts, their names, how people have parts that "feel good when touched," and that there are gay people that attracted to people of the same sex. He wants to teach this to very, very young children. That's a fact. I don't see a lie.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by 2861U2

I've read part of the bill.

You might want to try and read ALL of it. Not just the portions they post on Rush websites.

Your understanding of it is just sad...

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by 2861U2

I've yet to hear how this is incorrect. I've read part of the bill. It talks about the different body parts, their names, how people have parts that "feel good when touched," and that there are gay people that attracted to people of the same sex. He wants to teach this to very, very young children. That's a fact. I don't see a lie.

dude, you can go back and read earlier posts on this topic.

it's all deemed "age appropriate" and in kindergarten it focuses on what is and what is not appropriate touching.

if you want to slam Obama from wanting kids to learn how to protect themselves from sexual predators.

is there something wrong with a 5 year old understanding that, yes, sometimes a woman can love a woman or a man can love a man?

i once had a four year old tell me this.

[anitram]

Yep, the 527s really have been unleashed.

YouTube - Planned Parenthood Action Fund - Sexual Abuse

[Irvine511]

i remember being so happy that Obama and McCain were going to be the nominees. i thought we'd have a serious discussion on serious issues.

guess not.

thanks, Rovians!