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Old 09-09-2008, 10:13 PM   #441
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NY Gov. Patterson is now claiming the McCain campaign of using racism because "community organizer" is supposedly interchangeable with the word "black."



I know he's not a part of the Obama campaign, but they're having a really bad few days. I think the wheels are coming off the bus. I sense desperation, and they have yet to figure out how to go after Palin.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:14 PM   #442
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Do you approve of McCain's scurrilous ad?
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:15 PM   #443
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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
NY Gov. Patterson is now claiming the McCain campaign of using racism because "community organizer" is supposedly interchangeable with the word "black."



I know he's not a part of the Obama campaign, but they're having a really bad few days. I think the wheels are coming off the bus. I sense desperation, and they have yet to figure out how to go after Palin.
are you goutraged by the misleading drudge headline?
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:16 PM   #444
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John McCain releases that ad, and we're talking about Obama using a joking reference to McCain's own words to convey a point? Really?

This is honestly the first time during this campaign I've lost respect for McCain. A lot of respect, at that.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:17 PM   #445
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
NY Gov. Patterson is now claiming the McCain campaign of using racism because "community organizer" is supposedly interchangeable with the word "black."



I know he's not a part of the Obama campaign, but they're having a really bad few days. I think the wheels are coming off the bus. I sense desperation, and they have yet to figure out how to go after Palin.
Desperation? Because of Governor Patterson's statement and Drudge's headline?

Honestly, I think McCain's ad shows a huge amount of desperation.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:28 PM   #446
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It is a very poor ad that they should pull ASAP.

I did read some of the legislation he signed. There was a discussion in one of these threads about teaching abstinence in schools. It was referred to as backwards thinking, however it is part of the legislation that Obama signed.

All public elementary, junior high, and senior high
20 school classes that teach sex education and discuss sexual
21 activity or behavior intercourse shall emphasize that
22 abstinence is an effective method of preventing unintended is
23 the expected norm in that abstinence from sexual intercourse
24 is the only protection that is 100% effective against
25 unwanted teenage pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases,
26 and HIV acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS) when
27 transmitted sexually.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:31 PM   #447
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The details of that legislation (the part about sex ed):

Quote:
'Nobody's suggesting that kindergartners are going to be getting information about sex in the way that we think about it,' Obama said. 'If they ask a teacher 'where do babies come from,' that providing information that the fact is that it's not a stork is probably not an unhealthy thing. Although again, that's going to be determined on a case by case basis by local communities and local school boards.'"

In addition to local schools informing kindergarteners that babies do not come from the stork, the state legislation Obama supported in Illinois, which contained an "opt out" provision for parents, also envisioned teaching kindergarteners about "inappropriate touching," according to Obama's presidential campaign. Despite Obama's support, the legislation was not enacted.
What a perverse ad McCain approved.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:34 PM   #448
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEdge U2JT View Post
It is a very poor ad that they should pull ASAP.

I did read some of the legislation he signed. There was a discussion in one of these threads about teaching abstinence in schools. It was referred to as backwards thinking, however it is part of the legislation that Obama signed.

All public elementary, junior high, and senior high
20 school classes that teach sex education and discuss sexual
21 activity or behavior intercourse shall emphasize that
22 abstinence is an effective method of preventing unintended is
23 the expected norm in that abstinence from sexual intercourse
24 is the only protection that is 100% effective against
25 unwanted teenage pregnancy, sexually transmitted diseases,
26 and HIV acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS) when
27 transmitted sexually.

Is your information correct?

is that the language from the bill that Obama got passed?


Obama has said it was a bill to inform kindergardeners about sexual abuse so they would be protected?

Why would anyone be against that?

Did it receive an unanimous vote when it passed?
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:35 PM   #449
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEdge U2JT View Post
There was a discussion in one of these threads about teaching abstinence in schools. It was referred to as backwards thinking, however it is part of the legislation that Obama signed.
[/I]
I never said abstinence along with comprehensive sexual education was backwards thinking, in fact I think we agreed on that. Don't put words in my mouth. The question was would this type of sex ed fall into Palin's definition of "explicit"? From everything I've read regarding Christian Conservative views of education this would in fact fall under "explicit".
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:37 PM   #450
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The actual wording of the age-appropriate sex ed provision:

Quote:
The program established under this Act shall include, but not be limited to, the following major educational areas as a basis for curricula in all elementary and secondary schools in this State: human ecology and health, human growth and development, the emotional, psychological, physiological, hygienic and social responsibilities of family life, including sexual abstinence and prevention of unintended pregnancy, prevention and control of disease, including age appropriate instruction in grades K through 12 on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV, public and environmental health, consumer health, safety education and disaster survival, mental health and illness, personal health habits, alcohol, drug use, and abuse including the medical and legal ramifications of alcohol, drug, and tobacco use, abuse during pregnancy, sexual abstinence, tobacco, nutrition, and dental health.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:38 PM   #451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
The details of that legislation (the part about sex ed):



What a perverse ad McCain approved.
I know this is not your best legal research.



(but, then again - you are not billing)
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:40 PM   #452
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Wording of the sexual abuse provision:

Quote:
11) (8) Course material and instruction shall teach pupils to not make unwanted physical and verbal sexual advances and how to say no to unwanted sexual advances and shall include information about verbal, physical, and visual sexual harassment, including without limitation nonconsensual sexual advances, nonconsensual physical sexual contact, and rape by an acquaintance. The course material and instruction shall contain methods of preventing sexual assault by an acquaintance, including exercising good judgment and avoiding behavior that impairs one's judgment. The course material and instruction shall emphasize personal accountability and respect for others and shall also encourage youth to resist negative peer pressure. The course material and instruction shall inform pupils of the potential legal consequences of sexual assault by an acquaintance. Specifically, pupils shall be advised that it is unlawful to touch an intimate part of another person as specified in the Criminal Code of 1961.
I do nothing but read legislation pretty much all day every day.

Obama exactly correctly explained these provisions.

John McCain lied. Period.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:40 PM   #453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Se7en View Post
let's get some good goutrage going over a conservative site twisting words, starting rumors, and misleading readers!! yes!!

well, metioning the word "lipstick" is fair game, after all sarah brought it up at the convention.

post gop convention biden used it first, now obama-i think they were advised to-obama in a meaner way than joe.

at the end of the day, these guys look like they are picking on a woman, and that is not smart-plus they're losing.

if this behavior continues in a few more days they'll be putting on lipstick on their train wreck of a campaign as they continue to slide in the polls.

<>
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:41 PM   #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
I know this is not your best legal research.
Enjoy the legal research, deep.

Maybe you'll surprise me and actually call McCain out on this. Anybody who does not after reading that statutory language is really out in la-la land.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:42 PM   #455
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Originally Posted by 2861U2 View Post
NY Gov. Patterson is now claiming the McCain campaign of using racism because "community organizer" is supposedly interchangeable with the word "black."



I know he's not a part of the Obama campaign, but they're having a really bad few days. I think the wheels are coming off the bus. I sense desperation, and they have yet to figure out how to go after Palin.
Well the majority of community organizers are inner-city, poor, and minority groups.

We're in the wake of a convention bump, it would be pre-mature to start predicting the coming off of wheels, especially based on this.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:46 PM   #456
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEdge U2JT View Post
It is a very poor ad that they should pull ASAP.

I did read some of the legislation he signed. There was a discussion in one of these threads about teaching abstinence in schools. It was referred to as backwards thinking, however it is part of the legislation that Obama signed.
As far as I understood it, it wasn't "teaching abstinence in school is backwards", but "teaching abstinence only in school is backwards", which is an important difference.

I would clearly say schools should teach sex ed in a way that conveys the message "Sex at a young age is absolutely not necessary, and no contraceptive is as safe as not doing it at all."
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:50 PM   #457
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
Is your information correct?

is that the language from the bill that Obama got passed?


Obama has said it was a bill to inform kindergardeners about sexual abuse so they would be protected?

Why would anyone be against that?

Did it receive an unanimous vote when it passed?

Yes it is correct. He is a link to the info. Regarding sex ed....it does say K-12, so according to the legislation, they could teach sex ed to kids in Kindergarten. Not that the ad was really fair but it does bring up a good point. I also dont agree with the language of K-12 for sex ed. It should have been age appropriate. If you look at the link, it appears that the bill originally had it as 6 -12 but it was changed to K. That makes even less sense.

Each class or course in comprehensive sex
14 education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall
15 include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted
16 infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread
17 of HIV AIDS. Nothing in this Section prohibits instruction in
18 sanitation, hygiene or traditional courses in biology.



Illinois General Assembly - Full Text of SB0099
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:52 PM   #458
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Not that the ad was really fair but it does bring up a good point. I also dont agree with the language of K-12 for sex ed. It should have been age appropriate.
IT SAYS AGE APPROPRIATE RIGHT THERE IN THE PROVISION.

This is seriously maddening.

I give up.

Section 27-9.2(a)

Quote:
whenever such courses of instruction are provided in any of grades K through 12, then such courses also shall include age appropriate instruction on ....
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:53 PM   #459
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anitram View Post
Wording of the sexual abuse provision:



I do nothing but read legislation pretty much all day every day.

Obama exactly correctly explained these provisions.

John McCain lied. Period.


Yeah right,Obama will say all that until he gets voted in...
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:55 PM   #460
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Quote:
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The actual wording of the age-appropriate sex ed provision:
I have a son in Kindergarten and another in 1st grade. There is NO sex Education, IMO, as defined in the paragraph listed that is age appropriate for either of my boys. HIV? Alcohol? Drug Use? I know is says, "age appropriate" but I think that this is something that should have been very specific in the ages where this is to be taught and it should be a hell of a lot older that a 5 year old child in Kindergarten.
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