US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #8

[U2DMfan]

Originally Posted by TheEdge U2JT

That said, I stick by my assessment that how they come across to the American people will be as important as what they say. Case in point from the past. Kennedy v. Nixon. People watching the debate said Kennedy won. He was confident, good-looking, etc. Nixon was sweating and lacking the Kennedy swagger. For those listen in radio, it was a landslide win for Nixon.

Again, I'm looking forward to watching this one

Agreed, although it's surely a different era, I think feelings/emotional gut reaction are just as important as most issues to a lot of voters.

[anitram]

Originally Posted by TheEdge U2JT

True. Dumb statement but I think you know what she meant.

Even if she meant that her family knows better than anyone else's what the impact of war is (as opposed to saying it's the only family who understands), it would be an appallingly insulting statement.

I'm assuming that's what she meant and it doesn't really make it any better in my eyes. In fact I find it personally insulting.

[TheEdge U2JT]

Originally Posted by U2DMfan

Agreed, although it's surely a different era, I think feelings/emotional gut reaction are just as important as most issues to a lot of voters.

I agree with you, it was a very different era.

I live in Los Angels but travel to AZ, NM, NV and people I meet are different in all these places. What I find most important here in LA might be different for someone in Davenport, IA or Lincoln, AK. I guess it will come down to what the people in CO, OH, NV, NM, and FL think. I know CA is done. The election day map will show the entire state in red with the exception of LA and SF but that will be more than enough for the Dems.

[TheEdge U2JT]

Originally Posted by anitram

Even if she meant that her family knows better than anyone else's what the impact of war is (as opposed to saying it's the only family who understands), it would be an appallingly insulting statement.

I'm assuming that's what she meant and it doesn't really make it any better in my eyes. In fact I find it personally insulting.

What, no benefit of the doubt?

Would it be different if it was Michelle Obama on that clip? Remember, she got nailed for the "1st time I have been proud of my country" statement. It was a poor choice of words on her part. Did you feel the same about her? As an American did you find her words insulting?

I would think having a father that spent 5 years in a Vietnam prison while serving his country, in the same way as being a wounded Vet like John Kerry, you would afford some grace.

It does not always happen, obviously. But, IMO, it doesn't make it right.

[deep]

Originally Posted by TheEdge U2JT

The election day map will show the entire state in red with the exception of LA and SF but that will be more than enough for the Dems.

Red/ Blue area maps are really pointless.

In Nevada. if one got all the voters in only Vegas and Reno 5% of the most populated area, they would probably get 95 % of the entire population.

If area is what matters
than Russia is the winner.

Voters should be all that matters.

I have been voting in CA since the 70s

and my vote for President has neven been important.

Right now I believe only voters in Ohio, NH, Colorado and perhaps Virginia have any real say in Nov 2008.

[anitram]

Originally Posted by TheEdge U2JT

What, no benefit of the doubt?

Well what do you think she meant to say? Maybe you can clarify.

[Dreadsox]

I think she meant to say that they understand the price of war. Her great grandfather fought in WWII, was away from home for many years, and died the day he came home. Her fathers captivity, torture, and eventual release, paid a price on his first family, and impacted his physical abilities for the rest of his life. Her grandfather made wartime decisions with bombing, that could have been dropped on his captive son. So, yes, her father is better suited than any of the candidates, as is her family, in the price that war has on American lives.

[TheEdge U2JT]

Originally Posted by deep

Red/ Blue area maps are really pointless.

In Nevada. if one got all the voters in only Vegas and Reno 5% of the most populated area, they would probably get 95 % of the entire population.

If area is what matters
than Russia is the winner.

Voters should be all that matters.

I have been voting in CA since the 70s

and my vote for President has neven been important.

Right now I believe only voters in Ohio, NH, Colorado and perhaps Virginia have any real say in Nov 2008.

Thats why our all or nothing electoral system sucks.

I feel a system like the one used for the nominations would be better. Getting electorates based on the percentage of the vote. The Republicans would not be locked out of places like CA and NY and the Democrats would have middle America in play. All votes would be important not the ones from a just a few states. Voter turn out might be better if everyone's vote really did matter. It will never happen though. I dont think either side would be willing to give up is strong holds.

[anitram]

Originally Posted by Dreadsox

I think she meant to say that they understand the price of war.

Then she should have spoken in terms of the candidates and not generally.

There are many (thousands?) of other families in the US who understand the price of war as well as her family does.

And millions more around the world who I believe arguably understand the price of war even better.

[Dreadsox]

I did not realize she was an experienced politician.

I for one do not believe McCain's surge in the polls has a lot to do with the convention. It has to do with the attacks and mudslinging. Currently, the more moderate voters are being pushed their way do to the treatment of people not running for the office.

[TheEdge U2JT]

Originally Posted by Dreadsox

I think she meant to say that they understand the price of war. Her grandfather fought in WWII, was away from home for many years, and died the day he came home. Her fathers captivity, torture, and eventual release, paid a price on his first family, and impacted his physical abilities for the rest of his life. So, yes, her father is better suited than any of the candidates, as is her family, in the price that war has on American lives.

I agree with your assessment. They are a military family that has suffered physically and emotionally due to the service of our country. I think she was speaking with regards the their family's perspective on service and sacrifice.

[anitram]

Originally Posted by Dreadsox

I did not realize she was an experienced politician.

Who said she was? She wasn't making a political statement nor asserting a policy directive.

I'm not sure what experience you believe one needs in order not to make statements like that?

She is an adult "child" who is being sent out on the campaign trail. Which is why I said if they want her to play that role, they should give her acceptable talking points.

[Dreadsox]

Then let's make adds and put it out there on the TV. And the Right can put out ADD's with Obama and his wife with their slips and we will not debate the issues, and you can bet your sweet ass, that the voters will go the republican way when the mud slinging is done.

[anitram]

I think the way you throw around "mud slinging" and similar overreactive phrases, they've really lost all of their shock value.

Nobody is mud slinging here, it's an observation which struck me as particularly irritating since it's always the Republicans who act as if they hold the trademark for patriotic virtue.

[TheEdge U2JT]

Originally Posted by anitram

Then she should have spoken in terms of the candidates and not generally.

There are many (thousands?) of other families in the US who understand the price of war as well as her family does.

And millions more around the world who I believe arguably understand the price of war even better.

And Michelle Obama should have spoken with regards to be proud to be an American. Or proud to live in a country where the efforts of men like MLK have allowed her husband aspire to become President. Not this is the 1st time I have been proud of my country.


This kind of Gotch politics does nothing but muddy the waters when we all know better. "But you said 'My Muslim Faith.' I heard you say it. I saw it on YouTube!"

[anitram]

Originally Posted by TheEdge U2JT

And Michelle Obama should have spoken with regards to be proud to be an American. Or proud to live in a country where the efforts of men like MLK have allowed her husband aspire to become President. Not this is the 1st time I have been proud of my country.

McCain said he didn't really love his country until he was a POW, so what? Did anybody make ads of that? No, because it's as dumb as the ones against Michelle (which by the way the right jumped all over).

There is no gotcha politics here as I don't think anybody is making ads or writing articles about this. I brought it up because I saw it on YouTube and thought it was a dumb thing to say. Who's saying "gotcha" here? I don't see anybody pushing for this to be an issue.

As an aside, I also found it incredibly irritating when Laura Bush said that "nobody" suffers as much as George Bush does over this war. It's insulting to people who have lost others. Pointing out the insensitivity of a statement isn't mud slinging or playing gotcha politics.

[deep]

Originally Posted by Dreadsox

I think she meant to say that they understand the price of war. Her great grandfather fought in WWII, was away from home for many years, and died the day he came home. Her fathers captivity, torture, and eventual release, paid a price on his first family, and impacted his physical abilities for the rest of his life. Her grandfather made wartime decisions with bombing, that could have been dropped on his captive son. So, yes, her father is better suited than any of the candidates, as is her family, in the price that war has on American lives.

But lets not forget that Obama has the military service question covered

Mr Obama was asked by George Stephanopoulos of ABC's "This Week" programme whether he'd ever thought about military service and replied: "You know, I actually did. I had to sign up for Selective Service [a means of conscription in case of war] when I graduated from high school.

"And I was growing up in Hawaii. And I have friends whose parents were in the military. There are a lot of Army, military bases there.

"And I actually always thought of the military as an ennobling and, you know, honourable option. But keep in mind that I graduated in 1979. The Vietnam War had come to an end. We weren't engaged in an active military conflict at that point. And so, it's not an option that I ever decided to pursue."

I have not read his two memoirs
but friends that have do not remember Obama talking about his desire to be in the military service


And please keep in mind that is was 1979 when Obama graduated, the action was over

if it was 1970 and the boys were coming home in flag draped coffins,
Obama would have been fist in line to sign up for a "dumb" war?

[Dreadsox]

I have not attacked you personally, I made a point. Overreactive? How about you cut the personal observations of my postings out and respond to the content?

Do you believe going after his daughter for the statement she made is going to help Obama or not?

Do you believe that the gains of the last week are due to the Convention? Or could it be the blogosphere rumors about Palin and her family are taking their toll?

The point I made over a week ago is coming true. The center will move right when families are attacked.

[anitram]

Originally Posted by Dreadsox

Do you believe going after his daughter for the statement she made is going to help Obama or not?

Can you point out who is going after her?

Have there been published articles in major news sources? Reports on CNN, NBC and the like? Ads put out by the Obama campaign? By a 527?

[deep]

Originally Posted by anitram

She is an adult "child" who is being sent out on the campaign trail. Which is why I said if they want her to play that role, they should give her acceptable talking points.

Well,

at least she did not say,

"I am a Muslim"
or

"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states? I think one left to go. Alaska and Hawaii, I was not allowed to go to even though I really wanted to visit, but my staff would not justify it."