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Old 09-09-2008, 09:11 AM   #321
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Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
I noticed you skipped over this part, Sting. Perhaps because the answers are: none, nothing and very little?
Not really any different for Tim Kaine or Governor Clinton prior to him running for President.
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Old 09-09-2008, 09:26 AM   #322
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The fact that Obama did not pick Kaine is irrelevant.


except that it is.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:25 AM   #323
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Don't look now Boo boo but McCain has opened up a 15 point lead among Independents:

McCain Now Winning Majority of Independents

<>
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:37 AM   #324
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Don't look now Boo boo but McCain has opened up a 15 point lead among Independents:

McCain Now Winning Majority of Independents

<>


i still want you.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:47 AM   #325
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How about, given that:

1.Sting feels that the fact that Obama didn't pick Kaine is irrelevant and that just the consideration of Kaine merits discussion.

2.Everyone else feels that the fact that Obama DID NOT pick Kaine illustrates that Obama judged Kaine to not be the best pick for VP and therefore any other discussion of Kaine's qualifications or preparedness to be VP are irrelevant.

we all just agree that no common ground is going to be found on this topic.

Because we're just going in circles right now.

"Obama didn't pick Kaine, so it doesn't matter!"

"But Kaine was a finalist, so it does matter!"

"But Obama didn't pick Kaine, so it doesn't matter!"

"But Kaine was a finalist, so it does matter!"

That's basically what's being said here.

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Old 09-09-2008, 10:53 AM   #326
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Originally Posted by namkcuR View Post
How about, given that:

1.Sting feels that the fact that Obama didn't pick Kaine is irrelevant and that just the consideration of Kaine merits discussion.

2.Everyone else feels that the fact that Obama DID NOT pick Kaine illustrates that Obama judged Kaine to not be the best pick for VP and therefore any other discussion of Kaine's qualifications or preparedness to be VP are irrelevant.

we all just agree that no common ground is going to be found on this topic.

Because we're just going in circles right now.

"Obama didn't pick Kaine, so it doesn't matter!"

"But Kaine was a finalist, so it does matter!"

"But Obama didn't pick Kaine, so it doesn't matter!"

"But Kaine was a finalist, so it does matter!"

That's basically what's being said here.



what's interesting is that the structure of this "discussion" as you've outlined above continues to repeat itself on other topics.
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Old 09-09-2008, 10:56 AM   #327
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It's all irrelevant. The VP picks are Palin and Biden. Any discussion of anyone other than these 2 is a waste of time. Any speculation about the ones who were not chose is just that...speculation. That type of analysis can be saved for after the election when we are discussing why Obama lost by not picking Clinton...

just kidding. I could resist.

Kaine is not the choice so any discussion about him and his experience does not matter. Its Biden's strengths and weaknesses that are effecting the Obama ticket.
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:03 AM   #328
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It's all irrelevant. The VP picks are Palin and Biden. Any discussion of anyone other than these 2 is a waste of time. Any speculation about the ones who were not chose is just that...speculation. That type of analysis can be saved for after the election when we are discussing why Obama lost by not picking Clinton...

just kidding. I could resist.

Kaine is not the choice so any discussion about him and his experience does not matter. Its Biden's strengths and weaknesses that are effecting the Obama ticket.
Glad you see it that way.

And Biden's strengths are effecting the Obama ticket in a very positive way.

Understand this: The ONLY thing that might stop Biden from absolutely eviscerating Palin in the VP debate is the fear of right-wing media saying that Biden was too rough with her, bullied her, whatever. He won't bully her at all, he's much to classy a man for that - but the media will report it that way anyway if he so much as raises his voice to make a point.

Imo, the Democratic ticket has two people with whom I would feel 100% comfortable being president, while the Republican ticket is struggling to have one.

I realize your opinion is and will be 100% the opposite.
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:27 AM   #329
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Originally Posted by namkcuR View Post
Glad you see it that way.

And Biden's strengths are effecting the Obama ticket in a very positive way.

Understand this: The ONLY thing that might stop Biden from absolutely eviscerating Palin in the VP debate is the fear of right-wing media saying that Biden was too rough with her, bullied her, whatever. He won't bully her at all, he's much to classy a man for that - but the media will report it that way anyway if he so much as raises his voice to make a point.

Imo, the Democratic ticket has two people with whom I would feel 100% comfortable being president, while the Republican ticket is struggling to have one.

I realize your opinion is and will be 100% the opposite.

Not 100% opposite, but maybe a bit more open minded


I think you are giving a lot of credit to Biden who was not very strong in the debates for the Democratic nomination. To say "ONLY thing" is having a pretty narrow view. She many not have a background in the Washington political machine but she's not a complete idiot. They both have challenges in how they will come across to Americans regardless of WHAT they say. What they say is most important but if either comes across as an a-hole or mean or ???, what they say might not get heard.

It will be a fun debate to watch.
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Old 09-09-2008, 11:37 AM   #330
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It will be a fun debate to watch.


my guess is that it's going to be really, really painful. he'll come off stilted and awkward, and she'll just repeat her lines.
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:03 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by namkcuR View Post
Glad you see it that way.

And Biden's strengths are effecting the Obama ticket in a very positive way.
Biden most likely put PA safely in Obama's column.

And he was a good pick because no one said. WTF


Hillary would have put the whole contest safely in Obama's column.

If Obama wins, and he should, the Obama pick will bo down as a good one.

If Obama loses we will always hear that if Hillary had been the nominee,
thay would have won.
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:25 PM   #332
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Barack Obama will be appearing on The Late Show with David Letterman on Wednesday, 9/10/08.

Just thought I'd post that
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:36 PM   #333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diamond View Post
Don't look now Boo boo but McCain has opened up a 15 point lead among Independents:

McCain Now Winning Majority of Independents

<>
I don't post here a lot I just mostly read the posts. I'd like to say your BOLD post reminded me a lot of the republican convention which I felt was full of snobishness, meaness, sarcasam and a feeling of being elite. Just my thoughts.
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Old 09-09-2008, 12:44 PM   #334
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except that it is.
Thats only true if you think Biden was selected because he was the ONLY one qualified to be VP for Obama.
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Old 09-09-2008, 01:27 PM   #335
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Wow, an impressive bounce with the independents for McCain from the convention.


Quote:
September 9, 2008
McCain Now Winning Majority of IndependentsMajority of independents now prefer him over Obama, 52% to 37%


PRINCETON, NJ -- John McCain's 6 percentage-point bounce in voter support spanning the Republican National Convention is largely explained by political independents shifting to him in fairly big numbers, from 40% pre-convention to 52% post-convention in Gallup Poll Daily tracking.

By contrast, Democrats' support for McCain rose 5 percentage points over the GOP convention period, from 9% to 14%, while Republicans' already-high support stayed about the same.

The surge in political independents who favor McCain for president marks the first time since Gallup began tracking voters' general-election preferences in March that a majority of independents have sided with either of the two major-party candidates. Prior to now, McCain had received no better than 48% of the independent vote and Obama no better than 46%, making the race for the political middle highly competitive.

Layering voters' political ideology over their party identification provides the additional finding that the slim group of "pure independents" -- those with no political leanings to either major party -- grew more favorable to McCain by an even larger amount over the past week or so. McCain was preferred over Obama by 20% of pure independents in Gallup Poll Daily tracking from Aug. 29-31. In the latest three-day rolling average, from Sept. 5-7, he is favored by 39% of non-leaning independents, a 19-point increase. (Nearly 40% of pure independents remain undecided.)

The more modest expansion of McCain's support among Democrats has come mainly from the right wing of that party, with 25% of conservative Democrats now favoring him over Obama, compared with 15% just before the Republican gathering. Moderate and liberal Democrats show only slightly more support for McCain than they did prior to the GOP convention.

There has been no change in the presidential preferences of either conservative Republicans or moderate-to-liberal Republicans.

In contrast to the differential shifts in support for McCain by party and ideology, Gallup Poll Daily tracking finds a uniform rise in support for McCain since late August among men and women. The percentage of men supporting McCain over Obama pre- and post-Republican convention rose from 46% to 52%, while the percentage of women rose from 41% to 46%.


Voters 30 and older are more likely to be supporting McCain than they were just prior to the Republican convention, but not young voters. In contrast to the 7-point jumps in support seen among those aged 50 to 64, and 65 and older, there has been a 1-point decline in support among 18- to 29-year-olds.

Regionally, Gallup finds solid gains for McCain in all areas of the country except the West, where his already fairly high support has held steady. However, the 9-point increase for McCain in the South on top of his previous 49% support level in that region makes the South now overwhelmingly pro-McCain, 58% to 36%.

The events on the Republican stage in St. Paul, Minn., from Sept. 2-4 appear to have provided two important boosts to the McCain-Palin ticket.

First, according to the latest USA Today/Gallup poll, conducted Sept. 5-7, McCain has energized his Republican base and, as a result, has potentially strengthened his positioning on Election Day with "likely voters." Second, as the Gallup Poll Daily trends discussed here show, voter movement toward McCain since the Republican convention occurred mainly with independents, thus broadening McCain's appeal beyond the party.

Republicans had already lined up for McCain before the convention started. Now, they are excited, and are joined by more independents than at any other time in the campaign. Those gains may not last -- "bounces" rarely do -- but they enable McCain to launch the next phase of the campaign with the knowledge of what his winning coalition might look like.




McCain Now Winning Majority of Independents

McCain has 46% of the female vote, 52% of the male vote, and over 50% of the vote of all age groups except 18 to 29.
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Old 09-09-2008, 02:11 PM   #336
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I think you are giving a lot of credit to Biden who was not very strong in the debates for the Democratic nomination.
You could say a lot of things about Biden to knock him down, that he opposed the '91 Gulf War, that's he's a typical Northeastern liberal, that he tanked his own '88 run because of plaigarism, it's hard to argue with any of that but to say he was not strong in the Dem primary debates is just literally asanine.

In fact, at a time when the media couldn't stop themselves from ignoring the other 6 or 7 people on stage who's names weren't Obama, Clinton or Edwards, nearly every pundit I heard on cable news, from FOX to MSNBC said Biden was excellent in each debate.

Did that translate into votes? Of course not.
I don't blame you for not knowing how well he did, you, like most Americans probably didn't even watch.
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:13 PM   #337
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You could say a lot of things about Biden to knock him down, that he opposed the '91 Gulf War, that's he's a typical Northeastern liberal, that he tanked his own '88 run because of plaigarism, it's hard to argue with any of that but to say he was not strong in the Dem primary debates is just literally asanine.

In fact, at a time when the media couldn't stop themselves from ignoring the other 6 or 7 people on stage who's names weren't Obama, Clinton or Edwards, nearly every pundit I heard on cable news, from FOX to MSNBC said Biden was excellent in each debate.

Did that translate into votes? Of course not.
I don't blame you for not knowing how well he did, you, like most Americans probably didn't even watch.
I did watch them all because I find all of this on both side very interesting. You could be right in the assessment about the focus on Obama, Clinton and Edwards. I just dont recall anything that made Biden stick out in my opinion but that might be because of the focus.

That said, I stick by my assessment that how they come across to the American people will be as important as what they say. Case in point from the past. Kennedy v. Nixon. People watching the debate said Kennedy won. He was confident, good-looking, etc. Nixon was sweating and lacking the Kennedy swagger. For those listen in radio, it was a landslide win for Nixon.

Again, I'm looking forward to watching this one
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:21 PM   #338
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If they are going to be sending Meghan McCain out to do interviews, at least feed her some inoffensive statements. Instead she today asserted that "No one knows what war is like other than my family. Period."

Oookay.

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Old 09-09-2008, 05:34 PM   #339
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If they are going to be sending Meghan McCain out to do interviews, at least feed her some inoffensive statements. Instead she today asserted that "No one knows what war is like other than my family. Period."

Oookay.

True. Dumb statement but I think you know what she meant. Just like Obama was not really talking about "His Muslim faith."
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Old 09-09-2008, 05:34 PM   #340
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.


sometimes abstinence

really is better
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