US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #8

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Glad you see it that way.

And Biden's strengths are effecting the Obama ticket in a very positive way.

Biden most likely put PA safely in Obama's column.

And he was a good pick because no one said. WTF :huh:


Hillary would have put the whole contest safely in Obama's column.

If Obama wins, and he should, the Obama pick will bo down as a good one.

If Obama loses we will always hear that if Hillary had been the nominee,
thay would have won.
 
Barack Obama will be appearing on The Late Show with David Letterman on Wednesday, 9/10/08.

Just thought I'd post that :wave:
 
Wow, an impressive bounce with the independents for McCain from the convention.:up:


September 9, 2008
McCain Now Winning Majority of IndependentsMajority of independents now prefer him over Obama, 52% to 37%


PRINCETON, NJ -- John McCain's 6 percentage-point bounce in voter support spanning the Republican National Convention is largely explained by political independents shifting to him in fairly big numbers, from 40% pre-convention to 52% post-convention in Gallup Poll Daily tracking.

By contrast, Democrats' support for McCain rose 5 percentage points over the GOP convention period, from 9% to 14%, while Republicans' already-high support stayed about the same.

The surge in political independents who favor McCain for president marks the first time since Gallup began tracking voters' general-election preferences in March that a majority of independents have sided with either of the two major-party candidates. Prior to now, McCain had received no better than 48% of the independent vote and Obama no better than 46%, making the race for the political middle highly competitive.

Layering voters' political ideology over their party identification provides the additional finding that the slim group of "pure independents" -- those with no political leanings to either major party -- grew more favorable to McCain by an even larger amount over the past week or so. McCain was preferred over Obama by 20% of pure independents in Gallup Poll Daily tracking from Aug. 29-31. In the latest three-day rolling average, from Sept. 5-7, he is favored by 39% of non-leaning independents, a 19-point increase. (Nearly 40% of pure independents remain undecided.)

The more modest expansion of McCain's support among Democrats has come mainly from the right wing of that party, with 25% of conservative Democrats now favoring him over Obama, compared with 15% just before the Republican gathering. Moderate and liberal Democrats show only slightly more support for McCain than they did prior to the GOP convention.

There has been no change in the presidential preferences of either conservative Republicans or moderate-to-liberal Republicans.

In contrast to the differential shifts in support for McCain by party and ideology, Gallup Poll Daily tracking finds a uniform rise in support for McCain since late August among men and women. The percentage of men supporting McCain over Obama pre- and post-Republican convention rose from 46% to 52%, while the percentage of women rose from 41% to 46%.


Voters 30 and older are more likely to be supporting McCain than they were just prior to the Republican convention, but not young voters. In contrast to the 7-point jumps in support seen among those aged 50 to 64, and 65 and older, there has been a 1-point decline in support among 18- to 29-year-olds.

Regionally, Gallup finds solid gains for McCain in all areas of the country except the West, where his already fairly high support has held steady. However, the 9-point increase for McCain in the South on top of his previous 49% support level in that region makes the South now overwhelmingly pro-McCain, 58% to 36%.

The events on the Republican stage in St. Paul, Minn., from Sept. 2-4 appear to have provided two important boosts to the McCain-Palin ticket.

First, according to the latest USA Today/Gallup poll, conducted Sept. 5-7, McCain has energized his Republican base and, as a result, has potentially strengthened his positioning on Election Day with "likely voters." Second, as the Gallup Poll Daily trends discussed here show, voter movement toward McCain since the Republican convention occurred mainly with independents, thus broadening McCain's appeal beyond the party.

Republicans had already lined up for McCain before the convention started. Now, they are excited, and are joined by more independents than at any other time in the campaign. Those gains may not last -- "bounces" rarely do -- but they enable McCain to launch the next phase of the campaign with the knowledge of what his winning coalition might look like.


McCain Now Winning Majority of Independents

McCain has 46% of the female vote, 52% of the male vote, and over 50% of the vote of all age groups except 18 to 29.
 
I think you are giving a lot of credit to Biden who was not very strong in the debates for the Democratic nomination.

You could say a lot of things about Biden to knock him down, that he opposed the '91 Gulf War, that's he's a typical Northeastern liberal, that he tanked his own '88 run because of plaigarism, it's hard to argue with any of that but to say he was not strong in the Dem primary debates is just literally asanine.

In fact, at a time when the media couldn't stop themselves from ignoring the other 6 or 7 people on stage who's names weren't Obama, Clinton or Edwards, nearly every pundit I heard on cable news, from FOX to MSNBC said Biden was excellent in each debate.

Did that translate into votes? Of course not.
I don't blame you for not knowing how well he did, you, like most Americans probably didn't even watch.
 
You could say a lot of things about Biden to knock him down, that he opposed the '91 Gulf War, that's he's a typical Northeastern liberal, that he tanked his own '88 run because of plaigarism, it's hard to argue with any of that but to say he was not strong in the Dem primary debates is just literally asanine.

In fact, at a time when the media couldn't stop themselves from ignoring the other 6 or 7 people on stage who's names weren't Obama, Clinton or Edwards, nearly every pundit I heard on cable news, from FOX to MSNBC said Biden was excellent in each debate.

Did that translate into votes? Of course not.
I don't blame you for not knowing how well he did, you, like most Americans probably didn't even watch.

I did watch them all because I find all of this on both side very interesting. You could be right in the assessment about the focus on Obama, Clinton and Edwards. I just dont recall anything that made Biden stick out in my opinion but that might be because of the focus.

That said, I stick by my assessment that how they come across to the American people will be as important as what they say. Case in point from the past. Kennedy v. Nixon. People watching the debate said Kennedy won. He was confident, good-looking, etc. Nixon was sweating and lacking the Kennedy swagger. For those listen in radio, it was a landslide win for Nixon.

Again, I'm looking forward to watching this one
 
That said, I stick by my assessment that how they come across to the American people will be as important as what they say. Case in point from the past. Kennedy v. Nixon. People watching the debate said Kennedy won. He was confident, good-looking, etc. Nixon was sweating and lacking the Kennedy swagger. For those listen in radio, it was a landslide win for Nixon.

Again, I'm looking forward to watching this one

Agreed, although it's surely a different era, I think feelings/emotional gut reaction are just as important as most issues to a lot of voters.
 
True. Dumb statement but I think you know what she meant.

Even if she meant that her family knows better than anyone else's what the impact of war is (as opposed to saying it's the only family who understands), it would be an appallingly insulting statement.

I'm assuming that's what she meant and it doesn't really make it any better in my eyes. In fact I find it personally insulting.
 
Agreed, although it's surely a different era, I think feelings/emotional gut reaction are just as important as most issues to a lot of voters.

I agree with you, it was a very different era.

I live in Los Angels but travel to AZ, NM, NV and people I meet are different in all these places. What I find most important here in LA might be different for someone in Davenport, IA or Lincoln, AK. I guess it will come down to what the people in CO, OH, NV, NM, and FL think. I know CA is done. The election day map will show the entire state in red with the exception of LA and SF but that will be more than enough for the Dems.
 
Even if she meant that her family knows better than anyone else's what the impact of war is (as opposed to saying it's the only family who understands), it would be an appallingly insulting statement.

I'm assuming that's what she meant and it doesn't really make it any better in my eyes. In fact I find it personally insulting.


What, no benefit of the doubt?

Would it be different if it was Michelle Obama on that clip? Remember, she got nailed for the "1st time I have been proud of my country" statement. It was a poor choice of words on her part. Did you feel the same about her? As an American did you find her words insulting?

I would think having a father that spent 5 years in a Vietnam prison while serving his country, in the same way as being a wounded Vet like John Kerry, you would afford some grace.

It does not always happen, obviously. But, IMO, it doesn't make it right.
 
The election day map will show the entire state in red with the exception of LA and SF but that will be more than enough for the Dems.


Red/ Blue area maps are really pointless.

In Nevada. if one got all the voters in only Vegas and Reno 5% of the most populated area, they would probably get 95 % of the entire population.

If area is what matters
than Russia is the winner.

Voters should be all that matters.

I have been voting in CA since the 70s

and my vote for President has neven been important.

Right now I believe only voters in Ohio, NH, Colorado and perhaps Virginia have any real say in Nov 2008.
 
I think she meant to say that they understand the price of war. Her great grandfather fought in WWII, was away from home for many years, and died the day he came home. Her fathers captivity, torture, and eventual release, paid a price on his first family, and impacted his physical abilities for the rest of his life. Her grandfather made wartime decisions with bombing, that could have been dropped on his captive son. So, yes, her father is better suited than any of the candidates, as is her family, in the price that war has on American lives.
 
Red/ Blue area maps are really pointless.

In Nevada. if one got all the voters in only Vegas and Reno 5% of the most populated area, they would probably get 95 % of the entire population.

If area is what matters
than Russia is the winner.

Voters should be all that matters.

I have been voting in CA since the 70s

and my vote for President has neven been important.

Right now I believe only voters in Ohio, NH, Colorado and perhaps Virginia have any real say in Nov 2008.


Thats why our all or nothing electoral system sucks.

I feel a system like the one used for the nominations would be better. Getting electorates based on the percentage of the vote. The Republicans would not be locked out of places like CA and NY and the Democrats would have middle America in play. All votes would be important not the ones from a just a few states. Voter turn out might be better if everyone's vote really did matter. It will never happen though. I dont think either side would be willing to give up is strong holds.
 
I think she meant to say that they understand the price of war.

Then she should have spoken in terms of the candidates and not generally.

There are many (thousands?) of other families in the US who understand the price of war as well as her family does.

And millions more around the world who I believe arguably understand the price of war even better.
 
I did not realize she was an experienced politician.

I for one do not believe McCain's surge in the polls has a lot to do with the convention. It has to do with the attacks and mudslinging. Currently, the more moderate voters are being pushed their way do to the treatment of people not running for the office.
 
I think she meant to say that they understand the price of war. Her grandfather fought in WWII, was away from home for many years, and died the day he came home. Her fathers captivity, torture, and eventual release, paid a price on his first family, and impacted his physical abilities for the rest of his life. So, yes, her father is better suited than any of the candidates, as is her family, in the price that war has on American lives.


I agree with your assessment. They are a military family that has suffered physically and emotionally due to the service of our country. I think she was speaking with regards the their family's perspective on service and sacrifice.
 
I did not realize she was an experienced politician.

Who said she was? She wasn't making a political statement nor asserting a policy directive.

I'm not sure what experience you believe one needs in order not to make statements like that?

She is an adult "child" who is being sent out on the campaign trail. Which is why I said if they want her to play that role, they should give her acceptable talking points.
 
Then let's make adds and put it out there on the TV. And the Right can put out ADD's with Obama and his wife with their slips and we will not debate the issues, and you can bet your sweet ass, that the voters will go the republican way when the mud slinging is done.
 
I think the way you throw around "mud slinging" and similar overreactive phrases, they've really lost all of their shock value.

Nobody is mud slinging here, it's an observation which struck me as particularly irritating since it's always the Republicans who act as if they hold the trademark for patriotic virtue.
 
Then she should have spoken in terms of the candidates and not generally.

There are many (thousands?) of other families in the US who understand the price of war as well as her family does.

And millions more around the world who I believe arguably understand the price of war even better.

And Michelle Obama should have spoken with regards to be proud to be an American. Or proud to live in a country where the efforts of men like MLK have allowed her husband aspire to become President. Not this is the 1st time I have been proud of my country.


This kind of Gotch politics does nothing but muddy the waters when we all know better. "But you said 'My Muslim Faith.' I heard you say it. I saw it on YouTube!"
 
And Michelle Obama should have spoken with regards to be proud to be an American. Or proud to live in a country where the efforts of men like MLK have allowed her husband aspire to become President. Not this is the 1st time I have been proud of my country.

McCain said he didn't really love his country until he was a POW, so what? Did anybody make ads of that? No, because it's as dumb as the ones against Michelle (which by the way the right jumped all over).

There is no gotcha politics here as I don't think anybody is making ads or writing articles about this. I brought it up because I saw it on YouTube and thought it was a dumb thing to say. Who's saying "gotcha" here? I don't see anybody pushing for this to be an issue.

As an aside, I also found it incredibly irritating when Laura Bush said that "nobody" suffers as much as George Bush does over this war. It's insulting to people who have lost others. Pointing out the insensitivity of a statement isn't mud slinging or playing gotcha politics.
 
I think she meant to say that they understand the price of war. Her great grandfather fought in WWII, was away from home for many years, and died the day he came home. Her fathers captivity, torture, and eventual release, paid a price on his first family, and impacted his physical abilities for the rest of his life. Her grandfather made wartime decisions with bombing, that could have been dropped on his captive son. So, yes, her father is better suited than any of the candidates, as is her family, in the price that war has on American lives.


But lets not forget that Obama has the military service question covered

Mr Obama was asked by George Stephanopoulos of ABC's "This Week" programme whether he'd ever thought about military service and replied: "You know, I actually did. I had to sign up for Selective Service [a means of conscription in case of war] when I graduated from high school.

"And I was growing up in Hawaii. And I have friends whose parents were in the military. There are a lot of Army, military bases there.

"And I actually always thought of the military as an ennobling and, you know, honourable option. But keep in mind that I graduated in 1979. The Vietnam War had come to an end. We weren't engaged in an active military conflict at that point. And so, it's not an option that I ever decided to pursue."



I have not read his two memoirs
but friends that have do not remember Obama talking about his desire to be in the military service


And please keep in mind that is was 1979 when Obama graduated, the action was over

if it was 1970 and the boys were coming home in flag draped coffins,
Obama would have been fist in line to sign up for a "dumb" war?
 
I have not attacked you personally, I made a point. Overreactive? :applaud: How about you cut the personal observations of my postings out and respond to the content?

Do you believe going after his daughter for the statement she made is going to help Obama or not?

Do you believe that the gains of the last week are due to the Convention? Or could it be the blogosphere rumors about Palin and her family are taking their toll?

The point I made over a week ago is coming true. The center will move right when families are attacked.
 
Do you believe going after his daughter for the statement she made is going to help Obama or not?

Can you point out who is going after her?

Have there been published articles in major news sources? Reports on CNN, NBC and the like? Ads put out by the Obama campaign? By a 527?
 
She is an adult "child" who is being sent out on the campaign trail. Which is why I said if they want her to play that role, they should give her acceptable talking points.


Well,

at least she did not say,

"I am a Muslim"
or

"Over the last 15 months, we’ve traveled to every corner of the United States. I’ve now been in 57 states? I think one left to go. Alaska and Hawaii, I was not allowed to go to even though I really wanted to visit, but my staff would not justify it."
 
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