US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #7

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AP Analysis-misleading ad

TITLE: "Tiny."

LENGTH: 30 seconds.

AIRING: In key states where McCain is on the air.

SCRIPT: Announcer: "Iran. Radical Islamic government. Known sponsors of terrorism. Developing nuclear capabilities to 'generate power' but threatening to eliminate Israel. Obama says Iran is a 'tiny' country, 'doesn't pose a serious threat.' Terrorism, destroying Israel, those aren't 'serious threats'? Obama _ dangerously unprepared to be president."

John McCain: "I'm John McCain and I approved this message."

ANALYSIS: The ad is misleading because it states that Obama said Iran is "tiny" and "doesn't pose a serious threat" without noting that Obama was comparing the threat Iran poses today to the Soviet Union, the nuclear-armed adversary of the U.S. during the Cold War.

The nature of the threat from Iran, which the U.S. believes has nuclear ambitions, and how to deal with it are at the heart of a key policy debate for Obama and McCain. The ad seeks to boil down Obama's position to one that supports the McCain drumbeat that Obama isn't ready to be president.

For his part, McCain wants tougher sanctions on Iran and, like President Bush, doesn't support high-level talks with Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Both Republicans see talks with such adversaries as legitimizing them and bringing them unwarranted attention.

In July 2007, Obama first stirred debate among his rivals for the Democratic nomination as well as among Republicans by asserting that he would be willing to meet _ without conditions _ in the first year of his presidency with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea. Obama later questioned whether Ahmadinejad would be "the right person" with whom to discuss U.S.-Iran relations. Still, Obama argues that direct diplomacy with Iran would help the U.S. press for tougher international sanctions.

Last May in Pendleton, Ore., Obama reiterated his belief that the U.S. is strong enough to talk with its adversaries. In calling Iran "tiny" compared to the Soviet Union and having a small fraction of the Soviet military force, he noted that direct diplomacy with the Soviets was a bipartisan policy for decades in spite of their threat.

"Strong countries and strong presidents talk to their adversaries," Obama said at the time. "I mean, think about it. Iran, Cuba, Venezuela _ these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union. They don't pose a serious threat to us the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us. And yet we were willing to talk to the Soviet Union at the time when they were saying, 'We're going to wipe you off the planet.'"

KEY IMAGES: Photographs of Ahmadinejad and a sign that reads, "Don't forget to say death to America," the image of an industrial plant, a photo of Ahmadinejad looking at machinery, a photo of Obama that is followed by armed foreign soldiers, a terrorist and the Israeli flag before another photo of Obama. The spot ends with a photo of McCain.

YouTube - Tiny
 



here's what Obama actually said:

"Strong countries and strong Presidents talk to their adversaries. That's what Kennedy did with Khrushchev. That's what Reagan did with Gorbachev. That's what Nixon did with Mao. I mean, think about it: Iran, Cuba, Venezuela -- these countries are tiny compared to the Soviet Union. They don't pose a serious threat to us the way the Soviet Union posed a threat to us. And yet we were willing to talk to the Soviet Union at the time when they were saying, 'We're going to wipe you off the planet.' And ultimately, that direct engagement led to a series of measures that helped prevent nuclear war and over time allowed the kind of opening that brought down the Berlin Wall."


Republicans, please tell me, why do you tolerate the blatant lies of your candidates? do you feel any shame at all? why do you feel as if you can't win on the issues and have to resort to such outright lies astonishing distortions?
 
here's what Obama actually said:




Republicans, please tell me, why do you tolerate the blatant lies of your candidates? do you feel any shame at all? why do you feel as if you can't win on the issues and have to resort to such outright lies astonishing distortions?

:up:

If McCain is actually seeing these ads and approving them, he is 1000000% unfit to be president. It's awful.
 
It's one of the worse distortions I've seen in a campaign in a long time, and the right jackasses on radio keep repeating it and repeating it... I know a few that have called into these radio shows in order to correct them, one actually lied to the screener saying he was going to discuss something else so he actually got on air but then he got cut off once he started the quote.
 
It's one of the worse distortions I've seen in a campaign in a long time, and the right jackasses on radio keep repeating it and repeating it...



one thing i want to add to my question above is that, yes, of course, this is politics, and yes, of course, Obama will run tough ads, and other groups will run tough ads.

but, really, is there any comparison at all to be made between the distortions of either party? yes, there are distortions on both sides, but the McCain campaign has given us this, they've given us the blatant lie that Obama will raise taxes on people making $42K, they gave us the Swift Boat people.

for real now.
 
Can I just ask, How in the world is McCain winning every state on AOL's straw poll?:huh: Does he have a whole team of campaign staff whose job is dedicated to voting for him in it all day, every day?:lol: For the record, I'd be saying the same thing if the situation was reversed. That has to be the most asinine polling data I've ever seen.
 
ABC's Senior National Correspondent basically calls McCain a liar, saying that the ad "crosses a new line into dishonesty."

But this is the sort of man McCain has become. He flat out lied about Obama and the troops in Germany as well, and there the media finally caught him when I guess they couldn't themselves take it anymore. Is McCain a liar? If it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck...
 
Can I just ask, How in the world is McCain winning every state on AOL's straw poll?:huh: Does he have a whole team of campaign staff whose job is dedicated to voting for him in it all day, every day?:lol: For the record, I'd be saying the same thing if the situation was reversed. That has to be the most asinine polling data I've ever seen.

Maybe that's one of the things on his web site-you can win prizes (or something similar, I'm too old to remember :wink:) for positive posts about him on certain sites. I'm not kidding.
 
Maybe that's one of the things on his web site-you can win prizes (or something similar, I'm too old to remember :wink:) for positive posts about him on certain sites. I'm not kidding.

He's giving away tokens of his childhood. dinosaur eggs, models of the first wheel, woolly mammoth fur, copies of his authentic autograph from Socrates. :lol:. I really want one of those, so I might go for it.
 
Can I just ask, How in the world is McCain winning every state on AOL's straw poll?:huh: Does he have a whole team of campaign staff whose job is dedicated to voting for him in it all day, every day?:lol: For the record, I'd be saying the same thing if the situation was reversed. That has to be the most asinine polling data I've ever seen.

Well it would be interesting to see the demographic of those that still use AOL...

Quick edit: Guilianni would have won the primary according to an AOL poll :lol:
 
Well, Let me just say that there was a time where the only kind of lying I was afforded was lying down on a cold, dirty floor of a small prison cell, so I take the many opportunities I've had and continue to have to lie as a tremendous blessing and gift from my country.
 
Well, Let me just say that there was a time where the only kind of lying I was afforded was lying down on a cold, dirty floor of a small prison cell, so I take the many opportunities I've had and continue to have to lie as a tremendous blessing and gift from my country.

Good one. You never know, he might say that..
 
Well, Let me just say that there was a time where the only kind of lying I was afforded was lying down on a cold, dirty floor of a small prison cell, so I take the many opportunities I've had and continue to have to lie as a tremendous blessing and gift from my country.



outstanding. :up:
 
Well, Let me just say that there was a time where the only kind of lying I was afforded was lying down on a cold, dirty floor of a small prison cell, so I take the many opportunities I've had and continue to have to lie as a tremendous blessing and gift from my country.

:heart:
 
Well, Let me just say that there was a time where the only kind of lying I was afforded was lying down on a cold, dirty floor of a small prison cell, so I take the many opportunities I've had and continue to have to lie as a tremendous blessing and gift from my country.

And they say Obama's an inspiration. McCain says YES WE CAN....continue to evade the truth.
 
Republicans, please tell me, why do you tolerate the blatant lies of your candidates? do you feel any shame at all? why do you feel as if you can't win on the issues and have to resort to such outright lies astonishing distortions?

I strongly urge you to start speaking up when the people of this forum distort McCain's deficiencies.

I am sorrry, but the street goes both ways. And... You may want to look in the mirror a bit, as we all should.

Peace brother.:heart:
 
I strongly urge you to start speaking up when the people of this forum distort McCain's deficiencies.

I am sorrry, but the street goes both ways. And... You may want to look in the mirror a bit, as we all should.

Peace brother.:heart:

I second that.

I hope all the Obama supporters here denounced the attacks on McCain when he (among other examples) was attacked for not supporting a certain GI bill, when the truth is he preferred a much better bill.
 
yes, because every cough and sneeze along the massive Russian border is going to be blown up into the greatest challenge our nation has ever faced.


Even Obama's foreign policy advisors are not describing this as a "cough and a sneeze". Joe Biden probably can thank Putin for his selection as Obama's running mate. Its Obama's total inexperience on foreign policy and national security that probably pushed team Obama to pick Biden.



it's also important to note that McCain's campaign manager was a lobbyist for Georgia, and it wouldn't surprise me if winks and nods were exchanged in regards to the most recent "incident." Republicans love a sense of crisis. they are at their best when they feel under siege -- be it by Mexicans, gays, phantom WMDs, or Russians. and any actions taken by Russia that can be done as such will be spun into what was the overriding Republican message in 2004 -- "vote for us, or they'll kill you."

Ah yes, it was all a well planned conspiracy to get McCain elected iPresident. Nevermind that in recent months Russian forces were massed along the border and conducted training for the same type of operation they launched nearly 3 weeks ago, or the large number of Russian violations of Georgian airspace over the past year.

The so called Russian "peace keepers" failed to protect Georgian homes and people in South Ossetia. In fact, they were driven out, and their homes were burned and looted by the South Ossetian militia.


it also underscores, to me, just why it will be so important to have someone as calm and cool as Obama in the White House, and not someone itching for a fight and an enemy and a chance for dramatics like McCain. Russia is best dealt with not with threats and stern words.

The conflict actually vindicates the tougher stance that McCain wants to take with Russia. Appeasing Russia is not the way to go. That will just invite more adventures by Moscow in what they like to refer to as the "near abroad". NATO recently voted on inviting Georgia to become apart of NATO in the near future, officially starting the process to move towards NATO membership. While 16 countries in the 26 state NATO alliance voted to start the process for both Georgia and Ukraine, the other 10, led by Germany and France voted against starting the process towards membership. It appears Russia may have looked on that as a green light for large scale intervention in Georgia.


Russian cooperation is going to be absolutely critical in Iran, in the rise of China, in Pakistan, and in the securing of various "loose nukes" across the world.

But not at the expense of other important international security issues.

it might feel good to shake a fist and talk about the "Russian empire" but we have to acknowledge that, 1) this is not the Soviet Union, and 2) it's also not 1995 anymore. Russia is a regional power, Russia is an authoritarian petro-state, and Russia is going to have to be dealt with very, very carefully.

But that does not mean that Russia does not have the capacity to seriously threaten or do serious damage to US and global security. While the United States has a NATO Alliance obligation to defend Estonia and Latvia, the nearest US ground forces to those countries are roughly 700 miles away in Germany. NATO should adjust its current basing of troops in order to be able to respond to its Eastern European members more rapidly in the event of a crises.

Dealing with Russia is a serious matter, and its actions in Georgia are not something that can be pushed to the side as just a "cough and a sneeze".
 
Well, Let me just say that there was a time where the only kind of lying I was afforded was lying down on a cold, dirty floor of a small prison cell, so I take the many opportunities I've had and continue to have to lie as a tremendous blessing and gift from my country.


I find the celebration of that post to be so disturbing, it is nauseating...

Seriously, you accuse the right of lying and distorting and celebrate this. I am leaning towards Obama. If you believe that the left does not play the same game...then step back, and take a look at it. It happens from both the left and the right.

McCain, is a flawed as Obama, a man who associated with an individual responsible for the cold blooded murder of a Boston Cop. A man he calls friend.

Aren't we all guilty of our own distortions and lies? Or is it just in here, where if the man does not match our belief systems, we get to say shite like this.

It may be time to retire....I am not sure I can last the election in here. Every time I come here I want to vote McCain because of these types of posts.
 
And for those who feel that the Obama Campaign does not do the same thing:

FactCheck.org: Distorting McCain's Remarks

FactCheck.org: Saddleback Bloopers

FactCheck.org: Distorting the DHL Deal

FactCheck.org: Waste Worries

FactCheck.org: Not Pictured Here

FactCheck.org: Reed Reality


Wow all of these links to demonstrate that Obama has "distorted" cough cough lied about McCain.....

Enough of the partisan bullshit. He and his campaign are no cleaner than the people who wish to take down.

I am so tired...

And before you tear the sources apart - the Fact Check also rips McCain for the same thing.
 
[Q]Well, Let me just say that there was a time where the only kind of lying I was afforded was lying down on a cold, dirty floor of a small prison cell, so I take the many opportunities I've had and continue to have to lie as a tremendous blessing and gift from my country.[/Q]


I find the celebration of that post to be so disturbing, it is nauseating...

Seriously, you accuse the right of lying and distorting and celebrate this. I am leaning towards Obama. If you believe that the left does not play the same game...then step back, and take a look at it. It happens from both the left and the right.

McCain, is a flawed as Obama, a man who associated with an individual responsible for the cold blooded murder of a Boston Cop. A man he calls friend.

Aren't we all guilty of our own distortions and lies? Or is it just in here, where if the man does not match our belief systems, we get to say shite like this.

It may be time to retire....I am not sure I can last the election in here. Every time I come here I want to vote McCain because of these types of posts.

No, what McCain is doing is way beyond anything Obama has done in the discussion of lying to and attempting to manipulate the people through deceit. Obama has never intentionally twisted someone else's words SO much in an attempt to pull one over on the people who are dumb enough to fall for it. Never.

And the way he's using his POW card deserves every bit the flack it's getting. As Rachel Maddow so eloquently put it: "He risks turning this incredibly politically salient patriotically emotional point of his biography - he risks turning into a punchline himself!" and "At some point, him being a POW is NOT a relevant rejoinder to a political attack on him!"
 
And the way he's using his POW card deserves every bit the flack it's getting. As Rachel Maddow so eloquently put it: "He risks turning this incredibly politically salient patriotically emotional point of his biography - he risks turning into a punchline himself!" and "At some point, him being a POW is NOT a relevant rejoinder to a political attack on him!"

John McCain's POW experience is not something Democrats can just dismiss. In addition, remember that John McCain served as a Naval officer on active duty for a full 23 years of his life. Thats more active military service than any previous President in history except Ike and Zachery Taylor. Unfortunately, these facts get lost in the labling shuffle.
 
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