US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #7

[Diemen]

You are correct:
I have already conceded the election 'hands down" for Obama months ago > if we are talking about FYM posters' consensus

Interesting. I have never stated anything even remotely close to "Obama will win," hands down or not, nor have I invoked the FYM consensus as an argument for (or against) something.

Are we having two conversations here?

one for a FYM consensus - see Diemen

and one about the broader electorate - see 2861U2

If by FYM consensus you mean taking into account nuance and shades of grey.

And if by broader electorate you mean the Religious Right.

 

[deep]

Interesting. I have never stated anything even remotely close to "Obama will win," hands down or not, nor have I invoked the FYM consensus as an argument for (or against) something.



If by FYM consensus you mean taking into account nuance and shades of grey.

And if by broader electorate you mean the Religious Right.

fair enough

I should have written that Obama is the best candidate and deserves support is the FYM consensus

the broader electorate?
that is up for grabs right now is the approximately 10% undecided (we have each candidate getting around 45% + or - a percent or two)
I don't believe, for the most part, they are extreme right or extreme left.

 

[deep]

August 1, 2008, 10:49 am
Protesters Interrupt Obama Speech “Barack Obama, what are you going to do for the black community?”

Amy Chozick reports from St. Petersburg, Fla., on the presidential race.

Barack Obama’s town hall meeting Friday on the economy was interrupted by protesters. Three African-American men stood up holding a banner that read: “Barack Obama, what are you going to do for the black community?”

Barack Obama faced protesters during a town hall meeting in St. Petersburg, Fla. on Friday (AP)

The crowd tried to drown them out with chants of “Yes we can!” But the three protesters just stood there.

“It’s okay, you can ask a question later,” Obama said to the men.

“Yeah, that’s right,” they said. And Obama went back to delivering his speech on the economy.

UPDATE: The main protester got to ask the first question. He cited the way blacks were treated in post-Katrina New Orleans and other current events. “In the face of the numerous attacks that are made by the black community by the same U.S. government, the same government you want to be…Why is it you haven’t not one time spoken in the interests or even on behalf of the oppressed and exploited African community, the black community?”

The man was booed but Obama tried to silence the crowd. “This is democracy at work. He asked a legitimate question.”

“I think you’re misinformed when you say not one time. Every issue you’ve asked about, I have spoken about,” Obama said. “That doesn’t mean I’m going to always satisfy the way you want these issues framed. It gives you the option of voting for someone else. It gives you the option of running for office yourself. But the one thing that I think is important is that we are respectful towards each other and what is true is that I believe…the only way we’re going to solve our problems is that everyone comes together, black white.”

I think Obama handled this situation very well.


The campaign seems to be pretty nimble these days.


One thing I really think they should do is kill all those silly O flags.

They have the teen-age vote tied up.

Those things are silly, most likely the same graphic artist the created the fake Presidential Seal did them.

We are not looking for someone to re-brand America.

We have a pretty good brand.

We just need a new person the to represent the brand.

 

[Diemen]

I don't believe, for the most part, they are extreme right or extreme left.

I don't believe they are, either. But you refererred to 2861 as speaking about the broader electorate, while I think he's speaking more about the religious right.

 

[deep]

I don't read every single word of every post.

I just read what he wrote about McCain picking up a few points in the polls.

And I don't think Obama sharing with the public his personal respect for Ludacris is the best way to win the election. Obama has the youth vote tied up, the black vote tied up. Does he have to prove he is with it?

Now McCain is charging hard telling us he is an ABBA fan. I am sure that will erode into Obama's youth and Black support.

 

[2861U2]

I don't believe they are, either. But you refererred to 2861 as speaking about the broader electorate, while I think he's speaking more about the religious right.

How am I speaking about the religious right? Are you referring to the following, which deep quoted?

"Obama spent last week traveling the world meeting foreign leaders, and McCain spent last week at a sausage restaurant and a supermarket. And you know what? The polls are closer than ever. Gallup is at 45-44, McCain has made big leads in swing states, and Obama's numbers have been falling while McCain's have been rising."

The broader electorate hasn't bought what they see in Obama yet. Apparently his trip overseas (which I think was far less successful than the media will tell you) did basically nothing as far as shoring up votes among middle America. We all know the polls are going to get tighter as the election nears, but you would think after the vastly different weeks the two candidates had, the polls would be easily in Obama's favor right now. The RCP average is the lowest (in Obama's favor) that I have seen in a long time. One poll this week had McCain up 4, and the latest Gallup is even at 44.

 

[Diemen]

Now McCain is charging hard telling us he is an ABBA fan. I am sure that will erode into Obama's youth and Black support.

I think for the most part the broader electorate isn't paying too much attention to either candidate at this point. Hence why McCain can have a dubious week at home and Obama a successful week abroad and there not be any major swings in the polls.

 

[2861U2]

Wow, perhaps Obama is reading my posts.

I am getting a little whip lash

it looks like he is flipping (as I suggested)

and not flopping

I guess he realized that inflating your tires and getting regular tune-ups won't exactly suffice.

 

[sue4u2]

So we can add one more to the list.

He's going to convert us to Muslim, force his black agenda, make us socialist, oh and now make us all lose weight...

add another .. Plagiarising Bono..

http://www.herald.ie:80/world-news/probono-1444653.html

Pro-Bono - World News, Frontpage - Herald.ie[/url]

Rush Limbaugh, a high-profile right-wing radio presenter in the US, compared audio from Obama’s recent Berlin speech and a 2005 ‘Live 8’ speech given by the Irish rock band’s mouthpiece.
******

“This is our moment. This is our time. This is our chance. To stand up for what’s right. We’re not looking for charity. We’re lookin’ for justice!”

On a European tour, Obama addressed a cheering crowd in Berlin: “People of Berlin! People of the world! This is our moment. This is our time.”

”There you have it, ladies and gentlemen, Obama plagiarising Bono,” DJ Limbaugh said.

The accusation comes just as the McCain camp is going more on the offensive – and invoking celebritynames to damage Obama.

So, what's wrong with quoting someone who's right
"They" are" running scared.

 

[2861U2]

This may put Hannity and Beck out of job, what will they bitch about? They spend almost 18 hours a week talking about off shore drilling.

So talking about how Americans are hurting at the pump and how we need to be drilling is "bitching"? Or is it only "bitching" when it's from someone you disagree with?

 

[BVS]

So talking about how Americans are hurting at the pump and how we need to be drilling is "bitching"? Or is it only "bitching" when it's from someone you disagree with?

No, it's bitching when it's been decades in the working and folks are talking about it now as if they've been talking about it for years.

There have been a lot of groups that you would call "liberals" that have been saying we have an energy problem mounting, and the right just laughed it off for decades. And I'll admit the left didn't do much either...

But we all knew this day was coming. And what is the right doing? Hey we have to keep the status quo and keep doing what we're doing, drill more!!! I've even seen most of the radio folk go as far as say burning fossil fuels is not bad for the environment in any way. WTF?!

Just admit we've fucked up, place a band aid on, and while we have the band aid on find a cure.

 

[BVS]

I guess he realized that inflating your tires and getting regular tune-ups won't exactly suffice.

What's funny is that not one of those folk realized that technically he's right, if we were all more responsible individually we wouldn't be here. Which if I'm not mistaken is a Republican motto... oh the irony.

 

[maycocksean]

To be honest, both Obama and McCain are losing a lot of luster in my eyes. I just think it's sad how they've both--in different-ways sullied themselves in order to win this election. I guess this is what it takes to win these days. . .

And I can only blame them to a certain degree. We all share in the blame since we seem to continue to allow negative campaigning and trivialities to carry such weight.

sad.

 

[anitram]

Regarding offshore drilling, I am so sick of politicians having to pander to stupid people. Any sentient being who has given this at least 30 seconds of thought realizes that offshore drilling will produce nothing for years and will not reduce our gas prices. At least McCain was honest when he said this was mostly "psychological" relief.

Instead they are pandering to idiotic low information voters who can't be bothered to engage their critical thinking skills for a moment. It's so infuriating.

 

[trevster2k]

Regarding offshore drilling, I am so sick of politicians having to pander to stupid people. Any sentient being who has given this at least 30 seconds of thought realizes that offshore drilling will produce nothing for years and will not reduce our gas prices. At least McCain was honest when he said this was mostly "psychological" relief.

Instead they are pandering to idiotic low information voters who can't be bothered to engage their critical thinking skills for a moment. It's so infuriating.

yup,yup

Bush's last attempt to leave another gift for oil companies, drill wherever the hell you want to now, environment be damned. And people are agreeing with him. Disaster capitalism is alive and well.

 

[Irvine511]

McCain has just dropped his 4th negative ad in a row. is he going to have anything left to talk about come Sept/Oct?

it's disheartening. i had high hopes for this campaign. but McCain has made the decision that the only way he can beat Obama is to try to characterize him as a terrorist-friendly, unpatriotic version of Kanye (who so upsets the white folks with his "arrogance.")

 

[INDY500]

More like -- characterize him as a 47 year old politician who's only real accomplishment in public life has been to build a campaign of mass hysteria and a cult of personality around himself.

But, apparently pointing this out is "going negative."

 

[BVS]

I think anytime you don't speak of policy or issues, then it's personal, therefore negative. Not to mention completely lazy...

 

[camiloj]

About Obama and Offshore Drilling...

Obama is showing exactly what he has campaigned on...that he is open to make compromises and work with others (such as, GASP! Republicans) to help the American People. What Obama said:

"My interest is in making sure we've got the kind of comprehensive energy policy that can bring down gas prices," Obama said in an interview with The Palm Beach Post.

"If, in order to get that passed, we have to compromise in terms of a careful, well thought-out drilling strategy that was carefully circumscribed to avoid significant environmental damage — I don't want to be so rigid that we can't get something done."

I'd rather have someone who has some flexibility than someone who sticks to their guns at the expense of the American People.

This is what Obama and his campaign all about, ending the gridlock in Wasington that gets NOTHING accomplised for the American people.

Am I happy that he's entertaining this idea? No, but I do take solace in the parts I bolded...especially avoiding significant environmental damage. He doesn't want to be so rigid that we can't make progress.

That's what his campaign is really all about, changing the politics in Washington so that we can progress and get things done. Something partisans and politicans who will not back down on their positions have been unable to do.

Should Obama stick to his guns just because he said he would? We have already had EIGHT years of that kind of mentality. When Obama talks Change, it's not a slogan, it's REAL. And change is not always pleasant. But it's how we move FORWARD.

If anything, this shows that Obama truly does mean what he says about working together to make changes that benefit the American people.

And what's funny is the McCain camp will not accept that he said this. It pisses them off, because they want to paint him as against drilling. It was funny watching them on FOX today never mentioning this.

 

[maycocksean]

More like -- characterize him as a 47 year old politician who's only real accomplishment in public life has been to build a campaign of mass hysteria and a cult of personality around himself.

But, apparently pointing this out is "going negative."

Only real accomplishment. ONLY real accomplishment. . .

You surely can't be serious. I mean is this really what you're going to bring to the table?

Can you explain to me exactly how Obama built this campaign of "mass hysteria"? What was the campaign strategy here? Some democratic strategists sitting around in a room saying: "You know what we need to do is create mass hysteria? You know? Let's get him out there in a suit and tie and have him talk about change. That should really whip them up. . ." WTF?

And "cult of personality". . .well, okay, maybe. I suppose you could say the same of Kennedy with his Camelot persona and what not and George Washington with his whole humble farmer turned Father of Our Country buisness. Obama wouldn't be the first.


Key word: Characterize. Everything you said that McCain is doing is the furthest thing from staying on the issues and is absolutely "going negative". It's every bit as negative as if Obama were to say McCain is just a seventy-something politician who's only real accomplishment is to get himself engrained in the Washington Establishment for decades and build a campaign based on warmongering and fear and. . .what the heck, why not, has built a cult of personality around himself.

 

[Irvine511]

More like -- characterize him as a 47 year old politician who's only real accomplishment in public life has been to build a campaign of mass hysteria and a cult of personality around himself.

But, apparently pointing this out is "going negative."

yes, because Britney Spears and Paris Hilton have anything to do with this.

and, again, as you've outlined above, we're not going to discuss the issues.

 

[deep]

House Republicans go back on the floor Monday to talk gas prices

Continuing with their guerilla tactics from last week, House Republicans will be back on the floor Monday to talk gas prices, even though Congress is in recess, and they may stay there all week.

More than a dozen Republicans have already committed to make appearances, according to House GOP leadership aide, including National Republican Congressional Committee Chairman Tom Cole (Ga.).

Rep. Tom Price (R-Ga.) and Mike Pence (R-Ind.), who lead Friday's five-hour talkathon after the House shut down for the August recess, are also expected to be there, according to this aide.

"In an urgent memo sent to GOP Members and staff Saturday (“A Call to Action on American Energy”), Republican Leader John Boehner (R-OH) and Whip Roy Blunt (R-MO) hailed Friday’s action, which was led by Reps. Mike Pence (R-IN), Lynn Westmoreland (R-GA), Tom Price (R-GA), and others, and encouraged House Republicans to return to the Capitol beginning Monday morning to help keep the historic effort going," said a press release just released by Minority Leader Boehner's office.

“It’s not a request we make lightly. But the American people are suffering,” Boehner and Blunt said in the memo. “The consequences of continued congressional inaction on gas prices are unacceptable. We’ve called on the Speaker to call Congress back into an emergency session this month and schedule a vote on the American Energy Act. We must continue to make a stand until the Speaker complies.”

The session will not be televised, since C-Span does not control the cameras inside the House chamber. Rather, those come under the purview of Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and the Democrats, and they're unlikely to do anything to help Republicans.

But Republicans felt they got a lot of good press out of Friday's "revolt," so they will be back at it again, and younger GOP lawmakers were clearly energized by the tactic, something not evident among Republicans for most of the 110th Congress

This may prove to be an interesting gambit.


I don't know if they are allowed to bring their own camcorders and put themselves on youtube.

The GOP fighting to bring down gas prices,
while Pelosi and the Dems are taking a five week vacation at taxpayers expense.

The average American has had to reduce or cancel his vacation, because of gas prices.

Will we be seeing ads that state the Dems and Obama would rather win an election
than see gas prices go down?

 

[BVS]

yes, because Britney Spears and Paris Hilton have anything to do with this.

and, again, as you've outlined above, we're not going to discuss the issues.

Did anyone see the Daily Show where Jon showed that McCain received the maximum donation from the Hiltons and McCain returned the favor by shitting on their daughter?

And no issues aren't going to be discussed it's all about Britney and Ludacris...

 

[anitram]

Britney is a Republican.

 

[INDY500]

Only real accomplishment. ONLY real accomplishment. . .

You surely can't be serious. I mean is this really what you're going to bring to the table?

What would you list as Barack Obama's greatest achievement in public life so far? That's a fair resumé question.

Can you explain to me exactly how Obama built this campaign of "mass hysteria"? What was the campaign strategy here? Some democratic strategists sitting around in a room saying: "You know what we need to do is create mass hysteria? You know? Let's get him out there in a suit and tie and have him talk about change. That should really whip them up. . ." WTF?

Something like that.
You play up the fainting Obamamaniacs at your rallies, go on Oprah where she calls you "The One," encourage celebrity-studded music videos lifting portions of your speeches, inspire Obamagirl, put the word out for artists to design self-consciously iconic posters of you, have the mainstream press fawn over you to the point of being mocked on Saturday Night Live and give a speech in front of 200,000...Germans...in Germany.

 

[anitram]

Because God knows that if McCain could have more than 50 people show up to see him, he wouldn't be playing that up.

 

[Diemen]

Because God knows that if McCain could have more than 50 people show up to see him, he wouldn't be playing that up.

Exactly. It reeks of petty schoolboy jealousy - especially when your ad is essentially criticizing someone for - GASP! - being popular.

How come Obama gets all the girls? No fair!

 

[Irvine511]

What would you list as Barack Obama's greatest achievement in public life so far? That's a fair resumé question.

ethics reform

securing "loose nukes"

various disaster response bills

a good summary of various bills he's cosponsored can be found here

 

[anitram]

Hahaha, this is gold:

Today Kathy Hilton weighed in on the controversial John McCain ad featuring her daughter Paris, as well as the singer Britney Spears, in a blog on the Huffington Post. Mrs. Hilton called the ad "frivolous" and a waste of "money" and the "country's time":

I've been asked again and again for my response to the now infamous McCain celebrity ad. I actually have three responses. It is a complete waste of the money John McCain's contributors have donated to his campaign. It is a complete waste of the country's time and attention at the very moment when millions of people are losing their homes and their jobs. And it is a completely frivolous way to choose the next President of the United States.

 

[Irvine511]

one can feel the influence of Rove in this ad. it's the closest thing we have yet to swift-boating -- taking what's precisely so great about Obama (he's an intelligent, charismatic senator who gives a rousing speech and has broad appeal both within our borders and without), and turn that into a liability.