US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #7

[MrsSpringsteen]

What does Obama like about him?

Musical talent?

Remember when Elton John defended Eminem and performed with him?

 

[deep]

I don't recall Elton John being a U S Presidential Candidate?

or the father of two little girls that complained about misogynistic music
and then went on to say it's on my iPod

 

[BigMacPhisto]

a vote for Nader is a vote for McCain.

The same philosophy that led the Democrats to illegally keep Nader off of various state ballots in 2004. But I guess it's so right to vote for the party that manipulates the democratic process because they're the lesser of two evils.

A vote for Nader (or McKinney for that matter) is a vote against corporate tyranny, a vote against the world's largest prison (a.k.a. Israel's illegal holding of millions of Palestinians), it's a vote against wasting all of our money on the military budget, it's a vote against allowing a two party monarchy to control ballot access and the debates. It's a vote absolutely in support of the working class and of unions. It's a vote for the environment.

Sorry, but I don't like to sell out my beliefs to the person the corporations are sponsoring this year.

 

[BVS]

I don't recall Elton John being a U S Presidential Candidate?

or the father of two little girls that complained about misogynistic music
and then went on to say it's on my iPod

I guess McCain should cancel his subscription to Playboy, burn his disco records, and well I guess he can't do much about cheating on his wives...

 

[2861U2]

Really? Is everything so black and white with you?

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. Though you may not like it and you may try to make excuses for it, there are some things in the world that are either right or wrong, good or evil, acceptable or unacceptable, and this is one of them. I still don't understand how Obama can believe that many rap songs (and certainly Ludacris is included) are dangerous and violent, yet at the same time appear to like the stuff. The response issued by his campaign said the Obama song "is offensive to all of us who are trying to raise our children with the values we hold dear." Why, then, does Obama apparently listen to songs that are no doubt much worse than even that despicable song? Where's the consistency?

So you agree with all of U2's politics?

If U2 used language and hate a fraction of the extent to which Ludacris and much rap does, I would not be listening to them. And I wouldn't call "Hillary's a bitch" or "McCain should be paralyzed" or any of the other garbage in his lyrics "politics."

Simple. Someone made me a cd with a bunch of different artists on it. I rip it to iTunes, and then it goes on my iPod. I may not be a fan of all the songs on it, but - GASP! - there it is on my iPod.

Edit - an even more appropriate example: I have Queens of the Stone Age Songs for the Deaf on cd. I ripped it to iTunes, but really only have 3 songs on there that I like. The others I'm either indifferent about or don't like. Do I think they're talented? Yes - No One Knows is a great song. But I think the cd as a whole isn't really my style. And yet (dun dun dunnn), it's on my iPod.

Yes, technically that could be a justification. But when someone asks what is on your iPod, one would assume that the first names you mention are the artists which you especially enjoy. I think you're explanation is being awfully generous.

WHAT?! Who said he's listening to Ludacris in front of his kids? Where do these tangents come from?

No, no. I'm asking you. Would you ever use profanity in front of your kids? Since apparently it is okay for Obama to listen to Ludacris but not for his children to, I'm giving you a hypothetical scenario.

So music is only about lyrics?

So you think by "a great talent" Obama was referring to the "music" and not the lyrics? That's a stretch, but ok...

Tell me, how many of Ludacris's songs have you actually listened to? Or are you stereotyping his entire output based only on snippets you've heard?

Actually, I've spent some time today and yesterday reading his lyrics online.


Trying to get back on topic here, I think this story demonstrates another emerging flaw for Obama- that he does things out of political expediency and sometimes seems to show no signs of having any deep values or convictions. Even in the denouncement of the Ludacris song (which I'm wondering why was issued by a staffer and not Obama himself), it still calls him "talented" when they should be condemning him. Obama is trying to have it both ways. Same with the "they're going to say I don't look like a dollar bill" nonsense. He's supposed to be this post-racial candidate, yet it's the Democrats and his campaign bringing race into the presidential race much more than the McCain campaign. Obama talks about how he wants to talk issues and avoid childish distractions. Talking about "funny names" and dollar bills isn't a distraction? I think the Obama campaign is tremendously frustrated right now. Obama spent last week traveling the world meeting foreign leaders, and McCain spent last week at a sausage restaurant and a supermarket. And you know what? The polls are closer than ever. Gallup is at 45-44, McCain has made big leads in swing states, and Obama's numbers have been falling while McCain's have been rising.

 

[BVS]

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. Though you may not like it and you may try to make excuses for it, there are some things in the world that are either right or wrong, good or evil, acceptable or unacceptable, and this is one of them. I still don't understand how Obama can believe that many rap songs (and certainly Ludacris is included) are dangerous and violent, yet at the same time appear to like the stuff. The response issued by his campaign said the Obama song "is offensive to all of us who are trying to raise our children with the values we hold dear." Why, then, does Obama apparently listen to songs that are no doubt much worse than even that despicable song? Where's the consistency?

Who says he listens to all of Ludacris? I have plenty of songs on my iPod from artist where a lot of their material is questionable, but I really love that one song. I think 'Janie's Got a Gun' is the only one of two redeemable Aerosmith songs, should I be criticized for having it on my iPod?

For you to attack Obama on this you must be consistant. You can't watch, listen, or play anything that is violent or offensive to anyone.

If U2 used language and hate a fraction of the extent to which Ludacris and much rap does, I would not be listening to them. And I wouldn't call "Hillary's a bitch" or "McCain should be paralyzed" or any of the other garbage in his lyrics "politics."

You are avoiding my point. Earlier you were confused by how someone could find them to be a great talent but disagree with what they were saying. You obviously think U2 are talented, and I'm willing to bet the farm you disagree with some of the things they say.

No, no. I'm asking you. Would you ever use profanity in front of your kids? Since apparently it is okay for Obama to listen to Ludacris but not for his children to, I'm giving you a hypothetical scenario.

Well this doesn't make sense. Are you reading what you are asking? Do you not think adults speak differently in front of other adults then they would their kids? Do they not watch different movies? So why can't they listen to different music?

So you think by "a great talent" Obama was referring to the "music" and not the lyrics? That's a stretch, but ok...

He may have good flow, write great beats, I don't know... You are missing the point. Look, I understand what he's saying, there are a lot of artists, movie makers, and a lot of bands out there that I think are truly talented but I wish they were a little more optimistic, or they didn't hold this belief, or they didn't feel like they always had to please this certain crowd, etc etc but at the end of the day I find something that's true. But it doesn't mean I'll recommend it to all my friends, parents, or children for some won't understand or appreciate it.

Trying to get back on topic here, I think this story demonstrates another emerging flaw for Obama- that he does things out of political expediency and sometimes seems to show no signs of having any deep values or convictions. Even in the denouncement of the Ludacris song (which I'm wondering why was issued by a staffer and not Obama himself), it still calls him "talented" when they should be condemning him. Obama is trying to have it both ways. Same with the "they're going to say I don't look like a dollar bill" nonsense. He's supposed to be this post-racial candidate, yet it's the Democrats and his campaign bringing race into the presidential race much more than the McCain campaign. Obama talks about how he wants to talk issues and avoid childish distractions. Talking about "funny names" and dollar bills isn't a distraction? I think the Obama campaign is tremendously frustrated right now. Obama spent last week traveling the world meeting foreign leaders, and McCain spent last week at a sausage restaurant and a supermarket. And you know what? The polls are closer than ever. Gallup is at 45-44, McCain has made big leads in swing states, and Obama's numbers have been falling while McCain's have been rising.

Now I know you've been listening to right radio far too long, "political expediency" is their favorite catch phrase. Too bad you can't recognise they are doing exactly what they accuse everyone else of doing.

Who cares if you think the Obama campaign is frustrated? If you ask anyone outside of the right radio crowd they'll say McCain looks frustrated, why is he making so many insignificant personal attacks, is he jealous of Obama's "celebrity"?

At the end of the day none of this matters. It was a slow week, gas prices went down, so right radio didn't have anything to blame liberals for so Ludacris became an issue.

Really, Ludacris??!! In order to avoid all puns, it's just ridiculous and somewhat amusing how low some "pundits" will go.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

I don't recall Elton John being a U S Presidential Candidate?

That's not the point-the point is that he admired his musical talent and acknowledged his freedom of expression. Even though Eminem had some lyrics that many people considered homophobic. Elton wasn't calling for a boycott of him and/or protesting him. If Elton had kids I doubt he would want them listening to Eminem.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

And I wouldn't call "Hillary's a bitch" or "McCain should be paralyzed" or any of the other garbage in his lyrics "politics"

Well she was called a bitch outright here and subjected to many sexist posts and remarks. Where was your outrage/comment about that? Maybe you did and I just don't remember, I apologize if that's the case. After a certain point I stopped reading all of that, it was too offensive. Legitimate criticism isn't-that was.

 

[A_Wanderer]

I agree with the sentiment of John Cox

 

[anitram]

From the Wall Street Journal:

Speaking to donors at a San Diego fund-raiser last month, Barack Obama reassured the crowd that he wouldn't give in to Republican tactics to throw his candidacy off track.

"Listen, I'm skinny but I'm tough," Sen. Obama said.

But in a nation in which 66% of the voting-age population is overweight and 32% is obese, could Sen. Obama's skinniness be a liability? Despite his visits to waffle houses, ice-cream parlors and greasy-spoon diners around the country, his slim physique just might have some Americans wondering whether he is truly like them.

The candidate has been criticized by opponents for appearing elitist or out of touch with average Americans. A Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll conducted in July shows Sen. Obama still lags behind Republican John McCain among white men and suburban women who say they can't relate to his background or perceived values.

"He's too new ... and he needs to put some meat on his bones," says Diana Koenig, 42, a housewife in Corpus Christi, Texas, who says she voted for Sen. Hillary Clinton in the Democratic primary.

This truly boggles the mind.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Now he's too skinny to be President?

Good thing he doesn't look like a male model. Hey he's cute and all, but THAT could really be a problem. Too hot to be President.

 

[BVS]

So we can add one more to the list.

He's going to convert us to Muslim, force his black agenda, make us socialist, oh and now make us all lose weight...

 

[deep]

From the Wall Street Journal:
This truly boggles the mind.

That's ok

Obama and the Democratic party have one more chance to win them over at the convention

The push for the plank in the party's statement of principles reflects a lingering unhappiness over Clinton's treatment during the Democratic primary, and over what her supporters say was an inadequate response from party leaders.

Some Clinton supporters have complained of jibes against the New York senator by TV talk show hosts, off-color novelty items and incidents such as the time when hecklers yelled "Iron my shirt!" at a Clinton rally.

A Democratic committee devoted to writing the platform is to meet today in Cleveland to hear presentations from policy advocates, then draft the document.

"There were so many examples in the media of sexist comments where we never heard from the party leadership or Barack Obama," said Stacy Mason, executive director of a political action committee called WomenCount, which claims thousands of members. The group ran newspaper ads in the spring urging Clinton to stay in the contest.

"We're focused on why the Democratic leadership was so silent about it during the campaign," Mason said. "It was their obligation to come to the defense of one of their own primary candidates, and they didn't. They stayed silent during the campaign, and that's not OK."

If the Democratic Party will not take a stand against sexism, who will?

 

[deep]

"Please be in favor of offshore production," Steve Hilton, a retired federal government worker in Lebanon, Mo., implored Obama during a tour of a diner there Wednesday.

"I'm in favor of solving problems," Obama responded. "What I don't want to do is say something because it sounds good politically."

Well, what happened on FISA? (we had a nice little flip there)

Could this issue keep Obama out of the Whitehouse?

Is he flopping, when he should be flipping?

He could couch it in "States should decide for themselves" not the Federal Government?

 

[deep]

.

 

[Irvine511]

Sorry, but I don't like to sell out my beliefs to the person the corporations are sponsoring this year.

keep fighting the power!

it will continue to actually help absolutely no one.

 

[deep]

This could be a turning point in the elections?

The average American, yes the bitter guy clinging to his 2nd amendment rights and his religion - knows one thing right now.

He does not like $4 - $5 a gallon gasoline, it is hurting him every which way.

McCain and the GOP would like to take action and get gasoline back around $3.00 a gallon.


Obama and the Dems, do not feel their pain!

They could care less for if the average American pays $6 or $7 a gallon.


Keep in mind, there is no truth.


There is only perception.

House Dems turn out the lights but GOP keeps talking

Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and the Democrats adjourned the House and turned off the lights and killed the microphones, but Republicans are still on the floor talking gas prices.

Minority Leader John Boehner (R-Ohio) and other GOP leaders opposed the motion to adjourn the House, arguing that Pelosi's refusal to schedule a vote allowing offshore drilling is hurting the American economy. They have refused to leave the floor after the adjournment motion passed at 11:23 a.m. and are busy bashing Pelosi and her fellow Democrats for leaving town for the August recess.

At one point, the lights went off in the House and the microphones were turned off in the chamber, meaning Republicans were talking in the dark. But as Rep. John Shadegg (R-Ariz..) was speaking, the lights went back on, and the microphones were turned on shortly afterward.

But C-SPAN, which has no control over the cameras in the chamber, has stopped broadcasting the House floor, meaning no one is witnessing this except the assembled Republicans, their aides, and one Democrat, Rep. Dennis Kucinich (D-Ohio), who has now left.

Only about a half-dozen Republicans were on the floor when this began, but the crowd has grown to about 20 now, according to Patrick O'Connor.


"This is the people's House," Rep, Thaddeus McCotter (R-Mich.) said. "This is not Pelosi's politiburo."

Democratic aides were furious at the GOP stunt, and reporters were kicked out of the Speaker's Lobby, the space next to the House floor where they normally interview lawmakers.

"You're not covering this, are you?" complaining one senior Democratic aide. Another called the Republicans "morons" for staying on the floor.

Update - The Capitol Police are now trying to kick reporters out of the press gallery above the floor, meaning we can't watch the Republicans anymore. But Minority Whip Roy Blunt (R-Mo.) is now in the gallery talking to reporters, so the cops have held off for a minute. Clearly, Democrats don't want Republicans getting any press for this episode. GOP leaders are trying to find other Republicans to rotate in for Blunt so reporters aren't kicked out.

Update 2 - This message was sent out by Blunt's office:

"Although, this Democrat Majority just Adjourned for the Democrat 5-Week Vacation, House Republicans are continuing to fight on the House Floor. Although the lights, mics and C-SPAN camera's have been turned off, House Republicans are on the Floor speaking to the tax payers in the gallery who, not surprisingly, agree with Republican Energy proposals.

All Republicans who are in town are encouraged to come to the House Floor."

Update 3 - Democrats just turned out the lights again. Republicans cheered.

Update 4 - Republican leaders just sent out a notice looking for a bullhorn and leadership aides are trying to corral all the members who are still in town to come speak on the floor and sustain this one-sided debate.

Also, Republicans can thank Shadegg for turning on the microphones the first time. Apparently, the fiesty Arizona conservative started typing random codes into the chamber's public address system and accidentally typed the correct code, allowing Republicans brief access to the microphone before it was turned off again.

"I love this," Shadegg told reporters up in the press gallery afterward. "Congress can be so boring...This is a kick."
» Continue reading House Dems turn out the lights but GOP keeps talking

Update 4 - The scene on the floor is kind of crazy. Normally, members are not allowed to speak directly to the visitor galleries, or visitors are prohibited from cheering. But in this case, the members are walking up and down on the floor during their speeches, standing on cheers, the visitors are cheering loudly. Some members even brought in visitors, who are now sitting on the House floor in the seats normally filled by lawmakers, cheering and clapping. Very funny.

Democrats faced a choice here - should they leave the cameras on and let Republicans rip Pelosi & Co. on C-Span, or should they leave the cameras off and let the Republicans have their "tantrum," as one Democratic aide characterized it, with the cameras off. So the cameras are off, but Republicans, and the crowd, are clearly enjoying the scene.

Uodate 5 - Republicans are literally hugging each other on the House floor. Rep. Don Manzullo (R-Ill.), not normally known as an distinguished orator, just gave a rousing speech, accusing Democrats of stifling dissent. He referenced President John Quincy Adams, who returned as a House member after being defeated in his bid for re-election as president. Waving his arms and yelling, Manzullo brought the crowd (including a lot of staff shipped in by GOP leaders to fill up the place), and he left the floor to hugs from his colleagues. You don't see that up here every day.

Update 6 - Rep Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) just pretended to be a Democrat. He stood on the other side of the chaber and listed all of the GOP bills that the Dems killed.

He then said "I am a Democrat and here is my energy plan" and he held up a picture of an old VW Bug with a sail attached to it. He paraded around he house floor with the sign while the crowd cheered.

 

[Irvine511]

Tell me, how many of Ludacris's songs have you actually listened to? Or are you stereotyping his entire output based only on snippets you've heard?

or stereotyping him based on some other characteristic?

 

[deep]

I have already conceded the election 'hands down" for Obama months ago > if we are talking about FYM posters

and I am sure that nothing will or can change that

but, in a broader conversation
which really is more interesting, and matters more, imho, is how do these things play out with the broader electorate?

We could probably post the lyrics to 30 Ludacris songs that we would not want broadcasted at a political rally, or Whitehouse bar-be-cue

Obama should have stuck with U2, or Mariah Carey. There are plenty of 'safe' black artist to list, Ludacris is not one.


Is this really important? is it crap?

Crap rolls down hill,
everytime.

And this is about
winning elections.

 

[Salome]

McCain and the GOP would like to take action and get gasoline back around $3.00 a gallon.

they could rule the world if they'd manage that

 

[deep]

they could rule the world if they'd manage that

Keep in mind, there is no truth.


There is only perception.

.

 

[Salome]

Obama should have stuck with U2, or Mariah Carey. There are plenty of 'safe' black artist to list, Ludacris is not one.


Is this really important? is it crap?

Crap rolls down hill,
everytime.

And this is about
winning elections.

I always figure that every country gets what its deserves

if people reckon that a song on someone's ipod is a good enough reason to influence their vote
........ then so be it

 

[Diemen]

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. Though you may not like it and you may try to make excuses for it, there are some things in the world that are either right or wrong, good or evil, acceptable or unacceptable, and this is one of them. I still don't understand how Obama can believe that many rap songs (and certainly Ludacris is included) are dangerous and violent, yet at the same time appear to like the stuff. The response issued by his campaign said the Obama song "is offensive to all of us who are trying to raise our children with the values we hold dear." Why, then, does Obama apparently listen to songs that are no doubt much worse than even that despicable song? Where's the consistency?

Excuse me, but I don't think you know exactly which Ludacris songs Obama listens to, so the above is quite presumptuous. Again, it is possible to believe someone is talented without liking the entirety of their output, and it is possible to like some of the output while disliking other parts. This is not an all-or-nothing situation.

Yes, technically that could be a justification. But when someone asks what is on your iPod, one would assume that the first names you mention are the artists which you especially enjoy. I think you're explanation is being awfully generous.

Personally I think your explanation is narrow minded. But then you yourself have admitted to not listening to much that doesn't fit in with your beliefs. I know a lot of people like to find music that challenges them.

Trying to get back on topic here, I think this story demonstrates another emerging flaw for Obama- that he does things out of political expediency and sometimes seems to show no signs of having any deep values or convictions. Even in the denouncement of the Ludacris song (which I'm wondering why was issued by a staffer and not Obama himself), it still calls him "talented" when they should be condemning him.

Again, the world is not black and white. Someone can be talented and offensive. A lot of people found Picasso's art offensive. A lot of people found Stravinsky's music offensive. Are you telling me that you can't be talented if someone is offended by your work?

As far as political expediency, the politically expedient thing to do would be to condemn Ludacris completely, but Obama recognizes that the world is not black-and-white. The politically expedient thing to do is to separate the world into black and white, so it's easier to say you're taking a stand on something, as if there are only two sides to take. Obama is being realistic - calling Ludacris out when his lyrics cross the line, but recognizing that he does have talent. It kind of amazes me that you see that as somehow trying to have it both ways, rather than, you know, living in reality.

Tell me, if your mom uttered a plainly offensive statement in front of you and your friends, would you condemn her for it? Or would you condemn the statement, understanding that it does not sum her up?

 

[deep]

Excuse me, but I don't think you know exactly which Ludacris songs Obama listens to,

You are correct:
I have already conceded the election 'hands down" for Obama months ago > if we are talking about FYM posters' consensus

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. Though you may not like it and you may try to make excuses for it,Gallup is at 45-44, McCain has made big leads in swing states, and Obama's numbers have been falling while McCain's have been rising.

your are correct, too:
in a broader conversation, which really is more interesting, and matters more, imho, is how do these things play out with the broader electorate?




Are we having two conversations here?

one for a FYM consensus - see Diemen

and one about the broader electorate - see 2861U2

 

[INDY500]

New McCain ad

They will call him The One.

YouTube - The One

 

[BVS]

Wow, McCain is really burying himself with these shit ads...

 

[deep]

I don't have audio on my office computer.

but, I wonder if McCain should slow down a bit.

he seemed to be making some headway in the polls.


he should not overplay this.


But, the Obama people did set themselves up with the fake Presidential Seal

also, going to the "Wailing Wall" unannounced at 5 a. m.

and bringing their own Campaign banners in Hebrew with that silly Obama flag was in very poor form,
using this holy site for a campaign prop

 

[deep]

I wonder how this will play with Joe six-pack?

OBAMA ANNOUNCES: OIL COMPANIES WOULD FUND $1,000 CHECKS TO FAMILIES...

By: Mike Allen
August 1, 2008 10:53 AM EST

Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) on Friday announced an “Emergency Economic Plan” that would give families a stimulus check of $1,000 each, funded in part by what his presidential campaign calls “windfall profits from Big Oil.”

Details are in this six-page policy paper.

The first part of Obama’s plan is an emergency energy rebate ($500 to individual workers, $1,000 to families) as soon as this fall.

“This rebate will be enough to offset the increased cost of gas for a working family over the next four months,” Obama said. “Or, if you live in a state where it gets very cold in the winter, it will be enough to cover the entire increase in your heating bills. Or you could use the rebate for any of your other bills or even to pay down debt

Separately, Obama’s plan includes a $50 billion stimulus package that his campaign claims would save more than 1 million jobs.

Half of the money would go to state governments, which are facing big budget shortfalls, and half would be used for national infrastructure, including replenishing the Highway Trust Fund, rebuilding roads and bridges, and repairing schools.

Obama announced his plan 27 minutes after a Labor Department report showed unemployment hit a four-year high of 5.7 percent in July — the highest rate since March 2004, when it was 5.8 percent.

“We need to do more,” Obama said in a statement. “That’s why today I’m announcing a two-part emergency plan to help struggling families make ends meet and get our economy back on track.

 

[deep]

sorry, if i derailed the more important Ludacris debate

"Please be in favor of offshore production," Steve Hilton, a retired federal government worker in Lebanon, Mo., implored Obama during a tour of a diner there Wednesday.

"I'm in favor of solving problems," Obama responded. "What I don't want to do is say something because it sounds good politically."

Well, what happened on FISA? (we had a nice little flip there)

Could this issue keep Obama out of the Whitehouse?

Is he flopping, when he should be flipping?

He could couch it in "States should decide for themselves" not the Federal Government?

Wow, perhaps Obama is reading my posts.

I am getting a little whip lash

it looks like he is flipping (as I suggested)

and not flopping

Obama shifts on offshore oil drilling

By MIKE GLOVER, Associated Press Writer 2 minutes ago

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Friday he would be willing to support limited additional offshore oil drilling if that's what it takes to enact a comprehensive policy to foster fuel-efficient autos and develop alternate energy sources.

Shifting from his previous opposition to expanded offshore drilling, the Illinois senator told a Florida newspaper he could get behind a compromise with Republicans and oil companies to prevent gridlock over energy.

Republican rival John McCain, who earlier dropped his opposition to offshore drilling, has been criticizing Obama on the stump and in broadcast ads for clinging to his opposition as gasoline prices topped $4 a gallon. Polls indicate these attacks have helped McCain gain ground on Obama.

"My interest is in making sure we've got the kind of comprehensive energy policy that can bring down gas prices," Obama said in an interview with The Palm Beach Post.

"If, in order to get that passed, we have to compromise in terms of a careful, well thought-out drilling strategy that was carefully circumscribed to avoid significant environmental damage — I don't want to be so rigid that we can't get something done."

 

[BVS]

I pretty much figured this compromise would come up sooner or later, it's pretty much a necessary evil.

This may put Hannity and Beck out of job, what will they bitch about? They spend almost 18 hours a week talking about off shore drilling.