US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #7

[deep]

Originally Posted by Salome

they could rule the world if they'd manage that

Keep in mind, there is no truth.


There is only perception.

.

[Salome]

Originally Posted by deep

Obama should have stuck with U2, or Mariah Carey. There are plenty of 'safe' black artist to list, Ludacris is not one.


Is this really important? is it crap?

Crap rolls down hill,
everytime.

And this is about
winning elections.

I always figure that every country gets what its deserves

if people reckon that a song on someone's ipod is a good enough reason to influence their vote
........ then so be it

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by 2861U2

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. Though you may not like it and you may try to make excuses for it, there are some things in the world that are either right or wrong, good or evil, acceptable or unacceptable, and this is one of them. I still don't understand how Obama can believe that many rap songs (and certainly Ludacris is included) are dangerous and violent, yet at the same time appear to like the stuff. The response issued by his campaign said the Obama song "is offensive to all of us who are trying to raise our children with the values we hold dear." Why, then, does Obama apparently listen to songs that are no doubt much worse than even that despicable song? Where's the consistency?

Excuse me, but I don't think you know exactly which Ludacris songs Obama listens to, so the above is quite presumptuous. Again, it is possible to believe someone is talented without liking the entirety of their output, and it is possible to like some of the output while disliking other parts. This is not an all-or-nothing situation.

Yes, technically that could be a justification. But when someone asks what is on your iPod, one would assume that the first names you mention are the artists which you especially enjoy. I think you're explanation is being awfully generous.

Personally I think your explanation is narrow minded. But then you yourself have admitted to not listening to much that doesn't fit in with your beliefs. I know a lot of people like to find music that challenges them.

Trying to get back on topic here, I think this story demonstrates another emerging flaw for Obama- that he does things out of political expediency and sometimes seems to show no signs of having any deep values or convictions. Even in the denouncement of the Ludacris song (which I'm wondering why was issued by a staffer and not Obama himself), it still calls him "talented" when they should be condemning him.

Again, the world is not black and white. Someone can be talented and offensive. A lot of people found Picasso's art offensive. A lot of people found Stravinsky's music offensive. Are you telling me that you can't be talented if someone is offended by your work?

As far as political expediency, the politically expedient thing to do would be to condemn Ludacris completely, but Obama recognizes that the world is not black-and-white. The politically expedient thing to do is to separate the world into black and white, so it's easier to say you're taking a stand on something, as if there are only two sides to take. Obama is being realistic - calling Ludacris out when his lyrics cross the line, but recognizing that he does have talent. It kind of amazes me that you see that as somehow trying to have it both ways, rather than, you know, living in reality.

Tell me, if your mom uttered a plainly offensive statement in front of you and your friends, would you condemn her for it? Or would you condemn the statement, understanding that it does not sum her up?

[deep]

Originally Posted by Diemen

Excuse me, but I don't think you know exactly which Ludacris songs Obama listens to,

You are correct:
I have already conceded the election 'hands down" for Obama months ago > if we are talking about FYM posters' consensus

Originally Posted by 2861U2

Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. Though you may not like it and you may try to make excuses for it,Gallup is at 45-44, McCain has made big leads in swing states, and Obama's numbers have been falling while McCain's have been rising.

your are correct, too:
in a broader conversation, which really is more interesting, and matters more, imho, is how do these things play out with the broader electorate?




Are we having two conversations here?

one for a FYM consensus - see Diemen

and one about the broader electorate - see 2861U2

[INDY500]

New McCain ad

They will call him The One.

YouTube - The One

[BVS]

Wow, McCain is really burying himself with these shit ads...

[deep]

I don't have audio on my office computer.

but, I wonder if McCain should slow down a bit.

he seemed to be making some headway in the polls.


he should not overplay this.


But, the Obama people did set themselves up with the fake Presidential Seal

also, going to the "Wailing Wall" unannounced at 5 a. m.

and bringing their own Campaign banners in Hebrew with that silly Obama flag was in very poor form,
using this holy site for a campaign prop

[deep]

I wonder how this will play with Joe six-pack?

OBAMA ANNOUNCES: OIL COMPANIES WOULD FUND $1,000 CHECKS TO FAMILIES...

By: Mike Allen
August 1, 2008 10:53 AM EST

Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) on Friday announced an “Emergency Economic Plan” that would give families a stimulus check of $1,000 each, funded in part by what his presidential campaign calls “windfall profits from Big Oil.”

Details are in this six-page policy paper.

The first part of Obama’s plan is an emergency energy rebate ($500 to individual workers, $1,000 to families) as soon as this fall.

“This rebate will be enough to offset the increased cost of gas for a working family over the next four months,” Obama said. “Or, if you live in a state where it gets very cold in the winter, it will be enough to cover the entire increase in your heating bills. Or you could use the rebate for any of your other bills or even to pay down debt

Separately, Obama’s plan includes a $50 billion stimulus package that his campaign claims would save more than 1 million jobs.

Half of the money would go to state governments, which are facing big budget shortfalls, and half would be used for national infrastructure, including replenishing the Highway Trust Fund, rebuilding roads and bridges, and repairing schools.

Obama announced his plan 27 minutes after a Labor Department report showed unemployment hit a four-year high of 5.7 percent in July — the highest rate since March 2004, when it was 5.8 percent.

“We need to do more,” Obama said in a statement. “That’s why today I’m announcing a two-part emergency plan to help struggling families make ends meet and get our economy back on track.

[deep]

Originally Posted by deep

Well, what happened on FISA? (we had a nice little flip there)

Could this issue keep Obama out of the Whitehouse?

Is he flopping, when he should be flipping?

He could couch it in "States should decide for themselves" not the Federal Government?

Wow, perhaps Obama is reading my posts.

I am getting a little whip lash

it looks like he is flipping (as I suggested)

and not flopping

Obama shifts on offshore oil drilling

By MIKE GLOVER, Associated Press Writer 2 minutes ago

ST. PETERSBURG, Fla. - Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama said Friday he would be willing to support limited additional offshore oil drilling if that's what it takes to enact a comprehensive policy to foster fuel-efficient autos and develop alternate energy sources.

Shifting from his previous opposition to expanded offshore drilling, the Illinois senator told a Florida newspaper he could get behind a compromise with Republicans and oil companies to prevent gridlock over energy.

Republican rival John McCain, who earlier dropped his opposition to offshore drilling, has been criticizing Obama on the stump and in broadcast ads for clinging to his opposition as gasoline prices topped $4 a gallon. Polls indicate these attacks have helped McCain gain ground on Obama.

"My interest is in making sure we've got the kind of comprehensive energy policy that can bring down gas prices," Obama said in an interview with The Palm Beach Post.

"If, in order to get that passed, we have to compromise in terms of a careful, well thought-out drilling strategy that was carefully circumscribed to avoid significant environmental damage — I don't want to be so rigid that we can't get something done."

[BVS]

I pretty much figured this compromise would come up sooner or later, it's pretty much a necessary evil.

This may put Hannity and Beck out of job, what will they bitch about? They spend almost 18 hours a week talking about off shore drilling.

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by deep

You are correct:
I have already conceded the election 'hands down" for Obama months ago > if we are talking about FYM posters' consensus

Interesting. I have never stated anything even remotely close to "Obama will win," hands down or not, nor have I invoked the FYM consensus as an argument for (or against) something.

Are we having two conversations here?

one for a FYM consensus - see Diemen

and one about the broader electorate - see 2861U2

If by FYM consensus you mean taking into account nuance and shades of grey.

And if by broader electorate you mean the Religious Right.

[deep]

Originally Posted by Diemen

Interesting. I have never stated anything even remotely close to "Obama will win," hands down or not, nor have I invoked the FYM consensus as an argument for (or against) something.



If by FYM consensus you mean taking into account nuance and shades of grey.

And if by broader electorate you mean the Religious Right.

fair enough

I should have written that Obama is the best candidate and deserves support is the FYM consensus

the broader electorate?
that is up for grabs right now is the approximately 10% undecided (we have each candidate getting around 45% + or - a percent or two)
I don't believe, for the most part, they are extreme right or extreme left.

[deep]

August 1, 2008, 10:49 am
Protesters Interrupt Obama Speech “Barack Obama, what are you going to do for the black community?”

Amy Chozick reports from St. Petersburg, Fla., on the presidential race.

Barack Obama’s town hall meeting Friday on the economy was interrupted by protesters. Three African-American men stood up holding a banner that read: “Barack Obama, what are you going to do for the black community?”


Barack Obama faced protesters during a town hall meeting in St. Petersburg, Fla. on Friday (AP)

The crowd tried to drown them out with chants of “Yes we can!” But the three protesters just stood there.

“It’s okay, you can ask a question later,” Obama said to the men.

“Yeah, that’s right,” they said. And Obama went back to delivering his speech on the economy.

UPDATE: The main protester got to ask the first question. He cited the way blacks were treated in post-Katrina New Orleans and other current events. “In the face of the numerous attacks that are made by the black community by the same U.S. government, the same government you want to be…Why is it you haven’t not one time spoken in the interests or even on behalf of the oppressed and exploited African community, the black community?”

The man was booed but Obama tried to silence the crowd. “This is democracy at work. He asked a legitimate question.”

“I think you’re misinformed when you say not one time. Every issue you’ve asked about, I have spoken about,” Obama said. “That doesn’t mean I’m going to always satisfy the way you want these issues framed. It gives you the option of voting for someone else. It gives you the option of running for office yourself. But the one thing that I think is important is that we are respectful towards each other and what is true is that I believe…the only way we’re going to solve our problems is that everyone comes together, black white.”

I think Obama handled this situation very well.


The campaign seems to be pretty nimble these days.


One thing I really think they should do is kill all those silly O flags.

They have the teen-age vote tied up.

Those things are silly, most likely the same graphic artist the created the fake Presidential Seal did them.

We are not looking for someone to re-brand America.

We have a pretty good brand.

We just need a new person the to represent the brand.

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by deep

I don't believe, for the most part, they are extreme right or extreme left.

I don't believe they are, either. But you refererred to 2861 as speaking about the broader electorate, while I think he's speaking more about the religious right.

[deep]

I don't read every single word of every post.

I just read what he wrote about McCain picking up a few points in the polls.

And I don't think Obama sharing with the public his personal respect for Ludacris is the best way to win the election. Obama has the youth vote tied up, the black vote tied up. Does he have to prove he is with it?

Now McCain is charging hard telling us he is an ABBA fan. I am sure that will erode into Obama's youth and Black support.

[2861U2]

Originally Posted by Diemen

I don't believe they are, either. But you refererred to 2861 as speaking about the broader electorate, while I think he's speaking more about the religious right.

How am I speaking about the religious right? Are you referring to the following, which deep quoted?

"Obama spent last week traveling the world meeting foreign leaders, and McCain spent last week at a sausage restaurant and a supermarket. And you know what? The polls are closer than ever. Gallup is at 45-44, McCain has made big leads in swing states, and Obama's numbers have been falling while McCain's have been rising."

The broader electorate hasn't bought what they see in Obama yet. Apparently his trip overseas (which I think was far less successful than the media will tell you) did basically nothing as far as shoring up votes among middle America. We all know the polls are going to get tighter as the election nears, but you would think after the vastly different weeks the two candidates had, the polls would be easily in Obama's favor right now. The RCP average is the lowest (in Obama's favor) that I have seen in a long time. One poll this week had McCain up 4, and the latest Gallup is even at 44.

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by deep

Now McCain is charging hard telling us he is an ABBA fan. I am sure that will erode into Obama's youth and Black support.

I think for the most part the broader electorate isn't paying too much attention to either candidate at this point. Hence why McCain can have a dubious week at home and Obama a successful week abroad and there not be any major swings in the polls.

[2861U2]

Originally Posted by deep

Wow, perhaps Obama is reading my posts.

I am getting a little whip lash

it looks like he is flipping (as I suggested)

and not flopping

I guess he realized that inflating your tires and getting regular tune-ups won't exactly suffice.

[sue4u2]

Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar

So we can add one more to the list.

He's going to convert us to Muslim, force his black agenda, make us socialist, oh and now make us all lose weight...

add another .. Plagiarising Bono..

http://www.herald.ie:80/world-news/probono-1444653.html

Pro-Bono - World News, Frontpage - Herald.ie[/url]

Rush Limbaugh, a high-profile right-wing radio presenter in the US, compared audio from Obama’s recent Berlin speech and a 2005 ‘Live 8’ speech given by the Irish rock band’s mouthpiece.
******

“This is our moment. This is our time. This is our chance. To stand up for what’s right. We’re not looking for charity. We’re lookin’ for justice!”

On a European tour, Obama addressed a cheering crowd in Berlin: “People of Berlin! People of the world! This is our moment. This is our time.”

”There you have it, ladies and gentlemen, Obama plagiarising Bono,” DJ Limbaugh said.

The accusation comes just as the McCain camp is going more on the offensive – and invoking celebritynames to damage Obama.

So, what's wrong with quoting someone who's right
"They" are" running scared.

[2861U2]

Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar

This may put Hannity and Beck out of job, what will they bitch about? They spend almost 18 hours a week talking about off shore drilling.

So talking about how Americans are hurting at the pump and how we need to be drilling is "bitching"? Or is it only "bitching" when it's from someone you disagree with?