US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #7 - Page 32 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-27-2008, 11:18 PM   #621
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
Anyway, the Obama campaign is in trouble at this point.

They seemingly haven't seen much uplift in the polls from the combined VP announcement, Hilary's endorsement and the Democrats' conference.

Of course, there is still much to play for.

It will take a few more days for the polls to really react to the Democratic convention. We probably won't know for sure what the effect has been until this weekend. But, Friday McCain comes out with his VP announcement, and then its the Republicans turn starting Monday.
__________________

Strongbow is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 11:33 PM   #622
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,471
Local Time: 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post

It is complete and utter bull to say the Obama camp has not done it.


we are talking about a difference in degree.

show me a political ad done by Obama that is even in the same ballpark as the "tiny" political ad nonsense just run by McCain.

he's run the most nasty, petty, vile, small-minded campaign i've ever seen. all they do is mock Obama. that's it. that's the basis of their campaign. that, and that John McCain is a POW.
__________________

Irvine511 is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 11:38 PM   #623
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,471
Local Time: 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utoo View Post
I also have two friends from high school who've been in the Marines since graduating 10 years ago. They've fought in Iraq & Afghanistan. They have a ton of medals, another's been written up in Newsweek for a heroic act he performed in Iraq. But you know what? They're both assholes. Chumps. Dickheads. I don't give two shits that they've been in the military for the last ten years, especially as they've done it to "see the world" and because they didn't know what else to do after high school---not for some amazing "love of country." They can serve for 50 years for all I care, withstand capture and torment all they want, and it won't make any difference to me.




to think that military experience somehow trumps any other sort of experience is crap thought.

i know lots of veterans. i see lots of people where i work walking around with missing limbs. unlike other posters, i actually SEE the effects of the Iraq debacle on the lives of those who've fought in this war. i admire their courage, i respect their sacrifice.

in no way, shape, or form do i think this makes them BETTER than anyone else, i do not think it makes them SMARTER than anyone else, i do not think it makes them MORE QUALIFIED than anyone else to understand complex issues.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 11:48 PM   #624
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,471
Local Time: 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
It will take a few more days for the polls to really react to the Democratic convention. We probably won't know for sure what the effect has been until this weekend. But, Friday McCain comes out with his VP announcement, and then its the Republicans turn starting Monday.


Irvine511 is offline  
Old 08-27-2008, 11:59 PM   #625
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,663
Local Time: 06:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post
I find the celebration of that post to be so disturbing, it is nauseating...

Seriously, you accuse the right of lying and distorting and celebrate this. I am leaning towards Obama. If you believe that the left does not play the same game...then step back, and take a look at it. It happens from both the left and the right.

McCain, is a flawed as Obama, a man who associated with an individual responsible for the cold blooded murder of a Boston Cop. A man he calls friend.

Aren't we all guilty of our own distortions and lies? Or is it just in here, where if the man does not match our belief systems, we get to say shite like this.

It may be time to retire....I am not sure I can last the election in here. Every time I come here I want to vote McCain because of these types of posts.
Dread, just so you know, my post, while certainly snarky, is extremely close to McCain's actual response (or dodge, rather) to questions about not knowing how many houses he owned. And he's used his POW status as a dodge on quite a few occasions, and should be rightly called out for it.
Diemen is offline  
Old 08-28-2008, 12:17 AM   #626
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,471
Local Time: 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
Dread, just so you know, my post, while certainly snarky, is extremely close to McCain's actual response (or dodge, rather) to questions about not knowing how many houses he owned. And he's used his POW status as a dodge on quite a few occasions, and should be rightly called out for it.


he's making a mockery of his actual experience by using it as a trump card on *every* issue, from Iraq to the number of homes he owns.

and let's not forget for a single moment how the Republicans mocked John Kerry's service in Vietnam.

again: THERE IS NO COMPARISON. the depths to which the Republicans routinely sink has no democratic comparison.

and they continue to do so because they keep getting elected.

only we can make them stop.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 08-28-2008, 12:18 AM   #627
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 12:11 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post

Hopefully Gustav won't be as bad as projected. You can count on some Democrats to try and exploit any damage that might be done though.
Strongbow is offline  
Old 08-28-2008, 12:24 AM   #628
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,471
Local Time: 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
Hopefully Gustav won't be as bad as projected. You can count on some Democrats to try and exploit any damage that might be done though.


heckuva job, STING.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 08-28-2008, 12:52 AM   #629
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 04:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post

and let's not forget for a single moment how the Republicans mocked John Kerry's service in Vietnam.
.
since you are for not forgetting
for a single moment even

then I am sure you recall John McCain spoke out against the Swift Boat ads against John Kerry in 2004 and even asked Bush to stop them.
Bush and Cheney responded that they had no control over these 535? groups.

Also, during the 2004 election John McCain was asked on national t v (Larry King, I think) if John Kerry was qualified to be Commander In Chief?

He responded without hesitation, "Yes."

The Conservatives, A M talk hosts went bonkers.
deep is offline  
Old 08-28-2008, 12:57 AM   #630
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,471
Local Time: 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
since you are for not forgetting
for a single moment even

then I am sure you recall John McCain spoke out against the Swift Boat ads against John Kerry in 2004 and even asked Bush to stop them.
Bush and Cheney responded that they had no control over these 535? groups.

Also, during the 2004 election John McCain was asked on national t v (Larry King, I think) if John Kerry was qualified to be Commander In Chief?

He responded without hesitation, "Yes."

The Conservatives, A M talk hosts went bonkers.

and how sad that the John McCain of 2008 would be unrecognizable to the John McCain of 2000, or even 2004.

the John McCain who said that there was a special place in Hell for Karl Rove after what he did to McCain and his adopted daughter, Bridget, in the SC primaries of 2000.

Maverick? no. it's all an image. it was carefully constructed in the wake of the Keating 5 scandal. it's all smoke and mirrors. now, more than ever.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 08-28-2008, 12:59 AM   #631
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post
And while I agree with you completely, I know you have enough intelligence to say that the left and right both distort the truth to get elected.

To claim or insuate that McCain is more dishonest than Obama is just plain - dishonest.
Yes both distort. But please show me one Obama ad that distorted as bad as the "tiny" ad. The "hundred years" argument was a distortion of context, but this ad was distortion to the point that the original comment wasn't recognizable, they don't compare.
BVS is offline  
Old 08-28-2008, 04:07 AM   #632
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
Yes both distort. But please show me one Obama ad that distorted as bad as the "tiny" ad. The "hundred years" argument was a distortion of context, but this ad was distortion to the point that the original comment wasn't recognizable, they don't compare.
Dishonesty is dishonesty - and it is sad when it boils down to a group of people saying, his dishonesty is worse than my guys.
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 08-28-2008, 04:18 AM   #633
ONE
love, blood, life
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utoo View Post
They can serve for 50 years for all I care, withstand capture and torment all they want, and it won't make any difference to me.
Its statements like this that bring legitimacy to the left...
Dreadsox is offline  
Old 08-28-2008, 06:56 AM   #634
ONE
love, blood, life
 
A_Wanderer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 10:11 AM
Liberal interventionism revival
Quote:
Madeleine Albright has been everywhere in her adopted home town of Denver this week. The former Secretary of State and U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, the hard-core Wilsonian who was central in transforming Bill Clinton's second-term foreign policy from cautiously scattershot to Munich-invoking liberal-interventionist, is playing a weird role in Barack Obama's Democratic Party.

This is a time when left-of-center anti-war sentiment is high enough that a relatively unknown Chicago pol croaked the Hillary Clinton machine largely because he was the only major anti-Iraq War candidate in the race. It's a time when Democrats are falling all over themselves criticizing George W. Bush's Russia-provoking recognition of Kosovo as an independent state. And yet the main architect of the Kosovo War—a sovereignty-busting conflict that, unlike Iraq, had no congressional support whatsoever, and much less support at the United Nations—is at the center of rebuilding the Democratic foreign-policy messaging and approach.

You'd think that such a disconnect between anti-war base and pro-interventionist leadership would cause a few brains to explode, but the only people who seem to be hearing the dissonance in Denver are journalists.

True, the foreign policy discussion here is exponentially more robust and well-intended than at the last two Democratic conventions. At each event, no matter who the speaker—Albright, Bill Clinton, Richard Danzig, Richard Holbrooke, William Perry—you will almost definitely hear the same areas of agreement. These are:

1) The U.S. needs to restore its shattered moral authority in the world, and rebuild alliances based on a more collaborative approach.

2) We need to take the war on Al Qaeda more robustly in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

3) Climate change (for the better) and "energy independence" are central to foreign policy.

4) So is "global inequality," "income disparity," and "the growing gap between rich and poor." Oddly, this particular line is never followed up with, "And that's why we need to reduce domestic farm subsidies and take down global trade barriers.

5) Nuclear proliferation is a big problem, and we need to cooperate on it with Russia.

6) The military needs to be rebuilt, expanded, and re-tooled to handle more nation-buildy, soft-power type of chores.

7) More money for diplomacy and translators!

Some of these things are indeed important, and might well make this world a better place, ip doo tan.

But they sidestep the fundamental questions that, you'd think, Democrats (and the rest of us!) want answered. Such as: When do you go to war, and why? Are we still to be the "indispensable nation," with all the responsibility and presumption that comes with it, such as preventing mini-Munichs all over the globe, including such non-Munichs as dictators slaughtering their own people? What happens when all this groovy "collaboration" stuff doesn't produce desired results?

The answers to such questions over the past couple of days have been all over the damned map, even as the facade of unity has continued to obtain. For instance, on the question of America's unipolar role, today Albright gave a luncheon speech that:

A) fretted that the "economic center of gravity" continues to move away from the U.S.;

B) stressed that we need to "enhance America's ability to lead," because even though "the world may not be clamoring for American leadership" right now, "there is no doubt that a guiding hand is needed," in part to provide "a more effective response" to "violent extremism" in Afghanistan, Pakistan, the Caucasus, the Middle East, Sudan and Congo; and

C) pointed out that it will "take time" to convince people that "we're not imperialists."

This is not necessarily change that war-weary Obama supporters can believe in, and in fact it's much less change than a restoration of the liberal interventionism of Bill Clinton's second term.

On the other end of the Democratic spectrum, former Defense Secretary William Perry was acting like all Vladimir Putin's resurgent Russia needs is a big hug. "Russia really wants respect," he said at a panel Tuesday. "We start off by treating Russia with respect." Sorry, but wasn't Bush's whole man-love for Putin at the Crawford ranch more respect than the ex-KGB hack deserves?

Then there is Obama's foreign policy man Richard Danzig, who's a pretty funny and persuasive speaker, until you try to figure out whatever the hell he's talking about. At about minute 70 of his talk with Perry, Danzig unveiled the slogan and mindset that will lead Democrats to a glorious future of global leadership: "Sustainable security."

This is policy by empty politico sloganeering, not unlike having the still-alive Melissa Etheridge performing "Give Peace a Chance" to a crowd of ecstatic delegates who are about to vote for a party that has few intentions of doing anything of the sort.
All We Are Saying Is, Make Smarter War: Will Democratic foreign policy be built by the hawkish Madeleine Albright? - Reason Magazine
A_Wanderer is offline  
Old 08-28-2008, 07:46 AM   #635
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 07:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post
Dishonesty is dishonesty - and it is sad when it boils down to a group of people saying, his dishonesty is worse than my guys.
Do these jeans make my ass look fat?
BVS is offline  
Old 08-28-2008, 08:12 AM   #636
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 28,170
Local Time: 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
For someone else to mockingly incorporate McCain's POW experiences into a joke is quite different than for he himself to overuse and even exploit them to deflect criticism.
Well he's the one who went on the Tonight Show and brought it up. Personally I find him answering the number of houses question, and other questions, by bringing up being a POW far more offensive than diemen's post or by anyone "celebrating" his post.

FOR THE RECORD I have the utmost admiration for his service and his time as a POW, always have. What I have no admiration for is his randomly bizarre injection of it, seemingly to deflect every criticism. Now because he was a POW he can't be criticized for doing that? Come on.

I personally know people who have been to hell and back because of war (some still stuck in that hell and will never get out), and yet they never once use it to respond to criticism of other aspects of their lives, or exploited it to deflect from other issues. I think to do so in the way that John McCain is degrades the experience far more than any post on a message board ever could.
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 08-28-2008, 08:19 AM   #637
Blue Crack Addict
 
MrsSpringsteen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 28,170
Local Time: 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
he's making a mockery of his actual experience by using it as a trump card on *every* issue, from Iraq to the number of homes he owns.

and let's not forget for a single moment how the Republicans mocked John Kerry's service in Vietnam.

again: THERE IS NO COMPARISON. the depths to which the Republicans routinely sink has no democratic comparison.
Agreed. Purple BandAid anyone? Oops I forgot, John McCain was the RIGHT kind of soldier (TM courtesy of Rush Limbaugh). Pardon me while I vomit. Now THAT is offensive.
MrsSpringsteen is offline  
Old 08-28-2008, 10:22 AM   #638
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,471
Local Time: 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post
Dishonesty is dishonesty - and it is sad when it boils down to a group of people saying, his dishonesty is worse than my guys.


i totally disagree.

we have phrases like "white lies." there are degrees of dishonesty.

in this campaign -- if Obama is a 4, McCain is about a 9.
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 08-28-2008, 10:23 AM   #639
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,471
Local Time: 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post
Its statements like this that bring legitimacy to the left...


so you're more qualified than i am to be president simply because you're a veteran?
Irvine511 is offline  
Old 08-28-2008, 10:28 AM   #640
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Utoo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lovetown
Posts: 8,343
Local Time: 08:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadsox View Post
Its statements like this that bring legitimacy to the left...
Dude, if you seriously think that military service makes one competent to lead a country, you're an idiot. I know more douchebags who've been in the military than I care to know. Not that I'm saying that military service makes you stupid or that idiots go into the military---my grandfather was a WWII vet and an amazing person. However, you can be a hero in war when your life is on the line and still be an ignorant asshole.
__________________

__________________
Utoo is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×