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Old 08-22-2008, 02:48 PM   #501
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Originally Posted by BonoVoxSupastar View Post
Well I knew you wouldn't be able to find anything that backed up your previous statement...
You are like the village schoolmaster in the poem 'The Deserted Village' by Oliver Goldsmith:- "For e'en though vanquished, he could argue still."

Basically, the previous statement by Strongbow, which I agreed with, has already been completely vindicated. Several - i.e., more than two - FYM posters on various occasions stated their view that McCain had no chance against Obama, and this has already been proven.

Now, in addition to the two posters who have written off McCain's chance in the election itself, it is fairly clear that Anitram, though she may not have SPECIFICALLY stated that McCain made no chance against Obama, clearly wrote McCain off at a much earlier stage in the process (as did an awful lot of people, to be fair) which is why I find it rather surprising that Anitram would join the chorus demanding evidence of FYM's having written off McCain.
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Old 08-22-2008, 02:57 PM   #502
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I don't see that finding more then two FYM posters over the course of two years say a particular thing is particularly meaningful or suggesting of a general consensus.
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Old 08-22-2008, 02:59 PM   #503
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Having a couple hundred million dollar fortune and living a lifestyle extravagant enough to own surplus homes as "investment properties", all the while blasting your opponent as "elitist" for the crime of worrying about food prices and visiting his family in (middle class destination!) Hawaii is pure hypocrisy.


Are you familiar with the properties?

For their worth, their real estate portfolio if not very impressive at all.

And again, the McCains, ( especially John ) do not live an extravagant lifestyles at all.

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When in Washington, the McCains live in a modern three-bedroom condominium in a high-rise in Arlington, across the Potomac River in Virginia. It is assessed at $847,800.

In Arizona, the McCains lived until several years ago in Cindy McCain's childhood home in Phoenix, which was featured in the glossy pages of Architectural Digest in 2005. They sold it soon after and moved into a $4.7-million condominium in Phoenix.

The McCains spend weekends, if possible, in the remote rolling hills of Sedona. Their 15-acre compound features a modest residence and several guest cabins beside a creek sheltered in a verdant box canyon. The assessed value is $1.6 million.

The McCains also spent $4.7 million to buy two beachfront condos near the posh Hotel del Coronado in San Diego County.

In an interview with Vogue magazine, Cindy McCain confessed that her husband, who has suffered from skin cancer and must avoid the sun, wasn't initially in favor of buying oceanfront property.

"When I bought the first one, my husband, who is not a beach person, said, 'Oh, this is such a waste of money; the kids will never go,' " she said. "Then it got to the point where they used it so much I couldn't get in the place. So I bought another one."

A McCain campaign spokesman did not immediately respond to an e-mail request for the number of rental and investment properties Cindy McCain and her children own through trusts and partnerships.

One such trust owns a two-bedroom condominium in La Jolla, where Cindy McCain's aunt lives, according to the campaign.

In 2007, another family trust owned by Cindy McCain purchased a $700,000 condo in a Phoenix loft building, apparently for the McCains' adult daughter, Meghan.

The same trust bought a third Phoenix condo for $830,000 two months later.
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Old 08-22-2008, 02:59 PM   #504
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You are like the village schoolmaster in the poem 'The Deserted Village' by Oliver Goldsmith:- "For e'en though vanquished, he could argue still."

Basically, the previous statement by Strongbow, which I agreed with, has already been completely vindicated. Several - i.e., more than two - FYM posters on various occasions stated their view that McCain had no chance against Obama, and this has already been proven.

Now, in addition to the two posters who have written off McCain's chance in the election itself, it is fairly clear that Anitram, though she may not have SPECIFICALLY stated that McCain made no chance against Obama, clearly wrote McCain off at a much earlier stage in the process (as did an awful lot of people, to be fair) which is why I find it rather surprising that Anitram would join the chorus demanding evidence of FYM's having written off McCain.


you realize that EVERYONE thought McCain had no shot in 2007, but before that he was the undisputed front runner? that, yes, McCain literally came back from the dead, probably because of the Bhutto assassination and the fact that the rest of the GOP candidates were walking nightmares? it was not a remotely unreasonable position to have called McCain DOA all those many months ago, and her second point still stands, and has been doubly proved by his vacuous campaign run by the very men he said would burn in hell for what they did to his family in the South Carolina primaries in 2000.

McCain stands for nothing beyond McCain.

as for Obama winning in a landslide/McCain having no chance, gosh, the polls tighten for one week, and everyone's now declaring Obama lost? he still has enormous advantages and, yes, will likely win. but EVERYONE has qualified their predictions, EVERYONE has offered nuances, and EVERYONE knows that nothing is for certain in politics.

after all, John Ashcroft lost to a dead man and then was named Attorney General.

stranger things have happened.

this triumphalism is silly.
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Old 08-22-2008, 03:03 PM   #505
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Are you familiar with the properties?

For their worth, their real estate portfolio if not very impressive at all.

And again, the McCains, ( especially John ) do not live an extravagant lifestyles at all.


no one is saying that the McCains live like hedge fund kids.

what they are saying is that accusations of Obama -- an african american kid of a mother who was abandoned by his father who grew up in hawaii and was on food stamps who won a scholarship to the most prestigious private school in Honolulu and then went to Columbia and Harvard and then didn't get a big 6-figure job and instead worked with poor people in Chicago -- is somehow a bigger "elitist" than John McCain because Obama mentions arugula and berry tea is complete and utter bullshit.

as is the entire McCain campaign. it's shocking how vacuous it is.
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Old 08-22-2008, 03:03 PM   #506
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He said that like yesterday - you were making these claims weeks ago, remember.

GAF is hardly a poster in FYM in any case. Talk about a drive-by post. So this is all?

Remember this?


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McCain is DOA. What a sad, pathetic ending, honestly. And he has nobody to blame but himself. The man stands for absolutely nothing anymore.
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Old 08-22-2008, 03:04 PM   #507
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Remember this:


do you really want people to go around digging up your old quotes from 2006/7?
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Old 08-22-2008, 03:08 PM   #508
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I don't see that finding more then two FYM posters over the course of two years say a particular thing is particularly meaningful or suggesting of a general consensus.
No one is claiming that it is. I just said that there has been more than one person in here to claim that the election would not be close. Then some people got all excited and wanted proof of such an outrageous claim.
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Old 08-22-2008, 03:09 PM   #509
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Originally Posted by deep View Post
Are you familiar with the properties?

For their worth, their real estate portfolio if not very impressive at all.

And again, the McCains, ( especially John ) do not live an extravagant lifestyles at all.
I guess in a relative sense to the overall wealth, that's true. Still, seeing multiple houses with "million" in the price tag catches the eye. Obama's single home was bought for $1.65 million, FWIW.

Quote:
"Does a guy who made more than $4 million last year, just got back from vacation on a private beach in Hawaii and bought his own million-dollar mansion with the help of a convicted felon really want to get into a debate about houses?
McCain has either done all of these things or done them on a bigger scale. But these make Obama out of touch?
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Old 08-22-2008, 03:09 PM   #510
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do you really want people to go around digging up your old quotes from 2006/7?
I was told to dig it up, remember?
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Old 08-22-2008, 03:25 PM   #511
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yes, McCain literally came back from the dead,
Um.... McCain literally came back from the dead?
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Old 08-22-2008, 03:27 PM   #512
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Um.... McCain literally came back from the dead?


dude, for real.
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Old 08-22-2008, 03:45 PM   #513
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Originally Posted by Strongbow View Post
Remember this?
One quote? A year-old at that, and at a point when McCain really was going nowhere fast?

Well, you've certainly convinced me.
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Old 08-23-2008, 02:46 AM   #514
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One quote? A year-old at that, and at a point when McCain really was going nowhere fast?

Well, you've certainly convinced me.

Well, I was told to show that there was more than ONE person who essentially stated that this election was not going to be close. I've posted not one, but two qoutes by two different people, do you really need anymore to show that there is actually more than one person who thinks the election is not going to be close?
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Old 08-23-2008, 10:24 AM   #515
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Originally Posted by financeguy View Post
Basically, the previous statement by Strongbow, which I agreed with, has already been completely vindicated. Several - i.e., more than two - FYM posters on various occasions stated their view that McCain had no chance against Obama, and this has already been proven.

Now, in addition to the two posters who have written off McCain's chance in the election itself, it is fairly clear that Anitram, though she may not have SPECIFICALLY stated that McCain made no chance against Obama, clearly wrote McCain off at a much earlier stage in the process (as did an awful lot of people, to be fair) which is why I find it rather surprising that Anitram would join the chorus demanding evidence of FYM's having written off McCain.
Well if you are happy with that weak evidence(a drive by and a primary comment) then so be it.
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Old 08-23-2008, 03:10 PM   #516
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Well, I was told to show that there was more than ONE person who essentially stated that this election was not going to be close. I've posted not one, but two qoutes by two different people, do you really need anymore to show that there is actually more than one person who thinks the election is not going to be close?
If you think your evidence is compelling you're mistaken. anitram made that comment in March '07 - when the field of candidates was considerably larger, before any of the major debates, and during a period where it was widely acknowledged that McCain's campaign had hit a rough patch and was floundering a bit. On the democratic side, things were still very close between the candidates, with perhaps Obama and Clinton slightly ahead of Edwards but without any clear consensus as to who would come out on top.

So how you take her comment as a prediction that Obama would win in a landslide is beyond me.
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Old 08-23-2008, 04:55 PM   #517
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So how you take her comment as a prediction that Obama would win in a landslide is beyond me.


and yet, in the context of posts on other subjects where there's endless repetition and zero analysis, are you surprised?
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Old 08-23-2008, 08:49 PM   #518
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Don't vote for this fucker
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On a frozen winter evening at a Town Hall meeting in a school in the Manchester, N.H., suburbs, John McCain expressed surprise and irritation with an intelligence report downplaying the threat of Iran's nuclear program.

It seemed at the time to be an odd thing to say about a Muslim country. After all, even if there were no nuclear program, no oil, and no rabble-rousing president, Iran still wouldn't have Judeo-Christian values. And it's troubling to wonder if that alone would be a reason for suspicion.

Even President Bush has resisted framing the war on terrorism as a clash of religions; his inexpert use of the word "crusade" early in the conflict set off a wave of criticism and backtracking. He's never repeated it.

Perhaps McCain's comment was a similar mistake.

But on Saturday, at the nationally televised forum at evangelist Rick Warren's Saddleback Church in California, McCain declared: "Our Judeo-Christian principles dictate that we do what we can to help people who are oppressed throughout the world."

And a review of online records by the Globe library shows that McCain uses the term "Judeo-Christian values" quite often, and in varying contexts. For example, last week in York, Pa., he praised small-town Americans by saying, "The Judeo-Christian values that they hold are the strength of America."

He has also repeatedly urged that illegal immigrants be treated in a manner "consistent with Judeo-Christian values." In February, he declared that job training was a Judeo-Christian imperative.

"We've got to educate and train these people," he said, referring to laid-off workers. "It is a Judeo-Christian values nation and it's an obligation we have and we are not doing it."

Last year, when he was criticized for telling the website Beliefnet that America was founded on Christian principles, McCain's defense was that he meant to say "Judeo-Christian." (When pressed, he said he believes a Muslim could serve as president.)

The term Judeo-Christian has a benign history. It was popularized by liberal groups in the 1920s and 1930s to forestall anti-Semitism. It has come to describe the underpinnings of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. McCain, who rarely talks about his personal faith and has disdained the religious right, often uses the term as a synonym for "American values."

But when discussing foreign policy, his use of the term can be glaring.

McCain's view of American power harkens back to the World War II era, when the United States held the moral high ground as liberator. He is a staunch interventionist, both on humanitarian and national-security grounds.

To most of the world, especially in Muslim nations, there is an enormous difference between standing up for freedom and standing up for Judeo-Christian values, but McCain conflates the two. And sometimes, his use of the term seems more than accidental.

"This just wasn't the elimination of a threat to Iraq - this was elimination of a threat to the West, part of this titanic struggle we are in between western Judeo-Christian values and principles and Islamic extremists," McCain said in 2006, after the killing of Al Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

"The number one issue people should make [in the] selection of the president of the United States is, 'Will this person carry on in the Judeo-Christian principled tradition that has made this nation the greatest experiment in the history of mankind?' " he told Beliefnet last year.

On Saturday, in arguing for a strong defense of Georgia in its struggles with Russia, McCain twice noted that Georgia is a Christian nation - perhaps to distinguish it from other crumbling pieces of the former Soviet Union that are Muslim, such as Chechnya and Azerbaijan.

Such comments may pass unnoticed by most American voters and may be reassuring to some religious Christians and Jews. They may even go over well with some secular Americans who are pleased that he is using more inclusive language than some members of the religious right.

But his repeated invocation of "Judeo-Christian values" is sure to stick in the ears of Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and people of other non-Christian, non-Jewish faiths. And they're sure to be asking themselves: Just what is McCain trying to tell us?
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...rence_puzzles/
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Old 08-24-2008, 07:16 AM   #519
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The Associated Press
updated 9:09 p.m. ET, Sat., Aug. 23, 2008

CARDIFF, Wales - Even at 50, the queen of pop just can't stop courting controversy.

As Madonna kicked off her international "Sticky and Sweet" tour Saturday night, she took a none-too subtle swipe at the presumptive Republican nominee for U.S. president.

Amid a four-act show at Cardiff's packed Millennium Stadium, a video interlude carried images of destruction, global warming, Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler, Zimbabwe's authoritarian President Robert Mugabe — and U.S. Sen. John McCain. Another sequence, shown later, pictured slain Beatle John Lennon, followed by climate activist Al Gore, Mahatma Gandhi and finally McCain's Democratic rival, Barack Obama.
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Old 08-24-2008, 07:36 AM   #520
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Earlier this year when I was recording American Prayer, a song I originally co-wrote with Bono, the phrase, "When you get to the top of the mountain, remember me" seemed to take on a whole new resonance, given the inspirational candidacy of Barack Obama. The song always contained one of my favorite passages from Dr. King, which was hauntingly delivered the night before he was assassinated. King says: "I just want to do God's will. And He's allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the Promised Land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the Promised Land!" People long for a connection— whether it is to music, to their country, or to a big idea. Regardless of what happens in November, Senator Obama has reminded millions of people that they have the power to connect to bigger ideas. He is, in essence, the embodiment of a new anthem for change. He has continued King's narrative from what was once thought of as a dream to a reality. I find it especially relevant that Barack Obama will accept the Democratic Party Nomination for President 45 years to the day of King's "I Have a Dream" speech.
When we were originally writing the song, Bono was crafting the words in a way that would make people think about the fact that 'America' as a concept was a truly great idea, based on the bedrock of equality. I find it more pertinent than ever to release it now; to the moment America finds itself in, daring to re-imagine itself and its place in the world.
When I set out to make a video for the new version of this song, I wanted to honor all of those millions of people, especially young people, who are, for the first time, feeling empowered to voice their beliefs. I wanted to capture how Obama's message of change has echoed across the broad fabric of what is America. To do that, we've cast the film with an eclectic array of personalities, including Forest Whitaker, Jason Alexander, Whoopi Goldberg, Cyndi Lauper, Barry Manilow, Joan Baez, Macy Gray and Joss Stone. They appear alongside veterans, teachers and everyday citizens— all of whom have been touched by this simple idea of change. As an Englishman, I'm not an expert in all the intricate details of American politics. But as an artist, I understand how rare it is to inspire a connection to a bigger idea or purpose. This video isn't so much an endorsement of Barack Obama as much as it is a celebration of all those who have picked up a sign, who have registered to vote and are working to make the world a better place. So as Senator Barack Obama ascends to the mountain top, let us not forget all of the others who for the past 40 years have sung anthems of change to make this moment possible.
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