US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #7

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One quote? A year-old at that, and at a point when McCain really was going nowhere fast?

Well, you've certainly convinced me. :up:


Well, I was told to show that there was more than ONE person who essentially stated that this election was not going to be close. I've posted not one, but two qoutes by two different people, do you really need anymore to show that there is actually more than one person who thinks the election is not going to be close?
 
Basically, the previous statement by Strongbow, which I agreed with, has already been completely vindicated. Several - i.e., more than two - FYM posters on various occasions stated their view that McCain had no chance against Obama, and this has already been proven.

Now, in addition to the two posters who have written off McCain's chance in the election itself, it is fairly clear that Anitram, though she may not have SPECIFICALLY stated that McCain made no chance against Obama, clearly wrote McCain off at a much earlier stage in the process (as did an awful lot of people, to be fair) which is why I find it rather surprising that Anitram would join the chorus demanding evidence of FYM's having written off McCain.

Well if you are happy with that weak evidence(a drive by and a primary comment) then so be it. :shrug:
 
Well, I was told to show that there was more than ONE person who essentially stated that this election was not going to be close. I've posted not one, but two qoutes by two different people, do you really need anymore to show that there is actually more than one person who thinks the election is not going to be close?

If you think your evidence is compelling you're mistaken. anitram made that comment in March '07 - when the field of candidates was considerably larger, before any of the major debates, and during a period where it was widely acknowledged that McCain's campaign had hit a rough patch and was floundering a bit. On the democratic side, things were still very close between the candidates, with perhaps Obama and Clinton slightly ahead of Edwards but without any clear consensus as to who would come out on top.

So how you take her comment as a prediction that Obama would win in a landslide is beyond me.
 
Don't vote for this fucker
On a frozen winter evening at a Town Hall meeting in a school in the Manchester, N.H., suburbs, John McCain expressed surprise and irritation with an intelligence report downplaying the threat of Iran's nuclear program.

It seemed at the time to be an odd thing to say about a Muslim country. After all, even if there were no nuclear program, no oil, and no rabble-rousing president, Iran still wouldn't have Judeo-Christian values. And it's troubling to wonder if that alone would be a reason for suspicion.

Even President Bush has resisted framing the war on terrorism as a clash of religions; his inexpert use of the word "crusade" early in the conflict set off a wave of criticism and backtracking. He's never repeated it.

Perhaps McCain's comment was a similar mistake.

But on Saturday, at the nationally televised forum at evangelist Rick Warren's Saddleback Church in California, McCain declared: "Our Judeo-Christian principles dictate that we do what we can to help people who are oppressed throughout the world."

And a review of online records by the Globe library shows that McCain uses the term "Judeo-Christian values" quite often, and in varying contexts. For example, last week in York, Pa., he praised small-town Americans by saying, "The Judeo-Christian values that they hold are the strength of America."

He has also repeatedly urged that illegal immigrants be treated in a manner "consistent with Judeo-Christian values." In February, he declared that job training was a Judeo-Christian imperative.

"We've got to educate and train these people," he said, referring to laid-off workers. "It is a Judeo-Christian values nation and it's an obligation we have and we are not doing it."

Last year, when he was criticized for telling the website Beliefnet that America was founded on Christian principles, McCain's defense was that he meant to say "Judeo-Christian." (When pressed, he said he believes a Muslim could serve as president.)

The term Judeo-Christian has a benign history. It was popularized by liberal groups in the 1920s and 1930s to forestall anti-Semitism. It has come to describe the underpinnings of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. McCain, who rarely talks about his personal faith and has disdained the religious right, often uses the term as a synonym for "American values."

But when discussing foreign policy, his use of the term can be glaring.

McCain's view of American power harkens back to the World War II era, when the United States held the moral high ground as liberator. He is a staunch interventionist, both on humanitarian and national-security grounds.

To most of the world, especially in Muslim nations, there is an enormous difference between standing up for freedom and standing up for Judeo-Christian values, but McCain conflates the two. And sometimes, his use of the term seems more than accidental.

"This just wasn't the elimination of a threat to Iraq - this was elimination of a threat to the West, part of this titanic struggle we are in between western Judeo-Christian values and principles and Islamic extremists," McCain said in 2006, after the killing of Al Qaeda in Iraq leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

"The number one issue people should make [in the] selection of the president of the United States is, 'Will this person carry on in the Judeo-Christian principled tradition that has made this nation the greatest experiment in the history of mankind?' " he told Beliefnet last year.

On Saturday, in arguing for a strong defense of Georgia in its struggles with Russia, McCain twice noted that Georgia is a Christian nation - perhaps to distinguish it from other crumbling pieces of the former Soviet Union that are Muslim, such as Chechnya and Azerbaijan.

Such comments may pass unnoticed by most American voters and may be reassuring to some religious Christians and Jews. They may even go over well with some secular Americans who are pleased that he is using more inclusive language than some members of the religious right.

But his repeated invocation of "Judeo-Christian values" is sure to stick in the ears of Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, and people of other non-Christian, non-Jewish faiths. And they're sure to be asking themselves: Just what is McCain trying to tell us?
http://www.boston.com/news/nation/a...ins_judeo_christian_values_reference_puzzles/
 
The Associated Press
updated 9:09 p.m. ET, Sat., Aug. 23, 2008

CARDIFF, Wales - Even at 50, the queen of pop just can't stop courting controversy.

As Madonna kicked off her international "Sticky and Sweet" tour Saturday night, she took a none-too subtle swipe at the presumptive Republican nominee for U.S. president.

Amid a four-act show at Cardiff's packed Millennium Stadium, a video interlude carried images of destruction, global warming, Nazi dictator Adolf Hitler, Zimbabwe's authoritarian President Robert Mugabe — and U.S. Sen. John McCain. Another sequence, shown later, pictured slain Beatle John Lennon, followed by climate activist Al Gore, Mahatma Gandhi and finally McCain's Democratic rival, Barack Obama.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVi4rUzf-0Q

Earlier this year when I was recording American Prayer, a song I originally co-wrote with Bono, the phrase, "When you get to the top of the mountain, remember me" seemed to take on a whole new resonance, given the inspirational candidacy of Barack Obama. The song always contained one of my favorite passages from Dr. King, which was hauntingly delivered the night before he was assassinated. King says: "I just want to do God's will. And He's allowed me to go up to the mountain. And I've looked over. And I've seen the Promised Land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the Promised Land!" People long for a connection— whether it is to music, to their country, or to a big idea. Regardless of what happens in November, Senator Obama has reminded millions of people that they have the power to connect to bigger ideas. He is, in essence, the embodiment of a new anthem for change. He has continued King's narrative from what was once thought of as a dream to a reality. I find it especially relevant that Barack Obama will accept the Democratic Party Nomination for President 45 years to the day of King's "I Have a Dream" speech.
When we were originally writing the song, Bono was crafting the words in a way that would make people think about the fact that 'America' as a concept was a truly great idea, based on the bedrock of equality. I find it more pertinent than ever to release it now; to the moment America finds itself in, daring to re-imagine itself and its place in the world.
When I set out to make a video for the new version of this song, I wanted to honor all of those millions of people, especially young people, who are, for the first time, feeling empowered to voice their beliefs. I wanted to capture how Obama's message of change has echoed across the broad fabric of what is America. To do that, we've cast the film with an eclectic array of personalities, including Forest Whitaker, Jason Alexander, Whoopi Goldberg, Cyndi Lauper, Barry Manilow, Joan Baez, Macy Gray and Joss Stone. They appear alongside veterans, teachers and everyday citizens— all of whom have been touched by this simple idea of change. As an Englishman, I'm not an expert in all the intricate details of American politics. But as an artist, I understand how rare it is to inspire a connection to a bigger idea or purpose. This video isn't so much an endorsement of Barack Obama as much as it is a celebration of all those who have picked up a sign, who have registered to vote and are working to make the world a better place. So as Senator Barack Obama ascends to the mountain top, let us not forget all of the others who for the past 40 years have sung anthems of change to make this moment possible.
 
On July 7, at a town hall meeting in Denver, a Vietnam veteran confronted John McCain about his support of veterans' issues.
Advertisement

"I have a perfect voting record from organizations like the Veterans of Foreign Wars, the American Legion and all the other veterans service organizations," responded McCain.

Although this sounds good, it is inaccurate and misleading. The VFW and American Legion do not compile congressional voting records, and other veterans' organizations that do compile records aren't favorable.

Disabled American Veterans is an organization that was founded following World War I, and today has 1.4 million members.

It not only tracks this legislation, but tracks how politicians vote. John McCain is documented as having voted with DAV-supported legislation 34 percent of the time. Barack Obama has voted with the DAV 89 percent of the time.


Another organization that tracks legislation important to veterans is Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America, the first and largest organization dedicated to those who served in Iraq and Afghanistan.

IAVA is only concerned with bettering the lives of returning veterans, and advocating for their rights. Its records show McCain voting with IAVA 58 percent of the time, and receiving a "D" rating. Obama voted with IAVA 89 percent of the time, receiving a "B-plus" rating.

Rest is here.
 
Well, I was told to show that there was more than ONE person who essentially stated that this election was not going to be close. I've posted not one, but two qoutes by two different people, do you really need anymore to show that there is actually more than one person who thinks the election is not going to be close?

Your logical reasoning is an absolute failure. Seriously how you made that leap is beyond me. I actually think you contorting yourself in this manner is hilarious! At least financeguy understood the context of the primaries.
 
Are you familiar with the properties?

For their worth, their real estate portfolio if not very impressive at all.

And again, the McCains, ( especially John ) do not live an extravagant lifestyles at all.

i realize this is a few days old, but i've gotta say, deep, you've really jumped the shark on this whole election thing. not impressive relative to their worth? assuming "assessed" values are equivalent to market values (which i doubt), the mccain's properties are likely worth well over $13M. $13M. i don't give a damn what their total worth is. they own over $13M in real estate... that is impressive! what percentage of voters own $13M in real estate? i'd love to see that stat! your rationalization for supporting mccain is reaching epic proportions at this point.

a condo in phoenix, a "compound" in sedona, a couple of condos in southern california, and a condo in alrington (plus properties owned but occupied by others) is not extravagant? what then, pray tell, is an extravagant lifestyle? i'd really like to know. it must include $500 shoes. it must!
 
i realize this is a few days old, but i've gotta say, deep, you've really jumped the shark on this whole election thing. not impressive relative to their worth?

Perhaps you are one of the few Obama supporters that do not know much about Cindy McCain's family background.
 
Monday, Aug. 25, 2008
Michelle Obama's Savvy Sacrifice
By Jay Newton-Small

When she takes the stage at the Democratic National Convention Monday evening, Michelle Obama will surely discuss her husband's many achievements and the promise for America that his groundbreaking candidacy represents. What she is less likely to talk about is just how instrumental she has been to launching her husband's political trajectory, or that this tough, razor smart Chicago native had to sacrifice many of her own career ambitions along the way.

From almost the earliest days of their personal and professional partnership, Barack Obama's political aspirations have guided Michelle's path. At the end of the summer of 1989, Obama was an intern at Sidley Austin, a prestigious Chicago law firm that also happened to employ a young intellectual property lawyer and Harvard Law grad named Michelle Robinson. Obama was offered a permanent job at Sidley, though senior partner Newton Minow wasn't surprised when he turned the firm down; the two had often discussed the intern's political plans and Minow had pledged to help Obama in his pursuit of a place in public life. But Obama didn't just turn the firm down. Minow, a former Federal Communication Commission chairman, recalls that Obama told him to take a seat: "You may not want to help me after you hear the rest of what I've got to say. I'm taking Michelle with me."

"You no good, worthless —" Minnow said, jumping up angrily. "Hold it," Obama said, raising a hand. "We're going to get married."

Most women might not appreciate their boyfriend effectively giving notice on their behalf. Michelle, though, didn't seem to mind. Not only were they engaged a year later but sure enough Michelle surprised her family and friends and left the law to go into public service. It was a move that would prove fateful for both her and her husband: the contacts she made were invaluable, some say essential, to his state senate and U.S. Senate races.

The child of Marian and Fraser Robinson, a stay-at-home mother and a city pump operator, Michelle was raised in a close-knit family that ate every meal together, played Monopoly and read together. "Nobody emphasized public service. What was emphasized was doing what you love to do and you'll be good at whatever you do," says Craig Robinson, Michelle's brother, who left his banking job after a decade to coach college basketball. That didn't stop Robinson from being surprised when Michelle left Sidley Austin to become an assistant to Chicago Mayor Richard Daley. "Her father asked her: don't you want to pay your student loans?" her mother, Marian, recalls. One of her college roommates, Angela Acree, remembers being stunned. "I'm sure at Sidley she made more money than her parents ever made," says Acree. "It just seemed incredible at the time that she'd leave."

The move was not without its benefits. Michelle Obama's stint at the mayor's office gave her, and her husband, access to Chicago's political class. Combined with her own Southside roots — she went to high school with Santita Jackson, Rev. Jesse Jackson's daughter — Michelle's job gave her husband entree into the best political machine in Illinois, augmenting her ties to Jackson's powerful civil rights group, Rainbow Push.

"Michelle is a tremendous asset," says Habitat Inc. CEO Valerie Jarrett, a close friend of both Obamas and a key campaign adviser. As Daley's deputy chief of staff at the time, it was Jarrett who hired Michelle to help trouble shoot for companies having problems navigating the city's bureaucracy. "Her being from Chicago, from the Southside of Chicago, was an asset to Barack in terms of enhancing his ties to the community."

But if Michelle helped give Obama an invaluable new base in Chicago politics, he helped her get back in touch with her home base. It was at the end of her first year as an associate that she had been assigned to mentor Obama. In a now famous story, she at first refused to date him, feeling their work relationship would make a romance improper. But Obama's courtship helped her discover anew her childhood home on Chicago's Southside. Dates often took them to church basements and protests. "He could've gone to Wall Street; those offers were available to him. But instead Barack bussed these young mothers down to City Hall to help them find their voice and advocate for change," Michelle told an audience in Orangeburg, South Carolina earlier this year.

As Obama gradually moved further away from grassroots organizing and into business and politics, Michelle seemed to fill the vacuum. After 18 months, she left the Mayor's office to head up the Chicago office of a new charity that was forming: Public Allies, which helps place young people at non-profits.

"Everyone had said at the time that the best young organizer in Chicago was Barack," says Paul Schmitz, CEO of Public Allies. The group invited Obama to join their board. But when they started to look for someone to head up the Chicago office, Obama recommended his fiancee and resigned when the non-profit began to court her in earnest. "At a time when the average age of our staff was 23, she was like drafting Brett Favre for the Packers," Schmitz says. "Michelle was 29 when we hired her. She had a law degree from Harvard, had worked for the mayor, for a corporate law firm. Comparatively, I'd worked a telemarketing group. Frankly we were surprised that she wanted to do it."

During her nearly four years with the group, Michelle set fundraising marks that remain records for the organization. In the process, she developed an unparalleled network of young activists. "She was a connector. They were a power couple. They helped each other along the way," says Craig Huffman, a graduate student from the Southside whom Michelle took under her wing and recommended for the charity's board. Huffman was drawn into Obama's orbit and, like dozens of Michelle's other proteges, volunteered for Barack Obama's campaigns. "Each ally was placed with a not-for-profit, about 20-30 a year, when you think of the number of people who got to know who Michelle was, and by extension Barack, that's a whole generation from all over Chicago," Huffman says.

Michelle went on to work as an associate dean of students at the University of Chicago, launching a community service program for undergrads before moving to the university's medical school to become vice president of external relations, a fancy title for the person who helps the well-endowed school relate to its struggling Hyde Park neighborhood. She sponsored yet more volunteer programs, helped expand the hiring of local labor and launched a program that found ER patients clinics for long term care.

Eventually, the money that she had initially walked away from in corporate law did come. Her salary last year between the university and six boards approached $500,000. In addition to serving on the boards of the Chicago Council on Global Affairs and the University of Chicago Laboratory Schools, Michelle also worked for WalMart supplier Tree House Foods — a board from which she resigned when her husband criticized the retailing giant's labor practices. Asked in an interview about being the breadwinner of the family, Michelle is shocked by the notion. "Me? No! Barack had like four jobs, always," she laughs. "No really. Barack's a hustler. I shouldn't say hustler, but he's a humper in terms of work."

The division of responsibilities in the Obama household, however, hasn't always been a laughing matter. In his second book, The Audacity of Hope, Obama talked about Michelle's rage at his ever increasing absence: "My wife's anger toward me seemed barely contained. 'You only think about yourself,' she would tell me. 'I never thought I'd have to raise a family alone.'"

Michelle may have envisioned giving her children the idyllic childhood that she'd had, but she had to know that Obama was far from a city pump operator with regular hours, nor did she show any real inclination to be a stay-at-home mom. But it is her connection to traditional middle class values that drives her to still make an effort to put her children first and seemingly removes any hint of a desire to run for public office herself, though many have suggested it over the years. Her hint of nuclear-family nostalgia is also what helps make this very strong woman a much less threatening figure to the audiences who have throughout the campaign warmed to her homespun, sensitive speaking style. That down-to-earth appeal should be on full display Monday night, when she appears in her biggest venue yet. But that is only part of the real Michelle Obama. The country wouldn't get a two-for-one Bill and Hillary presidency if she were to become First Lady, but it would definitely get a lot more than many people realize.
 
what is the point ?

I think the point is, what percentage of voters own that? When John McCain is worried about foreclosure and being homeless, well then it wouldn't be an issue. How can he possibly relate to that? And there's just something pompous and dismissive about saying that you don't know how many homes you own. In a recession, even more so.
 
what is the point ?

The McCains own property they bought with their own money.



excuse me.

you mean to say, "John McCain, a Prisoner of War, bought houses with his wife's money."

if Teresa Heniz Kerry was available for vilification on the basis that she was rich, and that she married Sen. Kerry, and this made Sen. Kerry an out of touch faggy french-speaking elitist who windsurfed in Nantucket Harbor, then beauty queen Cindy McCain, who was way hotter than some disfigured first wife, must be fair game as well.

now, i ain't sayin' McCain's a gold digger ...
 
getting more attention than Mitt's helmet

politico.com

Biden's helmet
By: Avi Zenilman
August 24, 2008 10:41 PM EST

It is a fraying, combed-back helmet that barely covers a longtime fact of Washington life: The senator from Delaware has taken steps to pre-empt baldness.

The most common hypothesis is that he received a hair transplant, where follicles from the bushier back of the head are grafted onto fading spots closer to the front of the dome.

In 1987, a Washington Post reporter asked him to confirm the theory. "Guess," he responded. "I've got to keep some mystery in my life."

A quick Politico survey of stylists and hair transplant surgeons — some of whom have followed Biden’s career path for years, while others didn’t know about him until yesterday — found that there was little mystery.

“When he had darker hair it was pretty obvious, he had larger plugs,” said Dr. Michael Beehner, medical director of the Saratoga Hair Transplant Center in New York. “With the lightening of his hair, it looks much, much better now.”

“Years ago, it was much more detectable,” added a surgeon from the Midwest who refused to be identified. The pattern of Biden’s hairline, according to him, did not follow the normal path of baldness.

Until the late 1980s, according to Beehner, the only method of hair transplantation involved “plugs” that each contained 15 to 30 hairs. If executed well, they could be lined up to create a solid wall of hair. Today, it’s different — and much less visible. “They use little tiny grafts,” Beehner said. “And a typical session is 1,000 to 2,000 grafts.”

“A lot of people have touch-up work, and he may have had some,” he added.

The stylists Politico spoke to, while not enamored with Biden’s haircut, thought the work had turned out well.

“I think he should darken the hair on the top of his head,” e-mailed Christina, a stylist who generally works with celebrities. “One of the reasons being, with it being lighter than the rest of the hair it makes it appear to be thinner.”

“In my view, his haircut and style do not complement his squarish face shape,” added Sky Vega, a stylist in New York. “A forward comb with a serrated fringe would soften that.”

“I feel like it’s a minimal amount of work,” she noted. “I mean, it’s really common for a lot of guys." (The International Society of Hair Restoration surgery estimated that more than 100,000 operations were performed in 2006.)

“Transplant hair, if a good one, can be cut and styled almost exactly like your real hair,” said Christina. “It depends on the technique.”

Along with Biden, the ranks of the senatorial plugged-in included the late Wisconsin Democratic Sen. William Proxmire — who served from 1957 to 1989 — and South Carolina Republican Strom Thurmond, whose fiery orange plugs stayed in until he died in 2003 at the age of 100.

At Thurmond’s 90th birthday party, Biden found a patch of common ground. "When I came to the Senate in '72, you were 70,” he said. “And I want to tell you I resent any reference to your hair. You have been an inspiration to me in so many ways.
 
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