US 08 Presidential Campaign General Discussion Thread #7 - Page 11 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Free Your Mind > Free Your Mind Archive
Click Here to Login
 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 08-05-2008, 12:27 PM   #201
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
Obama has to hit back. and hard. and he did. i think this is a very good spot -- yes, it's negative, but on an issue, not on comparing
a clean, articulate black man
to
sexually available white women:
don't you think you are ginning this up a bit?


Senator Obama compared himself to Paris Hilton back on February 24, 2005.

Quote:
"Andy Warhol said we all get our 15 minutes of fame," says Barack Obama. "I've already had an hour and a half. I mean, I'm so overexposed, I'm making Paris Hilton look like a recluse."
.
__________________

deep is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 12:53 PM   #202
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,390
Local Time: 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
don't you think you are ginning this up a bit?


Senator Obama compared himself to Paris Hilton back on February 24, 2005.

no.

Britney and Paris are yesterday's news:

Quote:
"If you notice, since Britney started wearing clothes and behaving; Paris is out of town not bothering anybody anymore — thank God — and evidently, Lindsay Lohan has gone gay, we don't seem to have much of an issue,"
i think the unspoken messages are heard loud and clear. i work in media. i know exactly how much thought goes into the construction and presentation of images, and i know that they're designed to operate on several different levels at once and designed to subtly pull at conscious or unconscious fears.

this is how Harold Ford was beaten.



i think "presumptuous" really means "uppity." this is why there's the focus on arugala an organic tea and protein bars.

i think that the person who claims that the other is "playing the race card" is actually playing the race card.
__________________

Irvine511 is online now  
Old 08-05-2008, 12:59 PM   #203
Refugee
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 03:23 PM
Although the national polls do give a good indication of how the election race is going, the state polls are more significant. Unfortunately, many of the advantages that McCain appeared to have in the spring in the area of state polls no longer appear to be there. Ever since Obama won the nomination, the battleground Blue states have moved solidly behind Obama, with the possible exception of Michigan and New Hampshire.

The next problem for McCain are the red battleground states of Iowa, Colorado, and New Mexico. With the 2004 Blue states locked up, Obama only needs to win these three red states to win the election. Iowa is already solid blue. Colorado was essentially solid blue until McCain came out ahead in a poll there for the first time ever, but only by 2 points. But then you have to consider that the Democrats are having their convention there and the impact that will have in the state. New Mexico previously seemed more even, but is now trending Blue.

The best chance for McCain now is to find a way to win either Colorado or New Mexico, or take a blue state like Michigan or New Hampshire. Plus, there is also the need to lock up red states like Indiana, Ohio, Florida, Virginia, Nevada, and Missouri.

Obama appears to be very well positioned unless McCain can find a way to make winning Michigan, New Hampshire, or even Pennsylvania a strong possiblity.
Strongbow is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 01:03 PM   #204
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
mobvok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: boom clap
Posts: 4,435
Local Time: 07:23 AM
What detailed analysis leads people to believe that Barack should have a 20 point lead over McCain? This isn't a generic Democrat vs. a generic Republican. Each candidate has their own strengths and weaknesses, and I'd be surprised if any other Democratic candidate could have done significantly better in the polls then Barack has done since June. I might as well claim Barack should be hovering around 90%. Raising expectations.
mobvok is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 01:21 PM   #205
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 07:23 AM
One candidate would be a good 5-8 points higher, that is for sure.
deep is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 01:43 PM   #206
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post

i think the unspoken messages are heard loud and clear. i work in media. i know exactly how much thought goes into the construction and presentation of images, and i know that they're designed to operate on several different levels at once and designed to subtly pull at conscious or unconscious fears.

So because you know everything

When Obama first introduced the comparison of himself to Paris Hilton
was he sending a subliminal message to lusting white women?

Is this the secret of his success?
deep is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 01:58 PM   #207
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
 
BVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: between my head and heart
Posts: 41,232
Local Time: 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mobvok View Post
What detailed analysis leads people to believe that Barack should have a 20 point lead over McCain?
Three words: Right, Talk, Radio

This is how they are spinning it.
BVS is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 01:59 PM   #208
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
When Obama first introduced the comparison of himself to Paris Hilton
was he sending a subliminal message to lusting white women?
You could suspect both 'messages' of carrying sexist overtones without being unreasonable, though I think it's harder to argue against that perception in the case of the McCain ad. Paris Hilton=Tiresomely Omnipresent is a less loaded association than Hilton/Spears=Wanton, Incompetent Basket Case.

I don't see the racial analogy you're suggesting at all.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 02:07 PM   #209
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,390
Local Time: 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
So because you know everything

When Obama first introduced the comparison of himself to Paris Hilton
was he sending a subliminal message to lusting white women?

Is this the secret of his success?


you're comparing an off-the-cuff remark to a carefully planned and executed political ad?

and when it comes to assembling images in order to tell a story, i will defer to no one in FYM (except maybe Melon).
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 08-05-2008, 02:27 PM   #210
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 07:23 AM
Why did Obama not refer Tiger Woods?

Why was he thinking about Paris Hilton.


I am really not serious here
I just don't buy your arguments on that ad
deep is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 02:34 PM   #211
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by yolland View Post
You could suspect both 'messages' of carrying sexist overtones without being unreasonable, though I think it's harder to argue against that perception in the case of the McCain ad. Paris Hilton=Tiresomely Omnipresent is a less loaded association than Hilton/Spears=Wanton, Incompetent Basket Case.

I don't see the racial analogy you're suggesting at all.
My analogy was only in response to Irvine's
Quote:
a clean, articulate black man to sexually available white women
I don't believe McCain's ad was either
it is just referring to people that are celebrities
people that are famous or popular without a lot of accomplishments.

Obama has remarked similarly about himself.
deep is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 02:36 PM   #212
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,390
Local Time: 11:23 AM
i can think of more famous people than Britney or Paris, and people who are more current than Britney or Paris.

but they're not skinny white blond women who appear to have little between their heads.

ask yourself about that Harold Ford Jr. attack ad.
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 08-05-2008, 02:43 PM   #213
Blue Crack Addict
 
anitram's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: NY
Posts: 18,918
Local Time: 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
it is just referring to people that are celebrities
people that are famous or popular without a lot of accomplishments.

Obama has remarked similarly about himself.
I don't know about the Harold Ford thing, but this is really silly. Britney and Paris have virtually no accomplishments. You may think that Obama is not ready to be President, but he has accomplished more in his life than most people we know. I don't recall him ever saying that he hasn't accomplished things in life.

The ad made McCain look like a fool. When Kathy Hilton is lecturing you on being frivolous, the bottom has really been scraped. But I guess when you max out in donations to McCain, you can have him $hit on your kids too.
anitram is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 02:44 PM   #214
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 04:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
i can think of more famous people than Britney or Paris, and people who are more current than Britney or Paris.

but they're not skinny white blond women who appear to have little between their heads.

ask yourself about that Harold Ford Jr. attack ad.
Exactly... 'famous and popular without a lot of accomplishments' is certainly the obvious surface message and the main one, but you can't evaluate what subtexts might or might not be present without getting into questions of why these particular choices and not whichever other ones.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 02:49 PM   #215
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
ask yourself about that Harold Ford Jr. attack ad.

I thought that ad was crap, and it may have turned the election in Tenn.

Ford seemed to be a rising, capable politician.

And let's not kid ourselves, Tenn is a RED state, in the South.


but the Ford ad and the Obama ad are quite different.
deep is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 02:57 PM   #216
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
i can think of more famous people than Britney or Paris, and people who are more current than Britney or Paris.

but they're not skinny white blond women who appear to have little between their heads.

First thing we all have to admit

is that Obama was first to reference himself compared to Paris Hilton. check


second thing
is that Britney is getting a bum rap from all you Obama supporters check

she has quite a list of accomplisments


Grammy Awards

2000 Herself (Britney Spears) Best New Artist Nominated
"…Baby One More Time" Best Female Pop Vocal Performance Nominated

2001 "Oops!…I Did It Again" Best Female Pop Vocal Performance Nominated
Oops!…I Did It Again Best Pop Album Nominated

2003 "Overprotected" Best Female Pop Vocal Performance Nominated
Britney Best Pop Album Nominated

2005 "Toxic" Best Dance Recording Won

[edit] 1999

Awards in the year: 40

* AOL Awards
o Best New Artist
* Billboard Awards
o Female Artist of the Year
o Albums Artist of the Year
o Singles Artist Of The Year
o Best New Artist
* Bravo Gold Awardss
o Best International Female Vocalist


* Capital FM London Awards
o London’s Favourite International Female Artist
* Europe Awards
o Most Fanciable Female
o Best Dancer
o Best Female Hair
* Gold Disc Awards
o Best International New Artist
* Golden Bravo Otto Awards
o Best Liked Artist of 1999
* Hollywood Reporter
o Best female Artist
o New Artist of 1999
* France Mellier M6 Awards
o Best Video for "...Baby One More Time"
* MTV Europe Music Awards'
o Best Song for "...Baby One More Time"
o Best Pop Act
o Best Female Solo Artist
o Best Breakthrough Act
* Much Music Awards
o Best International Artist
* Music Week Awards
o Highest Selling Singles Artist in the UK for "...Baby One More Time"
* Premios Amigos (Spain)
o Best International Artist
* Popcorn Awards
o Best International Artist
* Austria Rennbarn Express Awards
o Best New Artist
* Rockbear Awards from Aftonbladett (Sweden)
o Best New Artist
* Spanish Premios Amigo Awards
o Best International Female
* Smash Hits Poll Winner
o Best Female Solo Artist
o Best Dressed Female
o Most Fanciable Female
o Best Dancer
o Best Female Hair
* Teen Choice Awards
o Choice Single "...Baby One More Time"
* Holland TMF Awards
o Best Newcomer
* Indonesia Magazine Music Awards
o Best New Artist - Baby One More Time (*tied wth Westlife)
o Best Female - Baby One More Time
o Best Pop Song - Baby One More Time
o Best Song - Baby One More Time (*tied with Backstreet Boys' I Want It That Way)
o Best Dance - (You Drive Me) Crazy
o Best Video - Baby One More Time
o Trendsetter Of The Year (special award)

[edit] 2000

Awards in the year: 26

* American Music Awards
o Favorite Pop/Rock New Artist
* Billboard Awards
o Album Artist of 2000
o World-Record Breaker Of 2000 For "Oops!... I Did It Again"
* Germany Bravo Gold Awards
o Best International Female Vocalist
* Bravo Supershow Awards
o Best Female Artist
* UK Capital 95.8 FM London Awards
o Best International Female Artist
* Dansk Grammy Award
o Best International New Artist
* Canadian Juno Awards
o Best-Selling Album (...Baby One More Time)
* Nickelodeon Kids Choice Awards
o Favourite Female Singer
* Europe NRJ Radio Awards
o Best International Female Artist
* People's Choice awards
o Best International Artist
* Smash Hits Poll Winners
o Best Dressed Female
o Best Female
o Best Female Haircut
o Best Dancer In Pop Music
o Most Fanciable Female
* Teen Choice Awards
o Choice Female Artist
o Choice Hottie Female
* TMF Music Awards
o Best Foreign Female
o Best Newcomer
* World Music Awards
o World's best selling Pop Female Artist
* Indonesia Magazine Music Awards
o Best Female - Oops..! I Did It Again
o Best Song - Oops..! I Did It Again **Best Pop Song - Oops..! I Did It Again
o Best Album - Oops..! I Did It Again
o Artist Of the Year
* Yahoo!
o Top Searched Artist of the year

[edit] 2001

Awards in the year: 18

* Blockbuster Entertainment Awards
o Favorite Pop Female Artist
* Echo Awards (Germany)
o Best Female Artist
* J-14 Awards
o Best Tattoo
o Best Piercing
* Nickelodeon's Choice Awards
o Favorite Female Singer
* Rolling Stone Magazine Awards
o Artist of the Year
* Smash Hit Awards
o Best Female Artist
* Pepsi Awards
o Peoples Choice for Best Female
* Premios Mixup
o Favourite Female Artist
* Teen Choice Awards
o Choice Hottie Female
* VH1 Awards
o Best Bellybutton Appearance
* World Music Awards
o World's best-selling Pop Female Artist
o World's best-selling Dance Female Artist
* Indonesia Magazine Music Awards
o Best Female - Lucky
o Best Pop Song - Lucky
o Best Dance - Stronger
o Artist Of the Year
* Yahoo!
o Top Searched Artist of the year

[edit] 2002

Awards in the year: 13

* Barbie Award
o Barbie Girl
* Cosmopolitan Magazine
o Fun, Fearless Female Of The Year
* 23rd Golden Raspberry Awards
o Worst Actress for Crossroads (tied with Madonna)
o Worst Original Song for "I'm Not a Girl, Not Yet a Woman"
* Indonesia Magazine Music Awards
o Best Female - I'm a Slave 4 U
o Best Dance - I'm a Slave 4 U
o Hottest Video - I'm a Slave 4 U (special award)
* MTV Asia Awards
o Best Female Artist
* Neil Bogart Memorial Fund
o Children's Choice Award
* Popstar Magazine
o Poptastic Female Singer
* Rolling Stone Magazine Award
o Best Dressed Female
o Best Female artist,
* Teen Choice Awards
* Yahoo!
o Top Searched Artist of the year

[edit] 2003

Awards in the year: 11

* Hollywood Walk of Fame
o Recipient
* Hollywood Life Magazine
o The 10 Most Toned in a new Hollywood
* Japan Golden Disc Awards
o Best International New Artist
o Best International Music Video ("I'm Not A Girl, Not Yet A Woman")
* Glamour Magazine UK
o Woman Of The Year
* Golden Music Awards
o Best International Video for "I'm Not a Girl, Not Yet a Woman"
* Popstar Magazine
o Poptastic Female Singer
* TRL Awards
o First Lady Award
* Indonesia Magazine Music Awards
o Best Pop Song - I'm Not A Girl, Not Yet A Woman
o Best Dance - Overprotected
* Yahoo!
o Top Searched Artist of the year

[edit] 2004

Awards in the year: 16

* Billboard Awards
o Best-selling Dance Single of the Year- Me Against the Music
* Brasil Music Award
o Best International Female Artist
* 25th Golden Raspberry Awards
o Worst Supporting Actress for Fahrenheit 9/11
* MTV Europe Music Awards
o Best Female Artist of the Year
* Nickelodeon Kids Choice Awards
o Choice Song: Toxic
* Popstar Magazine
o Popastic Video Right Now (Toxic)
* Rockbear Awards
o Critics' Choice Best Video of the Year ("My Prerogative")
* Teen Choice Awards
o Choice Single ("Toxic")
* Holland TMF Awards
o Gridlock Award
* TRL Awards
o Gridlock Award
* Indonesia Magazine Music Awards
o Best Female Artist - Me Against The Music
o Best Dance - Me Against The Music
o Best Collaboration - Me Against The Music (with Madonna)
o Best Style in a Video - Me Against The Music (special award)
* Visual Effects Society
o Best Visual Effects in a Music Video - Toxic
* Yahoo!
o Top Searched Artist of the year

[edit] 2005

Awards in the year: 14

* BMI Cable Awards
o Best Television Theme Song ("Follow Me" from Zoey 101)
* Golden Music Awards
o Music Video of the Year - Toxic
o Rock/Pop Album of the Year - ("Greatest Hits: My Prerogative")
* Groovevolt Awards
o Video of the Year: Toxic
o Best Female Album: In The Zone
o Best Song Performance by a Female Artist: Everytime
o Most Fashionable Artist
* Grammy Awards
o Best Dance Recording - Toxic
* Indonesia Magazine Music Awards
o Best Pop Song - Everytime
o Best Dance - Toxic
o Best Video - Everytime
o Artist Of the Year
o Hottest Female of the Year (special award)
* Yahoo!
o Top Searched Artist of the year

[edit] 2006

Awards in the year: 7

* Indonesian Magazine Music Awards
o Best Pop Song - Someday (I Will Understand)
o Best Unreleased Track/Song - I've Just Begun (Having My Fun)
* Vh1 Big In 06' Awards
o Big Mama
* Covina 06' Awards
o Best Female Artist
o Best Pop Song - Someday (I Will Understand)
* Yahoo!
o Top Searched Artist of the year
* Israel Teen Choice Awards
o Best female singer

[edit] 2007

Awards in the year: 5

* Billboard Music Poll
o Best Album of 2007, "Blackout"
* Billboard Readers' Choice
o Album of the Year
* MTV & VH1 (U.S)
o Can't Hardly Wait for new Album
* Teen Choice Awards
o Newsmaker of The Year - Britney Spears Shaves Her Head
* Yahoo!
o Top Searched Artist of the Year

[edit] 2008

Awards in the year: 19

* Alfa Music Awards
o Best album - Blackout
* Apelzin Awards
o BestPop Artist
* Cannes International Music Awards
o Best album of the year - Blackout
* Hit Music Awards
o Best International Album
o Best Song (Gimme More)
o Best International Female Artist
* Imperio Music Awards
o Best album - Blackout
o Return of the year - Britney Spears ( Gimme More )
o Best Female Video (Gimme More)
o Sexiest Video ( Gimme More )
* iTunes
o Best Pop Album of the Year
* NRJ Music Awards
o Best International Album - Blackout
* Yahoo! Music Award
o Best Female Artist
o Album Of The Year
o Song Of The Year (Piece Of Me)
* World Video Music Awards
o Best Álbum - Blackout
o Best Song Of Remixes - Gimme More
o Best Artist Female
o Best Álbum Female - Blackout
deep is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 02:59 PM   #217
Forum Moderator
 
yolland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 04:23 PM
^ Actually that's not inconsistent with what I was saying at all, and I'm not sure it's inconsistent with what Irvine was saying either.
__________________
yolland [at] interference.com


μελετώ αποτυγχάνειν. -- Διογένης της Σινώπης
yolland is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 03:05 PM   #218
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Band-aid
 
mobvok's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: boom clap
Posts: 4,435
Local Time: 07:23 AM
Ok we've jumped the shark. We did it in 2004 when people suddenly started researching 30 year old typewriters to see if Bush's TANG record was legit, now we're researching Britney Spears' accomplishments to see if she compares to Obama.

However I agree with your point deep that Britney actually has been a hard worker. Paris is the only one of the two who is famous merely for being famous.
mobvok is offline  
Old 08-05-2008, 03:05 PM   #219
Blue Crack Supplier
 
Irvine511's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,390
Local Time: 11:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post
but the Ford ad and the Obama ad are quite different.

i agree that the Obama ad is far subtler than the Ford ad, which was quite brazen. but i think both are playing off the same below-the-surface fear held in many of these red states, fears written about in, say, To Kill A Mockingbird.

it's not so much that the ad is implying the subtext, like the Ford ad did, but that it is suggesting the subtext.

bottom line is this: in some parts of the country, juxtaposing images of a black man with images of young white women is going to set off certain knee-jerk reactions. for some, it's the unfounded fear of black men wanting to rape white women (one of the primary "motivations" over centuries of lynchings), or it might be the fear of a black man getting all "presumptuous" and luring white women away from other white men. and Rove knows this. and Rove will use this.
Irvine511 is online now  
Old 08-05-2008, 03:17 PM   #220
Blue Crack Addict
 
deep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,601
Local Time: 07:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post

bottom line is this: in some parts of the country, juxtaposing images of a black man with images of young white women is going to set off certain knee-jerk reactions. and Rove knows this. and Rove will use this.
I do get what you are saying here

but if seeing a black man with white women bugs you
then the odds are, you already were not going to vote for Obama
__________________

deep is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×