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Old 10-14-2013, 12:37 AM   #701
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This is not an answer to my request.
You won't get one.
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:04 PM   #702
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Palin and Cruz, together at last:

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Sens. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) and Mike Lee (R-Utah) and former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin (R) attended a rally protesting the closure of the World War II Memorial, according to reports.

The lawmakers and the former governor – and 2008 GOP vice-presidential nominee – joined a crowd that removed barricades at the memorial and chanted “tear down these walls,” according to Washington, D.C., radio station WTOP.

Cruz told the crowd that President Obama is using military veterans as “pawns” to draw support for his argument in the budget impasse, which has resulted in the two-week closure of the federal government and the memorial.

Cruz and Lee spearheaded a Republican effort to tie funding for government agencies beyond Oct. 1 to defunding Obama’s signature healthcare law. Democrats refused to make changes to the healthcare law, insisting on a “clean” bill for federal funding.

The standoff has resulted in a shutdown of the federal government for the first time in 17 years.
Palin similarly placed blame for the closure of the World War II Memorial on President Obama.

“Our veterans have allowed us to be here today standing up for our First Amendment rights so that we can express their optimism,” she said. “[Obama] could be here today standing up and saying, ‘Yes, we can tear down these barricades.'”

The presence of a Confederate flag at the protest, which later moved to the White House, sparked an uproar on Twitter.


Read more: Cruz, Lee, Palin join memorial protest - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room
Follow us: @thehill on Twitter | TheHill on Facebook





just as offensive as the Confederate flag were these comments:

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The rally, billed as the "Million Vet March on the Memorials," drew far fewer than a million people and evolved into a protest that resembled familiar tea party events from 2009, with yellow "Don't Tread On Me" flags throughout the crowd and strong anti-Obama language from the podium and the audience.

One speaker went as far as saying the president was a Muslim and separately urged the crowd of hundreds to initiate a peaceful uprising.

"I call upon all of you to wage a second American nonviolent revolution, to use civil disobedience, and to demand that this president leave town, to get up, to put the Quran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come out with his hands up," said Larry Klayman of Freedom Watch, a conservative political advocacy group.

Rallier tells Obama to ‘put the Quran down’ – CNN Political Ticker - CNN.com Blogs


and some analysis:

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It’s fascinating because it’s a riveting, candid insight into the forces that are behind the government shut-down and the debt-ceiling blackmail of the country and the world. They do not believe this president is a legitimate president. It is beyond their understanding that he was re-elected handily, or that he commands, even during this assault on our system of government, far more support than the Tea Party. Let’s not be mealy-mouthed. This speaker, Larry Klayman of Freedom Watch, accuses the president of treason in this speech, of deliberately pursuing policies to kill members of the armed services, because he is an Islamist, and allegedly “bows to Allah”. What he is saying is the president is a deliberate mole of foreign agents determined to destroy the American way of life. And there is no pushback from the crowd and no pushback from GOP leaders.

This is what we’re dealing with. This is not an alternative budget; it is not another way of insuring millions and cutting healthcare costs; it is not a contribution to anything but to the logic of nullification of an election. It is yet another declaration of cold civil war – a call for a nonviolent refusal to be governed by a re-elected president because he is pursuing policies with which an electorally defeated minority disagree. Simply pursuing those policies has rendered Obama a “monarch” who is arguing “his way or the highway.” But all Obama is doing is implementing a campaign promise and settled law, while governing under a continuing resolution that reflects the sequester’s level of spending, a level agreed to by the Republicans. He wants a budget agreement between the House and Senate in a conference that the Republican House has long resisted entering. He has said that he is happy to negotiate with anyone on anything as long as the blackmail of a government shut-down and of a threatened global depression are ended. And his record shows that he has compromised again and again – as his own most fervent supporters look on in dismay.

I’m not privy to the negotiations now going on in the Senate and can only glean from outsiders what the meetings with legislators have been like. But I’m not distorting the raw facts of the situation here, or trying to distract from them. And I’d love a much more expansive Grand Bargain on taxes and entitlements, that could ease our long-term debt (but it would have to be a bargain, not merely a set of Republican demands). But the rank threats of unimaginably radical consequences if a re-elected president doesn’t junk what he was re-elected to do are so foul in their lack of concern about the common good, so poisonous in their slander of a president, and so contemptuous of our orderly system of government, that it is vital the threats do not work and are not accommodated. No president of any party has any right to legitimize such an attack on the American system of government and the way it conducts business – by elections, debates, compromises and budgets, not threats of total government shut-down and the collapse of the dollar if our global credit rating is effectively destroyed overnight.

I hoped we’d be nearing some kind of deal at this point, rather than witnessing this upping of the ante from the forces that truly live on the fringes of the far right, but which, without any resistance, have now defined the Republican party. It is no accident that among those addressing this rally to blackmail the country and the world were Sarah Palin and Ted Cruz. I can see a very powerful populist electoral ticket with both of those on it – either of a third Tea Party or of an even more radicalized GOP. And perhaps that is the only way to expunge this nihilist extremism from our system. Except that it may succeed in expunging the system and the economy before we can test it where in a democracy we are accustomed to test it: in elections, not in the chaos of economic blackmail.

This Is Where We Are � The Dish
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Old 10-14-2013, 01:48 PM   #703
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The GOP's little rule change they hoped you wouldn't notice

House Rule XXII, Clause 4 (prior to the shutdown):

"When the stage of disagreement has been reached on a bill or resolution with House or Senate amendments, a motion to dispose of any amendment shall be privileged."

ie - any House member can bring up the motion to get rid of an amendment and move on. This standing rule was amended by the House (ie, Republicans) with the following resolution:

"Any motion pursuant to Clause 4 of Rule 22 relating to the house joint resolution may be offered only by the majority leader or his designee."

So, in other words (or just watch the video), the Republicans amended the rule to remove the privilege from any member of the house to call up the bill to reopen the government, and give that power only to the Republican leader or whoever he designates.

1) Democracy in action!
2) Hypothetically speaking (of course), if this is not your shutdown, you did not want this shutdown, and it's cruel for this shutdown to continue, why would you change the rules (right at the start of the shutdown) so that you and you alone have the power to decide when it's time to reopen the government?

#obamashutdown
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:28 PM   #704
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"I call upon all of you to wage a second American nonviolent revolution, to use civil disobedience, and to demand that this president leave town, to get up, to put the Quran down, to get up off his knees, and to figuratively come out with his hands up," said Larry Klayman of Freedom Watch, a conservative political advocacy group.
What a dumb, racist hick.
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:33 PM   #705
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What a dumb, racist hick.
And yet not one prominent Republican leader will have the courage to call him out.
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:36 PM   #706
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You don't bite the hand that feeds you...
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:39 PM   #707
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Which is why the political atmosphere in this country is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. When you allow this kind of rhetoric to float around unchecked, no good can come of it.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:52 PM   #708
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It also doesn't help that there are many Americans who agree with that lowlife.
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:09 PM   #709
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It also doesn't help that there are many Americans who agree with that lowlife.

Not that many though. The Tea Party is a minority within a minority. They are deeply unpopular, just noisy.

What I find interesting is their epistemic closure to any information that disagrees with their movement. We saw some of this with the "unskewed polls" in 2012 that predicted a Romney win. It reminds me of a religious fundamentalist mindset, only as applied to politics. The same mindset (and "proof" and "experts" and language about how knowledge is "intolerant") that enables people to believe the world is 4000 years old.
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Old 10-14-2013, 06:24 PM   #710
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I haven't read most of this thread, but it really sickens me when I see people post on Facebook that Obama is directly responsible for the shutdowns of things like memorials and national parks. And they blame Obama for the coming economic disaster if and when the debt ceiling isn't raised before default. Just absolutely disgusting.
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Old 10-14-2013, 08:34 PM   #711
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Which is why the political atmosphere in this country is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. When you allow this kind of rhetoric to float around unchecked, no good can come of it.

I dunno. Maybe this will snap the Republicans out of it, and they can get back to some kind of normalcy.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:07 AM   #712
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I dunno. Maybe this will snap the Republicans out of it, and they can get back to some kind of normalcy.
Haven't we been saying that ever since they lost the last two presidential elections, Senate elections, and the popular vote (gerrymandering notwithstanding) in last year's House election?
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:40 AM   #713
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Perhaps we need to change the primary system - so that moderates can actually get past them.
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Old 10-15-2013, 10:56 AM   #714
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I don't think the primary system is the biggest culprit because it is very typical, not just in the US, but other democracies that primaries are typically attended by only the most fervent party faithful. Participation in free elections in many countries where voting isn't mandatory is at pretty low levels as it is, so participation in primaries is always going to be something that attracts a particular sort of person.

The two-party system in the US is what doesn't work. Yes, you can look at places like Italy and bemoan their almost constant elections and inefficiencies, but having a multi-party system gives more people a voice and also allows for practical deal-making to be made. People are forced to work with each other much more, and often end up in strange alliances where their ideologies may be 180 degrees apart.

Imagine how different the debt ceiling and CR debate would be today if the Tea Party was a separate faction?
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:30 PM   #715
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I don't see this shit ever ending. It will take one of the parties having a majority in senate and house to push anything through.

It's just so sad to see this country reduced to this crap over and over again
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:36 PM   #716
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It's just so sad to see this country reduced to this crap over and over again

it's part of the plan for economic sabotage on the part of the GOP.

these are not conservatives, these are radicals who are willing to wreck the global economy.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:44 PM   #717
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also, it's been really awesome having family in town and NO open Smithsonians to take them to.

it's kind of shitty to have to tell a 10 year old that he can't go to the Air and Space Museum because Ted Cruz is an asshole.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:48 PM   #718
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also, it's been really awesome having family in town and NO open Smithsonians to take them to.

it's kind of shitty to have to tell a 10 year old that he can't go to the Air and Space Museum because Ted Cruz is an asshole.
Somebody asked Newt Gingrich how foreign tourists feel and he said they're amazed by how free America is and how the government works in the context of that freedom. With an absolute straight face, lol.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:02 PM   #719
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Somebody asked Newt Gingrich how foreign tourists feel and he said they're amazed by how free America is and how the government works in the context of that freedom. With an absolute straight face, lol.
I get a kick out of any American who boasts about how free this country is. I had no idea Canada, France, Germany, Norway and so many other countries are like North Korea.
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:08 PM   #720
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it's part of the plan for economic sabotage on the part of the GOP. these are not conservatives, these are radicals who are willing to wreck the global economy.
Agree. It's always been on GOP. Not that Dems are saints either, but when it comes to mass chaos regarding the country, it's on one party.

The GOP is tearing itself apart tho, so maybe some moderates can get the balls to step up and end it. Create a new party, even the left could do that. Split the fanatics on both sides.
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