United States of Entropy

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Why? Why should there be ANY compromise on the ACA?

Because the majority of your brothers and sisters (you know, your fellow citizens) don't want it in its current form.

[cobl04]

I can't believe you're all still arguing about Universal Health Care.

[Axver]

Originally Posted by cobl04

I can't believe you're all still arguing about Universal Health Care.

Yeah, the 1970s called, they want their controversy back.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by cobl04

I can't believe you're all still arguing about Universal Health Care.

The funny thing is - I support Universal Health Care. I consider it a basic, human right. This Affordable Care Act is an overly complicated boondoggle with special interest groups flying around it like flies on shite.

Our politicians are thieves - yet both "sides" have their volunteer soldiers that steadily march to bumper sticker slogans and snarky tweets. Those in power don't have to worry much, they have the blind pawns to do all the work for them.

Why anyone would register for either one of these parties is beyond me.

[cobl04]

So why don't more people start voting Greens, Libertarian, etc. I understand they don't have a realistic chance but it gives more people a voice and might shake up the two major parties.

[LemonMelon]

Both parties are a farce and the interaction between them is somehow 10 times worse. You'd think people would have figured out by now that both options are a dead end and choose another one, but we're in a bad cycle of defensive voting to cancel out the greater of two evils, so we can't actually choose a good option.

[cobl04]

It's largely the same here, though thankfully the Greens have a voice and also a Senate seat.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by AEON

Because the majority of your brothers and sisters (you know, your fellow citizens) don't want it in its current form.

Give it a chance.

If it's so awful when poor people suddenly have health insurance, then the American people will have ample opportunity to elect Republicans who can change or repeal the law.

You know, like how adults would.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by cobl04

I can't believe you're all still arguing about Universal Health Care.

It shocks me too.

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Representatives are elected to govern, not to protest.

It would be fun to revisit the Wisconsin union ruckus from a couple of years ago to see if you felt the same way when Democratic state representatives fled and hide in Illinois to prevent the elected Republican legislature and elected Republican governor Scott Walker from passing right to work laws.

[anitram]

[BVS]

This is a breakdown of democracy, plain and simple. Of course all sides have played politics and used the process to their advantage, but have we ever had a minority hold the government hostage to change a law that is already on the books? Debt ceiling talks have always been about budgets, never about changing history.

This is a dangerous precedent these Tea Party children are playing. A minority representation has continued to lose their way so they're throwing a tantrum. Those that are defending this game, what will you do in the future when an extreme left sanction of the party holds the government hostage in order to defund a war that a Republican president started? Will you defend it and dismiss it as "it's in their rights"?

[BVS]

It's funny how these are always the same people who are decrying when a minority group tries to fight for their rights. Hypocritical entitled children.

[anitram]

Originally Posted by AEON

Because the majority of your brothers and sisters (you know, your fellow citizens) don't want it in its current form.

So, when in August of 2004, 67% of Americans believed that the Iraq war was a mistake, and yet Bush was re-elected shortly there after, did the Democrats attempt to defund the war in a budgetary resolution? In fact, Steny Hoyer openly mocked any such proposals by "rogue" Democrats like Kucinich and guess what, they went nowhere.

Because the Democrats simply DO NOT HAVE the equivalent of a Tea Party caucus on the left. Why is that so hard to accept for you, AEON? I've asked you over and over again to point out a group of individuals on their side who have as much say in governance from a minority position as the Tea Party has and you have just glossed over it.

The mere existence of these Tea Party Republicans is what is causing this issue. This much has been stated over and over again by rank and file Republicans and yet you refuse to accept it.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by INDY500

It would be fun to revisit the Wisconsin union ruckus from a couple of years ago to see if you felt the same way when Democratic state representatives fled and hide in Illinois to prevent the elected Republican legislature and elected Republican governor Scott Walker from passing right to work laws.

I'm sure you were outraged at those terrorists subverting the will of the people of Wisconsin

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by LemonMelon

Both parties are a farce and the interaction between them is somehow 10 times worse. You'd think people would have figured out by now that both options are a dead end and choose another one, but we're in a bad cycle of defensive voting to cancel out the greater of two evils, so we can't actually choose a good option.

Unfortunately, many Americans are either too lazy or too careless to start looking into other political parties. Some may rightfully believe voting for a third party would be a waste, but others have no clue about the other parties out there. They either don't care, don't want to care, or are too afraid to care. I'm seeing a lot of people like this and it scares and upsets me.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by Pearl

Unfortunately, many Americans are either too lazy or too careless to start looking into other political parties. Some may rightfully believe voting for a third party would be a waste, but others have no clue about the other parties out there. They either don't care, don't want to care, or are too afraid to care. I'm seeing a lot of people like this and it scares and upsets me.

I do agree that one of the overlooked things is how much blame for this lies at the feet if the American people, especially those in the "suicide caucus" districts. Certainly their influence has been assisted by gerrymandering, whipped into states of fear and loathing by Fox News, and given easy targets for whatever rage they feel (and reading conservative websites, rage seems to be the overriding emotion). Fortunately, this is a minority (30 house seats?) within an out-of-power party. It's not most Americans. It's not even most Republicans.

In a representative democracy, we get the government we deserve. We the people are partly to blame.

[anitram]

^

Of the 56% or whatever number AEON keeps citing - how many of them truly believe that the ACA imposes death panels, mandatory suicide counselling for grandmas, Obama will make them get rid of their own doctor and replace him/her with another one, etc?

Sheer ignorance is a great contributor to that number.

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

I do agree that one of the overlooked things is how much blame for this lies at the feet if the American people, especially those in the "suicide caucus" districts. Certainly their influence has been assisted by gerrymandering, whipped into states of fear and loathing by Fox News, and given easy targets for whatever rage they feel (and reading conservative websites, rage seems to be the overriding emotion). Fortunately, this is a minority (30 house seats?) within an out-of-power party. It's not most Americans. It's not even most Republicans.

In a representative democracy, we get the government we deserve. We the people are partly to blame.

There are plenty like that, but the ones I'm talking about who really don't care or are lazy. Tell them there's a government shutdown and its hurting the country, and they'll say, "Oh really? Oh OK" and then change the subject, like the issue is akin to one of the sinks in the office bathroom that isn't working well. I think some people are scared to think or give a damn. I don't know why, but they are.

[anitram]

As a side note, I think you'll see the GOP fold like a stack of cards on the debt ceiling.

My husband is an American economist at a global bank and he was just telling me yesterday that the amount of disgust on Wall Street at the Tea Party and the GOP is reaching levels he's never seen before. Not a chance that these corporate overlords will permit the Tea Party to sink the markets. You can count on it.