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Old 10-02-2013, 09:37 AM   #381
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I guess the biggest racist would be Barack Obama then. The White GOP House has only voted to delay Obama care, it's the president that has actually delayed for at least a year important portions of the law. With zero legal authority to do by the way.

INDY, can you tell me, when it comes to the Establishment GOP vs the Tea Party, who are the Sunnis and who are the Shiites?
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:48 AM   #382
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The White GOP House has only voted to delay Obama care, it's the president that has actually delayed for at least a year important portions of the law. With zero legal authority to do by the way.
So, what are these important portions that the president has delayed? Are you referring to the mandate on employers to ease the paperwork burden on those companies that already provide health insurance, thus reducing the administrative load and bureaucracy? Or are there other important portions that are delayed.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:09 AM   #383
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I guess the biggest racist would be Barack Obama then.
You never surprise, nor disappoint.
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Old 10-02-2013, 10:22 AM   #384
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That will likely be the case as long as Congress isn't controlled by one party.
It's usually a good thing - it forces the president of either party into the center (think Reagan's success and Clinton's success after 1994).

But the political environment today is so acerbic and re-election driven, neither side wants to compromise because when they run for another term, the challenger from their own party will portray them as a "traitor" to their cause.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:39 PM   #385
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But the political environment today is so acerbic and re-election driven, neither side wants to compromise because when they run for another term, the challenger from their own party will portray them as a "traitor" to their cause.
Actually, this is pretty much only a problem in the Republican Party at the moment. The Democrats have no such purity test like what the Tea Party is intimidating Republicans with. Which is why you're seeing such a deafening silence from moderate Republicans - they're afraid that if they don't toe the Tea Party line, they'll get replaced by someone who will.

The Tea Party is acting like mob "protection" within the Republican Party right now. Walking into the friendly neighborhood shops of its politicians and telling them "you know, it'd be a shame if something happened to your shop..." Which is appallingly brazen when it's contained to just one party, but unfortunately the Republican Party, unable to control the beast they've created and desperate to appear unified, have acquiesced to the extremists in their party and used the same extortionist methods on the rest of the country.
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Old 10-02-2013, 01:46 PM   #386
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Also, right now there are very gerrymandered congressional districts, thanks to Republican governors. While this obviously hurts Democrats and it's part of the reason why the Dems actually won the popular vote but not control of the House, interestingly enough it has come to hurt the Republicans as well.

The Republican members of congress in these gerrymandered districts are all uniformly terrified of being primaried by the craziest tea party member around. And when a district is so gerrymandered, you actually reduce the proportion of moderate republicans (or independents in cases where they can participate in the primary) who will be voting, thus essentially ceding that district to the biggest crazy around. Interesting dynamic.

At this point the only salvation I see is for the Tea Party to split off and form its own third party.
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Old 10-02-2013, 02:07 PM   #387
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Also, right now there are very gerrymandered congressional districts, thanks to Republican governors. While this obviously hurts Democrats and it's part of the reason why the Dems actually won the popular vote but not control of the House, interestingly enough it has come to hurt the Republicans as well.
Exactly. This is an enormous problem with electoral dynamics at the moment.
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Old 10-02-2013, 02:12 PM   #388
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this is amazing:

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If It Happened There ... the Government Shutdown

By Joshua Keating

WASHINGTON, DC - SEPTEMBER 30:

This is the first installment of “If It Happened There,” a regular feature in which American events are described using the tropes and tone normally employed by the American media to describe events in other countries.

WASHINGTON, United States—The typical signs of state failure aren’t evident on the streets of this sleepy capital city. Beret-wearing colonels have not yet taken to the airwaves to declare martial law. Money-changers are not yet buying stacks of useless greenbacks on the street.

But the pleasant autumn weather disguises a government teetering on the brink. Because, at midnight Monday night, the government of this intensely proud and nationalistic people will shut down, a drastic sign of political dysfunction in this moribund republic.

The capital’s rival clans find themselves at an impasse, unable to agree on a measure that will allow the American state to carry out its most basic functions. While the factions have come close to such a shutdown before, opponents of President Barack Obama’s embattled regime now appear prepared to allow the government to be shuttered over opposition to a controversial plan intended to bring the nation’s health care system in line with international standards.

Six years into his rule, Obama’s position can appear confusing, even contradictory. Though the executive retains control of the country’s powerful intelligence service, capable of the extrajudicial execution of the regime’s opponents half a world away, the president’s efforts to govern domestically have been stymied in the legislature by an extremist rump faction of the main opposition party.

The current rebellion has been led by Sen. Ted Cruz, a young fundamentalist lawmaker from the restive Texas region, known in the past as a hotbed of separatist activity. Activity in the legislature ground to a halt last week for a full day as Cruz insisted on performing a time-honored American demonstration of stamina and self-denial, which involved speaking for 21 hours, quoting liberally from science fiction films and children’s books. The gesture drew wide media attention, though its political purpose was unclear to outsiders.

With hours remaining until the government of the world’s richest nation runs out of money, attention now focuses on longtime opposition leader John Boehner, under pressure from both the regime and the radical elements of his own movement, who may be the only political figure with the standing needed to end the standoff.

While the country’s most recent elections were generally considered to be free and fair (despite threats against international observers), the current crisis has raised questions in the international community about the regime’s ability to govern this complex nation of 300 million people, not to mention its vast stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction.

Americans themselves are starting to ask difficult questions as well. As this correspondent’s cab driver put it, while driving down the poorly maintained roads that lead from the airport, “Do these guys have any idea what they’re doing to the country?”

Potential government shutdown: How would the U.S. media report on it if it were happening to another country?
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:13 PM   #389
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Actually, this is pretty much only a problem in the Republican Party at the moment.
Because the Democrats have the presidency. I don't believe for a moment that the Democrats (referring to the ones in the House and Senate) are so virtuous they would support a Republican president in today's climate. Maybe at moments in the past - but not today.
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:20 PM   #390
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Because the Democrats have the presidency. I don't believe for a moment that the Democrats (referring to the ones in the House and Senate) are so virtuous they would support a Republican president in today's climate. Maybe at moments in the past - but not today.


does the behavior of the Democratically controlled house form 2006-2008 under GWB compare to what is going on today?

does the behavior of the Democrats from 2001-2006, when they were in the minority in both houses and didn't have the presidency, compare to what's going on today?

when we seek to appear neutral or unbiased, despite one party's objectively unprecedented and unhinged conduct, we lessen the consequences of such conduct. there has to be opprobrium leveled at the extremism we see, lest it becomes normalized through equivocation. and then it gets more extreme and more extreme, and the parties seeking to be unbiased stray further and further from common sense.
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:23 PM   #391
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I don't particularly think so. The Democrats while in sway to corporations and what not like the Republicans, they adhere to a less rigid ideology. There positions tend to have a bit more of a natural sway to them. There is a tad less dogma, such as overt religious stuff and the constitution is sacrosanct (which is kinda just more religious stuff).

I don't know anyone over here who don't think the Republicans come across as just nuts. People tend not to have much an opinion on the democrats one way or the other.
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Old 10-02-2013, 04:54 PM   #392
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The majority of our politicians act like children; it's just that the Democrats are the middle schoolers, Republicans are 4th graders and the Tea Party are a bunch of spoiled toddlers going through an extended terrible twos phase.
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Old 10-02-2013, 06:53 PM   #393
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INDY, can you tell me, when it comes to the Establishment GOP vs the Tea Party, who are the Sunnis and who are the Shiites?
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Is "terrorists" actually too kind?

http://m.us.wsj.com/articles/a/SB100...?mg=reno64-wsj
Terrorist?

Is that what we are now calling peaceful Americans working through political and legislative processes to STOP or curtail what they perceive to be an unmoored-from-the-Constitution, out-of-control federal government that is spending the nation into unsustainable debt and economic ruin?
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:17 PM   #394
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Terrorist? Is that what we are now calling peaceful Americans working through political and legislative processes to STOP or curtail what they perceive to be an unmoored-from-the-Constitution, out-of-control federal government that is spending the nation into unsustainable debt and economic ruin?

What political and legislative process are they using to prevent the implementation of what is THE LAW as affirmed by both houses if Congress, the SCOTUS, and 2 national elections? It's THE LAW.

There are lots of laws I don't like, but I'm not holding the government hostage and keeping poor kids from going to Head Start because I can't get my way.

All this to prevent poor people from getting health care. You must be so proud.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:21 PM   #395
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I'm going to be away from computers for a month so I wanted to get this thread back on track with my opening two paragraphs from my introductory post:

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First, what this is and isn't.

This isn't to say these negative trends didn't precede President Obama, most did, often by decades, nor do I assume that the election of Mitt Romney was the solution to all our problems. Nor frankly am I enamored with the current Republican leadership. This is to say that President Obama has failed to provide the leadership this country needs and in fact over and over provides the wrong answers and prescriptions for our problems. Sadly the election of Barack Obama will only prolong and deepen what I see as our national entropy.

After the 2012 election I, like many conservatives, had to go micro for a while and concern myself only with work, church, friends and family. It was simply too sad to realize that the last chance to change course had come and gone and now my generation (born in the 60's and early 70's) was to be the first generation to pass on to our children a less prosperous America. One with less economic opportunity and optimism for the future.
And there is now amble proof that my generation will in fact be the first to leave a less opportunistic, less optimistic country to its prodigy.

http://online.wsj.com/public/resourc...orce092913.pdf

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“We can wishfully think that eventually it’s going to get better, but we don’t really know, and that doesn’t really help us now.” – Derek Wetherell, 23.

“This has been for quite a while now a hostile environment for young people…This is all they’ve really known.” – Paul Taylor, Pew Research Center.

“I have a hard time planning 10 years in the future when I can hardly plan three months in the future.” – John Connolly, 22.

"But there are signs that the weak economy is leading to deep societal changes. An entire generation is putting off the riturals of early adulthood: moving away, getting married, buying a home and having children."

“I kind of did everything I was quote-unquote ‘supposed’ to be doing.” -Connolly, 22.

“We end up paying a huge price for all of this because these kids don’t earn, they don’t pay taxes, they stay at home, they don’t get married.” -Andrew Sum, Northwestern University economist.

“In a recession, you’re probably going to be starting out at a lower wage at a less attractive firm… The first few years is about carving your path, and after three or four years you’re not newly minted anymore. You’ve chosen your career.” -Till von Wachter, UCLA economist.

“You don’t dream big.” – Emily Koehler, 23.
This is what this thread is about.
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Old 10-02-2013, 07:24 PM   #396
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When I think of the generation that screwed my generation's economy, I think of the current Republican Party.
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:13 PM   #397
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The Bush years of endless war and unfunded tax cuts do seem like the logical starting point.

Sounds entropic to me.
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:19 AM   #398
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The Bush years of endless war and unfunded tax cuts do seem like the logical starting point.

Sounds entropic to me.
I don't see how anyone can seriously think that one political party, made up of your fellow citizens, is actually to blame for all the ills of a nation. It seems so narrow-minded and...boring.
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:20 AM   #399
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The majority of our politicians act like children; it's just that the Democrats are the middle schoolers, Republicans are 4th graders and the Tea Party are a bunch of spoiled toddlers going through an extended terrible twos phase.
Sounds about right...I would only have the Democrats in 5th grade, but you're close.
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Old 10-03-2013, 12:21 AM   #400
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When I think of the generation that screwed my generation's economy, I think of the current Republican Party.
That doesn't make any sense - a political party is not a "generation"
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