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Old 02-09-2013, 05:04 PM   #21
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Stop proving my point by insisting on being such a dimwit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/17/he...bese.html?_r=0

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By PAM BELLUCK
Published: March 17, 2005

For the first time in two centuries, the current generation of children in America may have shorter life expectancies than their parents, according to a new report, which contends that the rapid rise in childhood obesity, if left unchecked, could shorten life spans by as much as five years.

The report, to be published Thursday in The New England Journal of Medicine, says the prevalence and severity of obesity is so great, especially in children, that the associated diseases and complications - Type 2 diabetes, heart disease, kidney failure, cancer - are likely to strike people at younger and younger ages.

"Obesity is such that this generation of children could be the first basically in the history of the United States to live less healthful and shorter lives than their parents," said Dr. David S. Ludwig, director of the obesity program at Children's Hospital Boston, and one of the authors of the report.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:04 PM   #22
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I don't think I'm alone in the outsider's perspective that America is a bickering us-against-them nation. Granted, you're not at war with one another, so credit where credit is due.
You've also let way too much money work its way into your political process; to the point that nobody is really sure who's running the joint anymore.
You've also got a highest percentage of the population behind bars than other other country on the planet.

Indeed, there are problems when you are 310m diverse people stretched across a vast continent. Agreed about the prisons, and our comparative violence (though crime has dropped dramatically since the Clinton years), and our messy politics. I would have also said health are, but thankfully universal coverage is on the way.

So, yes, we got problems. But I think "a fucking mess" is the maple leaf sewed on every suitcase an item of clothing talking.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:08 PM   #23
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So, yes, we got problems. But I think "a fucking mess" is the maple leaf sewed on every suitcase an item of clothing talking.
hahaha. I'm one of the least patriotic people going (I'm happy to live here, but it certainly doesn't define me). But point taken
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:10 PM   #24
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Stop proving my point by insisting on being such a dimwit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/17/he...bese.html?_r=0
OK, but this has more to do with lack of exercise and healthy meals than the decline of American values. This is not related to the economoy or progressive values.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:12 PM   #25
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Stop proving my point by insisting on being such a dimwit.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/17/he...bese.html?_r=0
Oh, I forgot too add:

Way too many fat people
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:15 PM   #26
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OK, but this has more to do with lack of exercise and healthy meals than the decline of American values. This is not related to the economoy or progressive values.
The example I gave actually related to the job market and the original post. Pretty good for a dimwit.

Yeah, there are a lot of fat people in America. There have been for a long time, no reason to blame that solely on the current administration.
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:18 PM   #27
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no reason to blame that solely on the current administration.
You Obama shills have such short memories

CNN - President Obama: "A Krispy Kreme in every cafeteria in the nation"
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Old 02-09-2013, 05:29 PM   #28
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I just got through a blizzard, can't worry about all that. Sorry.

Life sucks then you die.
No more snow!!!!


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I don't ever actually wish I lived in a different country either. Just some place warmer, with no snow.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:03 PM   #29
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You (as the OP) sound like one of the Roman writers from the final century of the Western Empire, or most of the folk who thought the world was going to end in 1000AD which was surprisingly a lot of people. Society is far from getting worse and could still get better in how we treat people. Last days of empire and all that yada yada.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:20 PM   #30
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Last days of republic, more like. If only there were a strong leader in the provinces who could take charge, a first citizen of some kind.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:27 PM   #31
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Ronus Paulus? Jebius Bushius? Newtius Gringus or even Sarus Palinian?
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:03 PM   #32
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Biggus Dickus.

He has a wife, you know.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:10 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by LJT View Post
You (as the OP) sound like one of the Roman writers from the final century of the Western Empire, or most of the folk who thought the world was going to end in 1000AD which was surprisingly a lot of people. Society is far from getting worse and could still get better in how we treat people. Last days of empire and all that yada yada.

The world did go into decline after the Western Empire finally withered away though. The middle ages were a cesspool.

(Not agreeing with the premise of the thread, however)
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:14 PM   #34
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Not really interested in the sanctimonious bullshit debate on the so-called state of our nations morals, so I present you with a song....



Bad Religion - Entropy

random blobs of power expressed as that which we all disregard,
ordered states of nature on a scale that no one thinks about,
don't speak to me of anarchy of peace or calm revolt,
man, we're in a play of slow decay orchestrated by boltzmann,

it's entropy, it's not a human issue,
entropy, it's a matter of course,
entropy, energy at all levels,
entropy, from it you can not divorce
and your pathetic moans of suffrage tend to lose all significance,

extinction, degradation;
the natural outcomes of our ordered lives,
power, motivation; temporary fixtures for which we strive,
something in our synapses assures us we're ok
but in our disquilibrium we simply can not stay,
it's entropy......

a stolid proposition from a man unkempt as I,
my affectatious I can not rectify,
but we are out of equilibrium unnaturally,
a pang of consciousness of death
and then you will agree
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:21 PM   #35
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The world did go into decline after the Western Empire finally withered away though. The middle ages were a cesspool.

(Not agreeing with the premise of the thread, however)
The world didn't go into decline, Western Europe yes, but depends what you mean by decline, life went on quite similarly for a lot of folk. Eastern half of the Empire did alright for another couple hundred of years. The Arabs did quite well and kept up a lot of the supposedly forgotten knowledge of the Romans, they held up the academic side of things quite well and for the most part were also quite multicultural. China I do believe was doing grand at the time as well, but i'm less familiar with their history.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:26 PM   #36
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The world didn't go into decline, Western Europe yes, but depends what you mean by decline, life went on quite similarly for a lot of folk. Eastern half of the Empire did alright for another couple hundred of years. The Arabs did quite well and kept up a lot of the supposedly forgotten knowledge of the Romans, they held up the academic side of things quite well and for the most part were also quite multicultural. China I do believe was doing grand at the time as well, but i'm less familiar with their history.
Yes, sorry, I was referring to Western European civilization. They certainly took a lot of steps backward in respect to sanitation, city planning, etc
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:30 PM   #37
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The Arabs ..kept up a lot of the supposedly forgotten knowledge of the Romans, they held up the academic side of things quite well
I wish this point would be brought up more often to certain groups of people
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:55 PM   #38
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People are selective in their history and they hark back to an era of prosperity that didn't really exist for all.

I do find it funny that the 'personal responsibility brigade' are oh so willing to blame everything that's wrong with the world on somebody else, 'big government', 'the undeserving poor'.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:23 PM   #39
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Thanks for your response. I agree with many things you say but I'll give you my perspective on some of your answers.

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Some of what you've mentioned is happening in other countries too, not just in America, or they are nothing new.

Faith in God is mocked in Europe, Canada, Australia and other industrialized places.
True, I admitted as much in my opening. But wouldn't it be prudent to learn from the errors of Europe's massive Welfare State, debt and experiments in multiculturalism rather than repeating their mistakes decades later?
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I'm not quite sure what you mean by individual initiative, so please explain.
It's the first step in self-reliance. It's doing what needs to be done without being told. It's how businesses are created. It's the opposite of waiting for someone to give you what you need.

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There are plenty with a strong work ethic in this country. I suspect you are looking at a small group of people being lazy and thinking this is the future of the entire country.
There is, but how do you think that is affected when you have to earn at least $X in salary to come out ahead of someone on Welfare payments, food stamps, Medicaid, Sec 8, free day-care, heating assistance, free cell phone service, etc, etc. It takes a lot of individual initiative to work and be self-reliant instead.

What happens as the stigma to living on the dole lessens and it's seen as a personal choice not to be morally condemned?
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Personal responsibility has always been a human problem. In the past, people blamed the devil or someone else for their problems. Nowadays, it's our parents' fault or a co-worker or whoever. It isn't good to not be responsible for yourself, but it is not easy. I think it takes a lot of self-respect and strength to have full personal responsibility. Also, this is a problem everywhere in the world; there's not one society that is free from dishonesty.
I agree, personal responsibility is a major reason the Founders thought our Constitution required a people of faith. A secular government but a religious populace. A self-controlled citizen doesn't require a controlling government (tyranny). My question is, if many citizens learn from the Bible the value of personal responsibility why isn't that seen as a good thing? One doesn't have to believe the theology to recognize the wisdom in the Bible. That's the question I'd like to see asked of religion bashers. But I never see it.

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True, not too many people are frugal with their money, but that's a long standing problem throughout the world.
The generation that went through the Depression was and they lived their entire lives that way because they knew it could happen again. And it will. Do you think the materialistic messages in pop culture contribute?

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There are plenty of progressives who are proud of America. Just because people have different political beliefs than you does not mean they all hate this country and want to destroy it.
Destroy no... but "fundamental transformation" can't happen soon enough for the far-Left.

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I think families have always been dysfunctional. Husbands and wives got married too young and since divorce was taboo, stayed together for miserable decades. Doesn't sound like a stable home to me. I do agree that families need to be strengthened, but that comes down to personal responsibility and the need to look ahead into the future and accept the changes - gender equality, same-sex parenting, etc. - as human evolution, rather than looking back at the good old days which weren't really so great.
We have 40 years of evidence of the Great Society's influence in the breakup of the family through perverse welfare incentives. Marriage rates are down, the rate of children born out of wedlock goes higher every decade and yet almost the entire West is now at a negative reproduction rate.

I can think of no better term than entropy for a civilization that can't even be bothered to genetically replace itself.
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Culture may be rotting, but that has more to do with Hollywood and record companies trying to shock audiences for the sake of money. I think the average movie watcher of music listener just accepts what entertainment says and doesn't question the semantics.
Maybe Sandyhook will finally open some eyes.

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Academics is in decline in many ways. On one hand, you have students who can barely read their grade level. On the other, you have students being taught creationism as a legitimate fact, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and the fact that the U.S. is the only industrialized country debating evolution.
I don't happen to believe in Creationism but you can still be an engineer, orthodontist, biologist or lawyer after being taught Creationism, if you don't read however you can't.
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Narcissism is a worldwide problem, not just an American issue.
And it would be narcissistic to think so.

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INDY, I think you see our country as the super great, unique, utopia-like place, when it really never was. Yes, it is great that a simple country developed into a huge economic and political superpower, but we've always had our flaws. But you seem to think America and its people are unlike other countries and other people in the world. We're all human.
No, my utopia is in the next life. I just want a country where the individual matters more than the government. His sovereignty takes precedence, he is free to find his own potential, purse his own interests, follow his own faith and keep his own property while respecting the unalienable rights of others to do the same.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:37 PM   #40
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So what happened to the great empires and powers of the past? Were they conquered by invaders from beyond their borders or did they decay into moral decadence, bankruptcy, ethnic polarization and economic stagnation and fall at the hand of civil war and revolution from within?
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