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Old 03-31-2008, 09:03 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diemen


To be fair to diamond, he did say "some" and not most.
Some of us read what we want to see.



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Old 03-31-2008, 09:05 PM   #62
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My bad, I misread that one.
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:07 PM   #63
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My point in citing the Republicans in the civil rights movement of 64 is those that did that then (Republicans) are what represent the majority of the core beliefs of the GOP now, and the civil rights movement needed the help of those Republicans-and they received it because those Republicans "got it" in 1964.

Futhurmore, I will take the core beliefs of Condi and Colin over Jesse and Al.

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Old 03-31-2008, 09:15 PM   #64
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One of my favorite Republicans of all time.
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:17 PM   #65
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Martin Luther King, Jr. was a Republican. In that era, almost all black Americans were Republicans. Why? From its founding in 1854 as the anti-slavery party until today, the Republican Party has championed freedom and civil rights for blacks. The Democrat Party has been the party of the four S's: slavery, secession, segregation and now socialism.
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:27 PM   #66
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Where did you lift that quote, d?
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:29 PM   #67
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nice work eh.

sometimes i'm lazy.

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Old 03-31-2008, 09:34 PM   #68
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Originally posted by diamond


Then you have the crowd who claims Lincoln was probably gay based on a few letters being taken out of context.




there is ample evidence that go beyond letters that demonstrate that it is quite possible that Lincoln had loving, sexual relationships with men that, today, we would understand as gay.

do we know this for certain? no. is it a historically defensible theory? absolutely.
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:36 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally posted by diamond
My point in citing the Republicans in the civil rights movement of 64 is those that did that then (Republicans) are what represent the majority of the core beliefs of the GOP now, and the civil rights movement needed the help of those Republicans-and they received it because those Republicans "got it" in 1964.


it must be nice to walk through history and cherry pick the good parts and say that it's really representative of what you and your self-identified political party believe.

it's like when i used to think that everything that Bono said was dripping with brilliance and hidden meaning and he never wrote a bad lyric or said something silly or sang a bad song.

and then i went into 9th grade.
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Old 03-31-2008, 09:40 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511






there is ample evidence that go beyond letters that demonstrate that it is quite possible that Lincoln had loving, sexual relationships with men that, today, we would understand as gay.

do we know this for certain? no. is it a historically defensible theory? absolutely.
see.

cause he shared a bed which was common in those days.
i sure the fellas kept a sheet between them.

and because it later wrote the friend that he shared the bed with that he had 'brotherly love' and the gay lobbyists come out.

go after a real closet gay person like tom cruise, ok?

you're so 8th grade.

geez.

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Old 03-31-2008, 09:41 PM   #71
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do you really want to revisit that thread?
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:00 PM   #72
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Wright's approach leads and stokes the fires of racism and in my opinion puts us further back from common ground.

i do see what you are saying. i maintain that the essential message of all of them is the same, only there's an anger to Wright that i understand is unappealing to white americans.

i think Wright does himself a disservice by buying into conspiracy theories like AIDS and crack being designed to kill black people.

but i find such paranoia on equal footing with claims that hurricanes are sent by god to punish wicked people, that abortion caused 9-11, and creationism.

every then says, ah-ha, but Obama calls this man his mentor. therein lies the difference between this relationship and those of the Republican Party. but you'll seen no endorsement by Obama of such theories, yet three of the Republicans running for president proudly raised their hands saying they believed in creationism.

in fact, i find the theory that the levees were bombed as part of a larger gentrification plot more credible than creationism.
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:03 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
do you really want to revisit that thread?
oh
boobie.

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Old 03-31-2008, 10:05 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511



i do see what you are saying. i maintain that the essential message of all of them is the same, only there's an anger to Wright that i understand is unappealing to white americans.

That's just what I was going to say.

One great unwritten rule for getting along in America today--if you're black, ESPECIALLY if you're a black man--you've got to be "nice."

I promise you there won't be many white fans of a black Rush Limbaugh (unless of course they are parroting the same views as Limbaugh)--which is what I gather this Rev. Wright may be like.
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Old 03-31-2008, 10:09 PM   #75
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good point.

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Old 03-31-2008, 11:28 PM   #76
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I don't like Condi Rice but I liked what she said about racism because it was the truth. This might shed some light on her experience growing up in America. Its from the Guardian.

Rice, the second African-American and second female in US history to lead the state department, grew up in Alabama at the height of the civil rights movement in America. One of her childhood playmates was killed in an infamous 1963 church bombing committed by white supremacists, whom Rice has called "terrorists".
I guess that someone here believes that in order to love America you have to be a sheep and show blind obedience. The Rev Wright is in the South Side of Chicago and how many white people would even set foot in the South Side or the West Side of Chicago. Instead of showing Rev Wright's speech maybe the media should do the latest story to come out of Chicago's South Side where the Chicago cops are going to school with high school kids because the parents are too afraid to send their children to school due to gang warfare. Then maybe we can understand why Rev Wright said what he said.
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Old 03-31-2008, 11:44 PM   #77
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
i maintain that the essential message of all of them is the same, only there's an anger to Wright that i understand is unappealing to white americans.
Originally posted by maycocksean

That's just what I was going to say.
...
I promise you there won't be many white fans of a black Rush Limbaugh (unless of course they are parroting the same views as Limbaugh)--which is what I gather this Rev. Wright may be like.
Irvine, though, was arguing that the essential message of "all of them," i.e. "Wright, the Obamas, and Condi (and MLK and Powell)" is the same, except for the anger on Wright's part. I'm not sure that makes for the best analogy to Limbaugh (based in part on some of your own past comments about what sort of figure Limbaugh is--e.g., that he's primarily a cynical shock-jock attention-seeker, rather than a 'True Believer' in the values he nominally espouses). Could you clarify?
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Old 04-01-2008, 12:01 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally posted by yolland

Originally posted by maycocksean

That's just what I was going to say.
...
I promise you there won't be many white fans of a black Rush Limbaugh (unless of course they are parroting the same views as Limbaugh)--which is what I gather this Rev. Wright may be like.

Irvine, though, was arguing that the essential message of "all of them," i.e. "Wright, the Obamas, and Condi (and MLK and Powell)" is the same, except for the anger on Wright's part. I'm not sure that makes for the best analogy to Limbaugh (based in part on some of your own past comments about what sort of figure Limbaugh is--e.g., that he's primarily a cynical shock-jock attention-seeker, rather than a 'True Believer' in the values he nominally espouses). Could you clarify?
[/QUOTE]

No, you're right---the analogy wasn't particularly apt.

I guess I was leading off from what Irvine said to make another point, which is that many whites are often impatient with/annoyed by/put-off by black grievances when they are expressed angrily. I then took a polarizing, attention-seeking figure like Limbaugh and said that a similar person who was black would be excoriated even more than Limbaugh is (by those of us of a more liberal persuasion) by whites.

I guess I'm trying to say that a black man in America isn't "allowed" to be pissed off in quite the same way as a white man could.

And Obama, knows this by the way--it's one reason why he's doing as well as he is among white voters, IMO.
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Old 04-01-2008, 12:37 AM   #79
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[q]I guess I'm trying to say that a black man in America isn't "allowed" to be pissed off in quite the same way as a white man could.[/q]



and some would say that this is a racist statement.

do you agree?
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Old 04-01-2008, 02:02 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally posted by Irvine511
[q]I guess I'm trying to say that a black man in America isn't "allowed" to be pissed off in quite the same way as a white man could.[/q]



and some would say that this is a racist statement.

do you agree?
I see it more as a statement about racism in our country.

Yeah, I agree that some would view that as a racist statement though I'm not sure entirely how it could be construed as such. It's essentially a statement that racism exists in America and this one manifestation of it.

I know some people don't want to hear that, but that's the reality.
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