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Old 01-14-2008, 08:40 PM   #1
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UK: Banning Those Evil Knives

"A gun is just tool. No better and no worse than any other tool, a shovel or an axe or a saddle or a stove or anything. Think of it always that way. A gun is as good and as bad--as the man who carries it. Remember that."

~Shane by Jack Schaefer


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage...icle684784.ece
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Old 01-14-2008, 10:09 PM   #2
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You can't be serious, iron horse. For fucks sake. You cannot honestly believe the bile you spew in here. But hey, if a newspaper with stories as good as Britney & Islam: Will It Help? says so, then who am I to argue.
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Old 01-14-2008, 11:38 PM   #3
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Are you trying to be witty?
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Old 01-15-2008, 02:19 AM   #4
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you mean me or iron horse?
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Old 01-15-2008, 05:47 AM   #5
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No, no, you please continue
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Old 01-15-2008, 02:02 PM   #6
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I work for the cops here in the UK (although I'm civilian staff, not a cop) and in my experience, we've been prosecuting folk for possession of an offensive weapon (including knives in that bracket) for ages. Nothing new there. I'm sure some get cautions (depending on the circumstances) but by no means all

You get searched, you've got anything in your pockets that can be used as an offensive weapon, you're hauled back to the clink. Knives, hammers, baseball bats: if you're out the house and got them in your pocket, and cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that they were there for innocent purposes, you're off to court. But particularly so for knives - there's quite a knife crime problem here at the mo

this isn't news.
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Old 01-15-2008, 02:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by bammo2
I work for the cops here in the UK (although I'm civilian staff, not a cop) and in my experience, we've been prosecuting folk for possession of an offensive weapon (including knives in that bracket) for ages. Nothing new there. I'm sure some get cautions (depending on the circumstances) but by no means all

You get searched, you've got anything in your pockets that can be used as an offensive weapon, you're hauled back to the clink. Knives, hammers, baseball bats: if you're out the house and got them in your pocket, and cannot prove beyond reasonable doubt that they were there for innocent purposes, you're off to court. But particularly so for knives - there's quite a knife crime problem here at the mo

this isn't news.

Ten years of Labour government

+

tabloid hysteria

=

Restriction of freedoms of the individual
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Old 01-15-2008, 05:45 PM   #8
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The poor individual who isn't allowed to walk around in a city with a knife. How else, if not with a machete, should the individual get through the urban jungle?
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Old 01-15-2008, 10:52 PM   #9
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I live in New Mexico, U.S. and we have a law that a person can get a permit to carry a concealed weapon meaning a gun in your car. Most of the homicides in my city have been by guns as in most U.S. cities. Last year a student at the high school my son graduated from was shot while he sat in the back seat of a friend's car. The guy who shot him did it, because the kid was tossing rocks in the street while waiting for a ride home. This guy followed the kid and his friends car then went up to car and shot him while the car was at a stop sign. The kid died and he was only 17. The ironic thing is that the kid that was shot was a student activist against gun violence in the city's high schools and a good student. America has a worse problem with violence than Britain and its easy to get any weapon you want in America. Los Angeles has a huge homicide problem in battles over ethnic neighborhoods right now. The Mexican gangs are killing blcak people over turf and are shooting people because of their race. Read the Los Angeles papers if you want to get depressed. Ak47 is choice weapon of gangs. Ten years ago I worked with gang kids and they explained the reason for the baggy pants fashion was that its easier to hide a gun.
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Old 01-16-2008, 12:16 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by financeguy



Ten years of Labour government

+

tabloid hysteria

=

Restriction of freedoms of the individual
Why complain, it's been a blueprint for every other western government on how to rob people of their freedoms with a smile.
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Old 01-17-2008, 08:59 PM   #11
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"America has a worse problem with violence than Britain and its easy to get any weapon you want in America. Los Angeles has a huge homicide problem in battles over ethnic neighborhoods right now. The Mexican gangs are killing blcak people over turf and are shooting people because of their race. Read the Los Angeles papers if you want to get depressed. Ak47 is choice weapon of gangs. Ten years ago I worked with gang kids and they explained the reason for the baggy pants fashion was that its easier to hide a gun."

~watergate


America has a worse problem with violence than Britain

-Something to discuss. From what I have read, since Brtitain's gun ban, home invasions and gun related violence has increased,
plus the use of knives.


-and its easy to get any weapon you want in America.


It was real easy 50 years ago. You could mail order a gun with no questions asked. And oh yeah, remember all those shootings years ago?

To blame recent violence with the avalibity of guns is ignoring a heap of social problems.

The cities in the U.S. with the strictists gun control have the the highest gun related homocides.

We have restrictions here in the U.S. now and if the anti-gun position is correct we should have all shot ourselves years ago.

Not sure I said that right, but my 2-cents.
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Old 01-19-2008, 02:52 AM   #12
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A gun is a tool?

Tools build, not destroy.
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Old 01-19-2008, 06:49 AM   #13
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A chainsaw?
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Old 01-19-2008, 12:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by A_Wanderer
A chainsaw?
You need wood to build.
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Old 07-24-2008, 09:02 AM   #15
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I have a feeling if he was cleaning a hammer or a knife his wife and kid would still be alive.

FOXNews.com - Man Accidentally Kills Pregnant Wife While Cleaning Gun - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News
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Old 07-24-2008, 02:21 PM   #16
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Unless he fully intended to murder her, in which case he'd just tell the press that he was cleaning the hammer and it fell from his hand down onto her head while she was cleaning the floor beneath him or some nonsense. Or maybe he'd just say she had fallen on the knife (hey, it's happened before).

There are two problems with totally unrestricted (ie free) gun ownership: the first is irresponsible owners who do not give the power of the gun the respect it deserves and do idiot things like clean it while loaded, clean it while drunk, play with it while drunk, etc, the second is a corollary of that which is that there's no way to force people to be informed, to even be 'experts' on guns, gun handling, and gun use. If you take away people's excuses to do irresponsible things with it, you take away all doubts that they're somehow inculpable if there's a mishap with it in their hands. That's a sorry comfort for friends/family of victims, but given that there are still victims even when/where guns are illegal I guess that point doesn't really hold as a counterargument does it?

The problem isn't the items used for violence, the problem is violence itself. Our culture glorifies violence, associates violence with power, associates violence with a means of getting what you want when you're otherwise incapable of it, associates violence and domination with machismo and what it means to have strength. There's no dialog about when violence is or isn't appropriate, there's no explication that some kinds of violence are more noble than others, nothing. We have a generation of kids right now who go around wearing Scarface merch, talking about the glory of Tony Montana, all of whom clearly missed the point of the film. Fix that, make clear the line between fantasy and reality, demand consequences for action, demand responsibility, insist on personal accountability, and maybe we'll be closer to stopping violence.

Guns are tools, as they're tools of law enforcement which are made necessary (to at least match the force of criminals, if not overpower it) by the violence in the society being policed. Firearms are the tools of hunters, some people in the world still hunt for their food or at least to supplement what diet they already have. The 'tools build, not destroy' argument simply can't hold water. You'd be forced to concede that knives were tools by your own argument, and yet people misuse them for violence. Is it that hard to believe the same is true of firearms?


The Sun is a big steaming pile of a magazine, let's make no mistake about that, but tell me it isn't a sensational overreaction to ban knives when it's treating a symptom of a much larger and more insidious problem.
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