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Old 03-22-2017, 01:15 PM   #201
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I've backed off a lot of my initial blame of BernieBros. Most of them were here in Cali, and this state was never in danger of going Red.

I believe the main reasons Clinton lost were:

Dems unable to talk about the big picture topics
Economy - Jobs - Inequality
Islamic Terrorism
Ignoring WI, MN, IA, MI in campaigning
Clinton Brand
Sexism

Trump did a great job of pushing his generic message of MAGA, and making all the promises in the world, even if they know it's not going to happen, they seemed happy that someone at least talked about it.

Instead Dems/Libtards have the perception that they only care about bathrooms, safe spaces, not offending Muslims after a terrorist attack, protecting illegals, etc etc

My opinion is the Dems were only going to win with another Obama.
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Old 03-22-2017, 02:17 PM   #202
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i agree, in a nation primed for advertising slogans and one-second attention spans, something universal like "make america great again" is far more effective and likely to stick than the individualist "i'm with her". the "basket of deplorables" was also a terrible idea and guaranteed to be a soundbite used against her, and it was used very effectively by the trump campaign and his supporters to present her as elitist. nobody was going to rally behind a candidate because she said her opponent's supporters were scum. the clinton campaign did an awful job of branding, and a more astute and skilled politician than trump would have likely buried her several times over for it.

i really don't think the relatively small number of "bernie or bust" people who *actually* followed through on that on election day shoulder much if any of the blame. i suspect the vast majority of those diehards probably live in blue states anyways where it didn't make a difference. those numbers should have been more than made up for easily elsewhere by even token campaigning in the rust belt states where she lost by those tiny margins.

i also agree that i'm feeling less now like "it's hers to lose" as i did during the campaign (at least till the comey letter came out - still convinced he's the 21st century gavrilo princip if shit really hits the fan in the near future). we all obviously underestimated the backlash against progressivism that was bubbling under the surface. a horribly run campaign gave room for someone like trump to come in and exploit that. except for maybe marco rubio she probably would have beaten any of the other clowns that ran for the GOP nomination, but if say, paul ryan had run, i think his margin would have been at least as good as trump's.

i also think obama would have won in a landslide against pretty much anyone the GOP would put up. same with biden, i think he would have won easily too. sadly the timing didn't work out for him personally.
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Old 03-22-2017, 02:40 PM   #203
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i agree, in a nation primed for advertising slogans and one-second attention spans, something universal like "make america great again" is far more effective and likely to stick than the individualist "i'm with her". the "basket of deplorables" was also a terrible idea and guaranteed to be a soundbite used against her, and it was used very effectively by the trump campaign and his supporters to present her as elitist. nobody was going to rally behind a candidate because she said her opponent's supporters were scum. the clinton campaign did an awful job of branding, and a more astute and skilled politician than trump would have likely buried her several times over for it.

i really don't think the relatively small number of "bernie or bust" people who *actually* followed through on that on election day shoulder much if any of the blame. i suspect the vast majority of those diehards probably live in blue states anyways where it didn't make a difference. those numbers should have been more than made up for easily elsewhere by even token campaigning in the rust belt states where she lost by those tiny margins.

i also agree that i'm feeling less now like "it's hers to lose" as i did during the campaign (at least till the comey letter came out - still convinced he's the 21st century gavrilo princip if shit really hits the fan in the near future). we all obviously underestimated the backlash against progressivism that was bubbling under the surface. a horribly run campaign gave room for someone like trump to come in and exploit that. except for maybe marco rubio she probably would have beaten any of the other clowns that ran for the GOP nomination, but if say, paul ryan had run, i think his margin would have been at least as good as trump's.

i also think obama would have won in a landslide against pretty much anyone the GOP would put up. same with biden, i think he would have won easily too. sadly the timing didn't work out for him personally.
Yes. I always say that Clinton would have made a really good president. On paper she was an amazing candidate. But she was/is a horrible politician/campaigner.
If you look back at her history, it's really stunning all she did in her younger years for minorities, women, children, the less fortunate. But she would just talk about the Childrens Insurance Program. You just had to shake your head. She got outsold. And Americans are nothing if not suckers for a smooth salesperson.

The point of my first post is my fear for the future. I can see a solid Democratic candidate running for Pres next time, and the now self-proclaimed "true progressives" will find a couple of bad votes in their past, or god forbid they actually did some fundraisers with corporate sponsors, and they will be labeled shills, oligarchs and neo-liberals and the cycle of self defeat will continue.
I hope that isn't the case.
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Old 03-22-2017, 02:44 PM   #204
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I've backed off a lot of my initial blame of BernieBros. Most of them were here in Cali, and this state was never in danger of going Red.

I believe the main reasons Clinton lost were:

Dems unable to talk about the big picture topics
Economy - Jobs - Inequality
Islamic Terrorism
Ignoring WI, MN, IA, MI in campaigning
Clinton Brand
Sexism

Trump did a great job of pushing his generic message of MAGA, and making all the promises in the world, even if they know it's not going to happen, they seemed happy that someone at least talked about it.

Instead Dems/Libtards have the perception that they only care about bathrooms, safe spaces, not offending Muslims after a terrorist attack, protecting illegals, etc etc

My opinion is the Dems were only going to win with another Obama.
I agree with a couple of your bullet points. Especially on economy and jobs. Clinton did such a poor job connecting about that.
A candidate like Biden would have been all over that. And could you imagine if a candidate would have taken a group of people that had gotten screwed over by Trump on the trail with them, and had them all speak at rallies about their personal experience getting shafted by Don the Con? It would have been right to the heart of what Americans were looking for. Democrats should be explaining how we are sticking up for the working people, and Clinton never could get that across effectively.
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Old 03-22-2017, 03:02 PM   #205
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Biden was also more likely to say something stupid which may have made him more endearing

Clinton has been shit on her whole career. She is a introverted nerd who just wasn't the best in the spotlight

I bet behind closed doors she was very engaging and probably quite charming

Two traits we never saw
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Old 03-22-2017, 04:10 PM   #206
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I bet behind closed doors she was very engaging and probably quite charming


this i've heard from several people, at least once she got out of the White House. she was not a terribly happy first lady.

i doubt many of them are.
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Old 03-22-2017, 04:27 PM   #207
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She's gone from a activist of women's rights, cookie cutter wife, horrible policy maker, enabler of adultery, shrill for big business, war monger, corrupt, murderer, and unpleasant to look at

I would like to see any male politician go through what she has had to endure her career. That's not to say she hasn't made mistakes, or that her voting record, policies, or anything else is above scrutiny. It's just so much of what was thrown at her was complete dog shit.

She kept trying. And she lost. To Donald Trump
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Old 03-22-2017, 05:18 PM   #208
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it also took collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, as well as the FBI and an antiquated voting system, to make her lose an election she won by 3m votes.
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Old 03-22-2017, 05:40 PM   #209
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Oh ugh, just get over it you leftist.
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Old 03-22-2017, 07:45 PM   #210
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Oh ugh, just get over it you leftist.
Libtard!
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Old 03-22-2017, 09:55 PM   #211
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I saw a Bernie mural downtown in Denver today.
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Old 03-22-2017, 10:16 PM   #212
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CNN with the fake news again
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Old 03-23-2017, 01:13 AM   #213
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Trump Part VIII

Hoooooolyyyy fuck, and I thought Spicer was an incompetent idiot. Nunes is next level. The only other explanation is that he's taking himself out of the picture now before things get worse.
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Old 03-23-2017, 02:10 AM   #214
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it also took collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, as well as the FBI and an antiquated voting system, to make her lose an election she won by 3m votes.
This hurt all over again.
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Old 03-23-2017, 12:07 PM   #215
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I am absolutely shocked that we haven't had one single terror incident since Trump has taken over. I feel like his team has to be drooling over one to happen. They've been assholes when it comes to every other policy, law, or speech since the beginning. I don't feel it's reaching to think they have plans for when tragedy does happen.

Fingers crossed that we can get to 2018 and the Dems actually show up to vote in record numbers to get him out before something happens, but I just don't see how. If/when an attack happens on our soil, I fear we'll see the worst of this administration.
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Old 03-23-2017, 03:49 PM   #216
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no healthcare vote today.

House won't vote on health care Thursday -- bill in jeopardy - CNNPolitics.com

not much of a "closer" are we now, Little Mr. Baby Hands.
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Old 03-23-2017, 03:53 PM   #217
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Man, I am just getting so damn tired of all this winning.
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Old 03-23-2017, 04:21 PM   #218
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Meanwhile....

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Old 03-23-2017, 04:27 PM   #219
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Old 03-23-2017, 04:44 PM   #220
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Trumpy poo likes trucks
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