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Old 02-17-2017, 10:51 AM   #481
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:25 AM   #482
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These are the folks that ignorantly feared martial law for eight years? Well now you just might get it.

Thanks conned
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:29 AM   #483
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Spicer tweets that the DHS denied its existence, 20 minutes later AP gets DHS on the record saying it does exist but was "just an early draft."
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Old 02-17-2017, 11:43 AM   #484
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So the draft they implement will be better? Remember when the right wingnuts talked about Obama implementing Martial Law. I'm sure they will be just as disturbed by this.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:12 PM   #485
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Where are our Trump supporters? Who's willing to justify this? To make an argument that Trump's press conference yesterday wasn't utterly insane? Or is this the typical we'll run away until something actually good happens and then we'll come in thumping our chests bullshit?
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:28 PM   #486
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Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
Where are our Trump supporters? Who's willing to justify this? To make an argument that Trump's press conference yesterday wasn't utterly insane? Or is this the typical we'll run away until something actually good happens and then we'll come in thumping our chests bullshit?
All of this.

I will never forgive Trump supporters for putting this guy in the White House. Never. What a shitshow we're in.
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Old 02-17-2017, 12:39 PM   #487
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All of this.

I will never forgive Trump supporters for putting this guy in the White House. Never. What a shitshow we're in.
I agree with you. But it wasn't just the Trump "supporters". This should also be laid at the feet of the self-proclaimed "progressives" that proudly tantrumed about #neverhillary "the lesser of two evils" and "they are both equally as bad" bullshit.
Comically we see them SHOCKED at what's going on now.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:03 PM   #488
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Where are our Trump supporters? Who's willing to justify this? To make an argument that Trump's press conference yesterday wasn't utterly insane? Or is this the typical we'll run away until something actually good happens and then we'll come in thumping our chests bullshit?


They'll start speaking up when white people are being gathered up, until then I don't expect a single one to say a word.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:10 PM   #489
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They'll start speaking up when white people are being gathered up, until then I don't expect a single one to say a word.
Worst part. You would hope that they would learn their lesson. But my crystal ball shows that if anyone other than Bernie runs in 2020 (or possibly Warren - although she was tainted by supporting Hillary) they will quickly find some old votes they made that weren't "progressive" enough, and label them "shills" "neo-liberals", "corporate whores", and oligarchs... You know the drill...
And we'll fall short again.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:11 PM   #490
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I agree with you. But it wasn't just the Trump "supporters". This should also be laid at the feet of the self-proclaimed "progressives" that proudly tantrumed about #neverhillary "the lesser of two evils" and "they are both equally as bad" bullshit.
Comically we see them SHOCKED at what's going on now.
Don't forget the margin in 3 critical swing states was very, very thin. Had at least 120,000 of the MILLIONS of people who stayed home voted for Hillary, we wouldn't even be having this discussion now.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:15 PM   #491
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Spicer tweets that the DHS denied its existence, 20 minutes later AP gets DHS on the record saying it does exist but was "just an early draft."
Here's the draft:

https://www.documentcloud.org/docume...raft-Memo.html
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:21 PM   #492
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Now that I have been gone for a few days and had a chance to think things out. Yeah its a little difficult to respond to people when you are temp banned but I guess that is part of the point isn't it?

I'm having to play catch up so you will excuse me for the bombardment of posts.

First and foremost
I will not apologize for the post I made. To the person that found those nicknames offensive I ask you
this....Why do you think those nicknames came about? You have someone who lied about their heritage and
to this day is being called out on it in a humorous way. You say you were offended....OK well my next question to you is as
far as politically incorrect humor where is the line? Classic Films like Blazing Saddles would have never been made
if our culture changed something about it every time someone was offended....I'm sorry but that is not the way
the world works. My post was coming from a place of humor ala politically incorrect humor but still humor.

A lot of the time being offended is often cover for not liking someone elses views. My post was not to be racist despite
how its being taken but rather to poke fun at someone who is a fraud....Even CNN has said that Warren should apologize for claiming to be Native American when she very clearly is not.


That said I will be a bit more careful about the humor I post as I would like to stay and I like engaging the other
side because it is what keeps the dialogue going despite the fact some on the left and actually some on the right
would much rather shut down the dialogue because it doesn't agree with what they stand for....How many times have you
laughed at something in a film or spoken by a comedian that might have been offensive to someone else? I bet you at
least more then a few times.

I've had a chance to look at some of the posts since I was temporarily banned and I would like to bring up some points.
BVS - You said Trumpets are and will always be on the wrong side of history.....Who decides that? You? Why because you
feel like Trump voters ruined your little utopia? I got news for you......America was faced with a very difficult decision.
Elect someone who didn't have any political experience to someone who had experience but the wrong experience. Someone who
doesn't have a honest bone in their body. Most voters voted and decided that Hillary's vision of America was not what
they wanted and would rather put their faith in a political unknown....THINK ABOUT THAT! Americans would rather put a
celebrity in the white house with no political history than Hillary Clinton. You want another Democratic president?
Pick a moderate....Someone that appeals to independents as well. Your last choice didn't appeal to anyone minus
the Democratic party. Oh and saying Trump voters a lot of which were independents are on the wrong side of history?
Sorry thats not going to bring you any more friends to your side.

Bono 212 - You say you won't rise to my bait any more? What bait? Please tell me what worm I am dangling in front of you?
I am on the other side and more times than not I won't agree with you....A lot of my points are blunt but that is the point.
Why sugar coat something? If we only hear what we want to hear then maybe giant bubbles should be mandatory for every person
on this planet so heaven forbid you have to respond or listen to something you don't like. And the post you were offended by
was politically incorrect nicknames once again of a woman who faked native American heritage for political gain? Am I reading
that right?

Well I guess I must be the ironic racist as we had a town benefit for Standing Rock at my house and my family are very good friends
with representatives of the Northern Ute here. Ill gladly post photos if you don't believe me....But yup I'm racist.

I am of Polish & Irish descent with believe it or not a little bit of Arab in there(Turkey, azerbaijan region.) I've been
called a variety of names during my time on this planet..Lot of Polish jokes....A lot..It doesn't bother me..
..In fact I welcome it because what it does is allow a conversation to form..Not always but sometimes...That is how I view things like that......I've laughed
at things like Achmed The Dead Terrorist. Something that while politically incorrect lots of people find funny. Look
at shows like South Park. They don't hold back....They poke fun at everything and everyone and have faced their own
backlash from time to time. That said there is a difference between humor and straight racism but if you can't see
the difference I'm sorry dear you take yourself way too seriously. At some point claming something is offensive is
just using that as a crutch to protect yourself from someone elses view because you don't like it.


Now the point I made earlier in the Trump discussion which someone took out of context was about the Django Unchained dolls that
were pulled because someone found them racist. I ask again what made the dolls racist but the film was perfectly OK?
These figures represent a not so wonderful time in our history....Oh a time I might add that the Democrats fought to keep
in place. But they were from a fictional film. Someone compared those to if someone came out with Holocaust dolls to put
on the general market....Most likely no such item would ever come to market because you are comparing
something of reality to characters from a movie Yes someone can find them offensive but just because you find them offensive doesn't mean you
demand they be pulled from everyone else who find them while politically incorrect OK.....

Ill go back in time a little. Do you remember the fight over censorship? Tipper Gore and the PMRC's crusade to stamp
out filthy music because rather than look at their own parenting skills they would rather blame Prince or a rap group.
The Parental guidance sticker was not the PMRC's goal initially it was to get this music pulled from the marketplace.

Look at Grand Theft Auto. They wanted that game pulled because of its content....News flash its not for a 7 year old kid!

Look at the aftermath of Columbine....The media wanted to blame everything from video games to music to movies.....Explain
to me how that makes any sense?

Yes its a far cry from those dolls but at some point demanding this gets pulled and that gets pulled because you find it
offensive it becomes censorship.

At some point we as a nation need to have a conversation on what really is too far over the line when it comes to things
like that and what point is it just censorship?

In the end like I said earlier I will be a little bit more careful about the type of humor I post but in the end
it was posted in humor and not meant to be upsetting. Again I will be a little more understanding going forward.

If politically incorrect humor isn't the kind of thing to post here I won't do it.


I'm kidding...In all seriousness Ill pull back on the politically incorrect humor.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:23 PM   #493
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You ask why has it gone quiet....Where are the people here that voted Trump? Well be careful what you wish for.
I said I would be more careful going forward but I won't be silent....There are a lot more of you(Liberals) then there
are us(Libertarians/Independents/Conservatives etc) Here on this board so I know I am already against the proverbial wall.

So lets get back into it shall we?


Moonlit Angel said So much for the ridiculous idea that Trump would bring an administration free of corruption, scandal, and illegal, deeply unsafe activity, huh?

Note to Trump supporters: Try actually listening to people when they warn you about candidates like him next time.

I guess Hillary was a real peach then?

So trade one evil for another then? Jesus you are delusional if you think Hillary would have been better.....This is the
exact problem I keep talking about....Trading one evil for another....Lesser of two evils.....When will real change happen?..
It won't because the left was too busy singing "FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT! FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT!" To see she is just as corrupt
as Trump and yet you continued to push her down the American peoples throat.....If you had found another Obama you would
have the presidency...He wasn't perfect but he had some good about him.....I found myself at odds with my conservative
friends over beliefs like that. I hope you have another Obama or someone like him somewhere out there because if Hillary
Clinton is and was the best you had to offer? No thanks....I may not be satisfied about voting Trump but I am satisifed
my vote didn't go to her....

She was and is another career politician.....You fell for her bull**** hook, line, & sinker and yet you feel you
can chastize Trump supporters for the exact same thing....Our country this election was either too blind or too dumb
to look at these two candidates and go....NO....Now now not ever! And I hate the fact I had to make the choice.
And no staying home is not an option. The right to vote is something we take for granted and I won't stay home.

In a way you on the left have a lot more in common
with those on the right than you think. Both sides have blinders on and will go through the potholes and nails in the road
to get to where you want to be even if it wasn't the best route.

Look at the debates....You had Martin O Malley which well whatever, Bernie Sanders who I think while his heart was in the
right place doesn't know the realities that nothing is free. Someone has to pay for it. Chafee.....Well I dunno there.
and Hillary Clinton.....I am happy actually more people saw Bernie as an alternative but again you don't cross the
establishment. Hillary was their pick from the start and nothing was going to change that.

I don't like the fact I had to vote for Trump over Clinton I really don't but as I said before.....Maybe the left
can pull their own heads out of their collective asses and provide someone better than Hillary Clinton....

You know what the ironic thing is? You on the left thought Trump was a joke and didn't stand a snowballs chance
in hell....Your arrogance was your downfall in this election.

You thought it was in the bag and when you lost you did everything you could to stop it. Including threatening peoples
lives and the lives of their families if they didn't change their vote....Well congrats you caused Hillary to lose even
more votes when the Electoral College voted.



And to answer gareth browns question as to why its gone quiet....I was temporarily banned because someone took offense to
a politically incorrect humor post I made.....I'd still be responding but I had to wait.

And BVS stop claiming you even know remotely where I am coming from.You don't know a thing about me....Its pretty easy to attack someone when they
are behind a computer screen isn't it? Especially when they have been silenced so they can't defend themselves. You skip past the parts you don't like and focus on what you do like.....So much for
balanced debate eh? You pick apart what I am saying and twisting what I am saying to help your argument....Basically
washing my words till you get something you can pick at.

Now I said before I am not beholden to any party.....I will call a spade a spade. I was heading into work and had talk radio on.
The channel is more of a middle of the ground station politically but they were discussing reports that Trump is angry at
his staff about the roll out of the travel ban and he wishes he could have taken more time with it......Well if those reports are
true thats kind of a NO brainer isn't it?

I've felt since the order was signed that while vetting is important and needs to be improved there needs to be balance and
this was rushed out way too soon.

You don't rush something out without thoroughly going through it. Seeking help from various sources as to how to make the
Executive order work in all realms....Legal and world reality. If he had waited even 6 months to roll this out till they
had gone over it with a fine tooth comb I think it would have worked.

Certain elements of the left will protest anything he does so those elements don't really matter. But when most of the country
looks at this and goes "You should have delayed." Its a learning lesson....Take your flipping time!
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:34 PM   #494
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Don't forget the margin in 3 critical swing states was very, very thin. Had at least 120,000 of the MILLIONS of people who stayed home voted for Hillary, we wouldn't even be having this discussion now.
80,000 over three states. about the amount of people that could fit in a large stadium.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:35 PM   #495
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Babydoll to get back to what we were discussing I would like your opinion on this?
https://youtu.be/qm5SYxRXHsI - New Years Eve in Cologne the night that changed a lot of Germans views on Migrants.

I understand the sensitivity the German people have on the issue based on the countries sensitive history...Believe
me I understand.

This video was very informative for me as a Westerner hearing various opinions from the German public.
https://youtu.be/gS5c_OVZmtk

I don't even know if you are still active in this thread but as someone who lives in Germany I would like some more insight into this


And that Trump press conference was cringe worthy.....No Denying that. I think he is still trying to convince himself and everyone else he won.......Trump you won now get your head out of campaign mode.....

I am convinced he was reading from a prepared statement and flubbed it.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:39 PM   #496
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Now that I have been gone for a few days and had a chance to think things out. Yeah its a little difficult to respond to people when you are temp banned but I guess that is part of the point isn't it?

I'm having to play catch up so you will excuse me for the bombardment of posts.

First and foremost
I will not apologize for the post I made. To the person that found those nicknames offensive I ask you
this....Why do you think those nicknames came about? You have someone who lied about their heritage and
to this day is being called out on it in a humorous way. You say you were offended....OK well my next question to you is as
far as politically incorrect humor where is the line? Classic Films like Blazing Saddles would have never been made
if our culture changed something about it every time someone was offended....I'm sorry but that is not the way
the world works. My post was coming from a place of humor ala politically incorrect humor but still humor.

A lot of the time being offended is often cover for not liking someone elses views. My post was not to be racist despite
how its being taken but rather to poke fun at someone who is a fraud....Even CNN has said that Warren should apologize for claiming to be Native American when she very clearly is not.


That said I will be a bit more careful about the humor I post as I would like to stay and I like engaging the other
side because it is what keeps the dialogue going despite the fact some on the left and actually some on the right
would much rather shut down the dialogue because it doesn't agree with what they stand for....How many times have you
laughed at something in a film or spoken by a comedian that might have been offensive to someone else? I bet you at
least more then a few times.

I've had a chance to look at some of the posts since I was temporarily banned and I would like to bring up some points.
BVS - You said Trumpets are and will always be on the wrong side of history.....Who decides that? You? Why because you
feel like Trump voters ruined your little utopia? I got news for you......America was faced with a very difficult decision.
Elect someone who didn't have any political experience to someone who had experience but the wrong experience. Someone who
doesn't have a honest bone in their body. Most voters voted and decided that Hillary's vision of America was not what
they wanted and would rather put their faith in a political unknown....THINK ABOUT THAT! Americans would rather put a
celebrity in the white house with no political history than Hillary Clinton. You want another Democratic president?
Pick a moderate....Someone that appeals to independents as well. Your last choice didn't appeal to anyone minus
the Democratic party. Oh and saying Trump voters a lot of which were independents are on the wrong side of history?
Sorry thats not going to bring you any more friends to your side.

Bono 212 - You say you won't rise to my bait any more? What bait? Please tell me what worm I am dangling in front of you?
I am on the other side and more times than not I won't agree with you....A lot of my points are blunt but that is the point.
Why sugar coat something? If we only hear what we want to hear then maybe giant bubbles should be mandatory for every person
on this planet so heaven forbid you have to respond or listen to something you don't like. And the post you were offended by
was politically incorrect nicknames once again of a woman who faked native American heritage for political gain? Am I reading
that right?

Well I guess I must be the ironic racist as we had a town benefit for Standing Rock at my house and my family are very good friends
with representatives of the Northern Ute here. Ill gladly post photos if you don't believe me....But yup I'm racist.

I am of Polish & Irish descent with believe it or not a little bit of Arab in there(Turkey, azerbaijan region.) I've been
called a variety of names during my time on this planet..Lot of Polish jokes....A lot..It doesn't bother me..
..In fact I welcome it because what it does is allow a conversation to form..Not always but sometimes...That is how I view things like that......I've laughed
at things like Achmed The Dead Terrorist. Something that while politically incorrect lots of people find funny. Look
at shows like South Park. They don't hold back....They poke fun at everything and everyone and have faced their own
backlash from time to time. That said there is a difference between humor and straight racism but if you can't see
the difference I'm sorry dear you take yourself way too seriously. At some point claming something is offensive is
just using that as a crutch to protect yourself from someone elses view because you don't like it.


Now the point I made earlier in the Trump discussion which someone took out of context was about the Django Unchained dolls that
were pulled because someone found them racist. I ask again what made the dolls racist but the film was perfectly OK?
These figures represent a not so wonderful time in our history....Oh a time I might add that the Democrats fought to keep
in place. But they were from a fictional film. Someone compared those to if someone came out with Holocaust dolls to put
on the general market....Most likely no such item would ever come to market because you are comparing
something of reality to characters from a movie Yes someone can find them offensive but just because you find them offensive doesn't mean you
demand they be pulled from everyone else who find them while politically incorrect OK.....

Ill go back in time a little. Do you remember the fight over censorship? Tipper Gore and the PMRC's crusade to stamp
out filthy music because rather than look at their own parenting skills they would rather blame Prince or a rap group.
The Parental guidance sticker was not the PMRC's goal initially it was to get this music pulled from the marketplace.

Look at Grand Theft Auto. They wanted that game pulled because of its content....News flash its not for a 7 year old kid!

Look at the aftermath of Columbine....The media wanted to blame everything from video games to music to movies.....Explain
to me how that makes any sense?

Yes its a far cry from those dolls but at some point demanding this gets pulled and that gets pulled because you find it
offensive it becomes censorship.

At some point we as a nation need to have a conversation on what really is too far over the line when it comes to things
like that and what point is it just censorship?

In the end like I said earlier I will be a little bit more careful about the type of humor I post but in the end
it was posted in humor and not meant to be upsetting. Again I will be a little more understanding going forward.

If politically incorrect humor isn't the kind of thing to post here I won't do it.


I'm kidding...In all seriousness Ill pull back on the politically incorrect humor.


Not an honest bone in her body?!

This is why you'll forever be on the wrong side of history.

Trump lies about everything, big and small. He gets called out on it on a daily basis, and for you to make that statement without a hint of irony makes you at the very least ignorant.

The rest of that post was a pile of shit. If you have to point out the Democratic Party fought for slaves without understanding the paradigm shift in parties that have happened since then you are nothing but a party hack and you will feed on anything they give you.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:45 PM   #497
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It was offensive because you used Native American's as insults. How can you not see that? You said it and two people of Native American decent were offended. You don't get to tell us if we should be offended or not.

And furthermore, Warren's claims to being Native American are similar to mine, in that she knows her history, it's important to her, she chooses to claim it. My claim is far closer in years to hers, but I'm still probably only like 1/6th or 1/5th Native. I don't care. I know my history, I can trace it back to my great grandfather, and it's important to me to keep that heritage as part of who I am. Who cares how removed she is from the line? We ALL care about where we came from, so to call her the name of a great Native as 1) an insult and 2) Some overarching representation of all Natives as one stereotype, is completely unacceptable.

With that being said, she does play it up, and I don't really respect her for that. I've never done it myself, and won't unless I ever obtain documentation proving my line and actually take the time to learn more about my tribe. That's never going to happen, so I'm never going to claim my heritage on any paperwork and what she did was shady. But the name calling brings about racism, as we saw in 2012.

For you to do it in a FULL list that you spent the time to think up and write out...it's terrible. And you should be ashamed of yourself, since you apparently care so much about the Ute people. It's not cool.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:50 PM   #498
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Not an honest bone in her body?!

This is why you'll forever be on the wrong side of history.

Trump lies about everything, big and small. He gets called out on it on a daily basis, and for you to make that statement without a hint of irony makes you at the very least ignorant.

The rest of that post was a pile of shit. If you have to point out the Democratic Party fought for slaves without understanding the paradigm shift in parties that have happened since then you are nothing but a party hack and you will feed on anything they give you.
Yes I am aware of the history of both parties BVS unlike a lot of folks I do look into history. Glad you proved my point about skipping over what you don't like.

You just cant get past why people voted for Trump and until you do you will never win another election. Yes he can be a putz. I acknowledge that but if you can't see that even if people blindly voted Trump because he promised to fix the problems you are a lot further down the hill than I thought......You just can't see the difficultly a lot of people were put in with these election choices and you resort to calling us idiots and and party hacks because we didn't vote for Clinton.

I wish I had people like you in my debate class. It would have been interesting. I actually like seeing into the other side of the political spectrum readings your posts I just wish you weren't so angry towards the other side.....Maybe a lot more things could be accomplished if the anger could be quelled.

If you call Trump out for his BS without even acknowledging Hillary's long trail of bs you are as much of a party hack as you claim me to be. When the left gets called out for their bs they throw things out like Racism, Sexism, etc etc because they have no facts to fight back on.

I've said it over and over again Trump wasn't my original choice and I voted for him begrudingly. Yes I have a lot of conservative views when it comes to thinks like the constitution but that doesn't make me a party hack.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:50 PM   #499
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Temp banned for 2 weeks and still doesn't understand how offensive that post was. Sigh.
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Old 02-17-2017, 01:54 PM   #500
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Originally Posted by bono_212 View Post
It was offensive because you used Native American's as insults. How can you not see that? You said it and two people of Native American decent were offended. You don't get to tell us if we should be offended or not.

And furthermore, Warren's claims to being Native American are similar to mine, in that she knows her history, it's important to her, she chooses to claim it. My claim is far closer in years to hers, but I'm still probably only like 1/6th or 1/5th Native. I don't care. I know my history, I can trace it back to my great grandfather, and it's important to me to keep that heritage as part of who I am. Who cares how removed she is from the line? We ALL care about where we came from, so to call her the name of a great Native as 1) an insult and 2) Some overarching representation of all Natives as one stereotype, is completely unacceptable. For you to do it in a FULL list that you spent the time to think up and write out...it's terrible. And you should be ashamed of yourself, since you apparently care so much about the Ute people. It's not cool.
Actually I didn't write that list I just copied it....It was more to prove how laughable the whole thing was. Political satire has existed for ages but that doesn't mean it overreaches sometimes.

Thinking about it further honestly if you felt it was coming from a place of racism then I do apologize wholeheartedly.

Ill never agree with a lot of you on most things but for you to think me as racist....Well I apologize despite what some here may think that was not my intention.
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