Trump General Discussion VII

[BEAL]

I can imagine the rest of the world is tired of it too.

Every day is filled with so much win

 

[Irvine511]

not to wade too far into Courtney Love/MH370 territory, but Moby claims to know what's up:

after spending the weekend talking to friends who work in dc i can safely(well, 'accurately'...) post the following things:

1-the russian dossier on trump is real. 100% real. he's being blackmailed by the russian government, not just for being peed on by russian hookers, but for much more nefarious things.

2-the trump administration is in collusion with the russian government, and has been since day one.

3-the trump administration needs a war, most likely with iran. at present they are putting u.s warships off the coast of iran in the hope that iran will attack one of the ships and give the u.s a pretense for invasion.

4-there are right wing plans to get rid of trump. he's a drain on their fundraising and their approval ratings, and the gop and koch brothers and other u.s right wing groups are planning to get rid of trump.

5-intelligence agencies around the world, and here in the u.s, are horrified by the incompetence of the trump administration, and are working to present information that will lead to high level firings and, ultimately, impeachment.

i'm writing these things so that when/if these things happen there will be a public record beforehand.
these are truly baffling and horrifying times, as we have an incompetent president who is essentially owned by a foreign power.
-moby

i don't think most of that isn't true.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

3-the trump administration needs a war, most likely with iran. at present they are putting u.s warships off the coast of iran in the hope that iran will attack one of the ships and give the u.s a pretense for invasion.

I really hope this doesn't happen.

(It won't surprise me one bit if this is true, but...yeah.)

4-there are right wing plans to get rid of trump. he's a drain on their fundraising and their approval ratings, and the gop and koch brothers and other u.s right wing groups are planning to get rid of trump.

5-intelligence agencies around the world, and here in the u.s, are horrified by the incompetence of the trump administration, and are working to present information that will lead to high level firings and, ultimately, impeachment.

I really hope both of these things DO happen.

 

[BEAL]

The difference between conspiracy theories and what the intelligence community are doing (besides the obvious INTELLIGENCE), is that CT just spout whatever, eventually hitting on something to prove their claim.

I think the reason things are slow to come out against Trump and his klan, is that they are being extremely careful to vet the information. This isn't a joke, a game. If there is info on Trump that could lead to him being impeached, it needs to be 100%.

I think we need to be patient, but I do worry that something bad will happen before we can remove him.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

Radicalism is never the answer.

Moving left to what is essentially a very mild social democratic platform is radicalism now apparently? Come the fuck on.

not to wade too far into Courtney Love/MH370 territory, but Moby claims to know what's up:




i don't think most of that isn't true.

All too tempting to reply with "nobody cares, Moby".

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

The difference between conspiracy theories and what the intelligence community are doing (besides the obvious INTELLIGENCE), is that CT just spout whatever, eventually hitting on something to prove their claim.

I think the reason things are slow to come out against Trump and his klan, is that they are being extremely careful to vet the information. This isn't a joke, a game. If there is info on Trump that could lead to him being impeached, it needs to be 100%.

This is an excellent point as well. Completely agreed.

 

[Irvine511]

All too tempting to reply with "nobody cares, Moby".

Nobody listens to techno.

 

[PhilsFan]

Moving left to what is essentially a very mild social democratic platform is radicalism now apparently? Come the fuck on.

Seriously. Leftist economic policies are what the Democrats need. That's what got people excited in the campaign, and that's what was left behind when Clinton knocked out Sanders. They sprinted to the center, like they always do. And they didn't campaign in key swing states. Consequently, they couldn't get enough of their base out to the polls in those key states and lost the election.

Economic equality must be the main issue, and the way to combat that is to move to the left economically. So many other issues come from that one problem. It's obvious.

I'm not saying they need Sanders. But they need that direction.

 

[BVS]

Seriously. Leftist economic policies are what the Democrats need. That's what got people excited in the campaign, and that's what was left behind when Clinton knocked out Sanders. They sprinted to the center, like they always do. And they didn't campaign in key swing states. Consequently, they couldn't get enough of their base out to the polls in those key states and lost the election.

Economic equality must be the main issue, and the way to combat that is to move to the left economically. So many other issues come from that one problem. It's obvious.

I'm not saying they need Sanders. But they need that direction.

See, I think clarifying that you mean 'economically' would help that argument tremendously. But then you have the extremely uphill battle of explaining what that means and how it works. Sanders couldn't, that movement would need someone who absolutely know what they are talking about economically. A large portion of people hear "left economics" and it strikes fear, mainly just from conditioning, but you're right if someone had the ability to discuss it properly, it might be something that a lot of the working class would be attracted to.

 

[BEAL]

Moving left to what is essentially a very mild social democratic platform is radicalism now apparently? Come the fuck on.



All too tempting to reply with "nobody cares, Moby".

Those weren't my words. That was Keith's description of his platform.

Calling yourself radical, whether it fits the description or not, will only alienate.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

not to wade too far into Courtney Love/MH370 territory, but Moby claims to know what's up:




i don't think most of that isn't true.

Not for nothing, that's not anything that the average schmo who reads the news could put together.

But yea, I think most of it is true.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Jeffrey Loria has been negotiating to sell the Miami Marlins to the family of Jared Kushner, an adviser and son-in-law to President Donald Trump, at the same time that Loria is reportedly under consideration by the Trump administration to be U.S. ambassador to France.

The New York Post on Wednesday reported that White House chief of staff Reince Priebus has been pushing Loria for the position of U.S. ambassador to France and that Trump has signed off on the appointment.

But the Clinton Foundation!

 

[bono_212]

That scummy fly-by-night destroyer-of-franchises is going to be an ambassador?!

 

[gareth brown]

Has anyone got a link to any decent posts/articles about this dossier on Trump and Russia from the former MI6 guy?

Assuming the whole thing isn't just freely available online for all and sundry to comb through, how did people find out what's in it and so on? Is it leaks of certain parts (steady!) or speculation? This whole thing passed me by pretty quickly.

 

[BVS]

Nevermind... embedding issues on this site suck

 

[Vincent Vega]

The difference between conspiracy theories and what the intelligence community are doing (besides the obvious INTELLIGENCE), is that CT just spout whatever, eventually hitting on something to prove their claim.

I think the reason things are slow to come out against Trump and his klan, is that they are being extremely careful to vet the information. This isn't a joke, a game. If there is info on Trump that could lead to him being impeached, it needs to be 100%.

I think we need to be patient, but I do worry that something bad will happen before we can remove him.

Right, and there is an important difference between believers in conspiracy theories and intelligence analysts: A conspiracy theorist has a somewhat paradoxical, or inverse relationship with counter-facts. The more you bring up well-substantiated reasons why his theory doesn't work out, the stronger his believe in the theory. That's one of the big challenges when debating someone who believes in these kinds of theories.

An intelligence analyst, on the other hand, will spend a lot of time looking for anything that contradicts his findings, and also to substantiate whatever information they get. Not to say that they don't sometimes fail, Iraq being a case in point (though that was as much political pressure as it was poor analysis), but in general they are very meticulous. As they should be. You pretty much only have one shot at impeachment. If you blow it, Trump will come out much stronger.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Has anyone got a link to any decent posts/articles about this dossier on Trump and Russia from the former MI6 guy?

Assuming the whole thing isn't just freely available online for all and sundry to comb through, how did people find out what's in it and so on? Is it leaks of certain parts (steady!) or speculation? This whole thing passed me by pretty quickly.

BuzzFeed dumped the entire thing online, while at the same time admitting nothing's been corroborated. Other news media also had the dossier, such as the Washington Post, but they followed the good old rule of 'one source is no source'.

I think this is the original article: https://www.buzzfeed.com/kenbensinger/these-reports-allege-trump-has-deep-ties-to-russia

And here's the dossier: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984/Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.pdf

The publication of a dossier that wasn't substantiated and likely includes (planted) lies didn't go without criticism of course, to which the BuzzFeed editor had a curious response:

“We are now in a media environment where you have to engage in false statements.” However, he admitted this position was “incredibly uncomfortable for everyone”.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2...ith-defends-decision-to-publish-trump-dossier

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I don't know how likely it is that the dossier includes lies. The man who put it together has an impeccable reputation. His work is what lead to the taking down of Sep Blatter and the FIFA corruption scandal.

While he didn't intend for the dossier to be made public, putting something out there riddled with falsehoods and general sloppy work is something that would ruin his reputation and that of the company he now runs.

So while it's of course possible that some of the things in the dossier might be false, it's guaranteed that everything in there is incredibly well sourced.

 

[BoMac]

One of the saddest things about all this is the apparent lack of empathy that people have for fellow human beings. It breaks my heart. When I hear comments like "we just want them to come here legally!" or "the ban is just temporary for 3 months!" it really speaks to how cold and detached people have become to reality.

The ban may be temporary, but for many people 3 months is literally the difference between life and death. Many won't be able to come back because they will have been killed.

And wanting people to come here legally doesn't really address the conditions that forced people to flee in the first place. As humans, we have a natural survival instinct. It's in all of us. If you think that walking in frigid conditions for four days will lead to a better life, you'll do it, no matter who you are.

Again, we all need to have empathy for others, because one day that could be us, and we'll want people to be there in our time of need.

Anyway, read this. And just a note, the photos are really graphic.

The new underground railroad to Canada

 

[Salome]

And wanting people to come here legally doesn't really address the conditions that forced people to flee in the first place. As humans, we have a natural survival instinct. It's in all of us. If you think that walking in frigid conditions for four days will lead to a better life, you'll do it, no matter who you are.

Again, we all need to have empathy for others

There is a reason why people usually make out like refugees go online to pick the destination they want to go to and then buy a plane ticket on one of their credit cards.
Otherwise it would almost be like these people actually need our help and are willing to do anything (including possibly losing their lifes) to get away from what will otherwise destroy them.

 

[anitram]

I think that the lack of major violent conflict on US soil in the lifetime of any living Americans has contributed to this lack of empathy. All the wars fought by US soldiers in the last century were abroad - Americans have no concept of their homes being bombed 24/7, women and children dying in the street, masses of refugees moving on foot and living in squalor. Though in truth, Canadians don't either but there seems to be a different attitude. At least some Europeans can still remember, though even there you have the right wing "I got mine fuck you" sort of mentality on the rise.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

One of the saddest things about all this is the apparent lack of empathy that people have for fellow human beings. It breaks my heart. When I hear comments like "we just want them to come here legally!" or "the ban is just temporary for 3 months!" it really speaks to how cold and detached people have become to reality.

The ban may be temporary, but for many people 3 months is literally the difference between life and death. Many won't be able to come back because they will have been killed.

And wanting people to come here legally doesn't really address the conditions that forced people to flee in the first place. As humans, we have a natural survival instinct. It's in all of us. If you think that walking in frigid conditions for four days will lead to a better life, you'll do it, no matter who you are.

Again, we all need to have empathy for others, because one day that could be us, and we'll want people to be there in our time of need.

Anyway, read this. And just a note, the photos are really graphic.

The new underground railroad to Canada

They're human beings, and they deserve to be treated as such, regardless of their legal status. And if they're not causing trouble, I don't see the problem. There's people born and raised here who cause trouble, too. The part of the world you come from doesn't indicate whether or not you'll be a troublemaker, after all.

And people can't sit here and complain about how immigrants are mooching off the system only to then turn around and complain that they're "taking our jobs" when they do try and get work and make a life here. They can't have it both ways.

Walls and raids and bans and ripping families apart-none of that is going to solve any of the problems related to the immigration issue. It's just not. Anyone who honestly believes otherwise needs to get a clue.

 

[anitram]

Press conference, Trump ranting about his enormous electoral college win. Says he got 306 electoral votes, the biggest margin since Ronald Reagan.

Except you know, BOTH OF OBAMA'S VICTORIES which were bigger.

Liar.

 

[anitram]

Also, he is holding a 2020 campaign event (no, you didn't read this wrong) tomorrow in Florida.

 

[DreamOutLoud13]

The thing that saddens me even more than the lack of empathy are the people that have been so blinded by fearmongering that they can't see Muslims as anything other than monsters.

I unfortunately have to interact with one of these people in my daily life (the mother of a close friend). She firmly believes that they are out to kill us all. She refuses to accept that the Bible is just as "violent" as the Quran, and accused me of making up the Omagh bombing because she can't accept that white Christians would ever resort to violence in the name of religion.

 

[prbiker15]

Press conference, Trump ranting about his enormous electoral college win. Says he got 306 electoral votes, the biggest margin since Ronald Reagan.

Except you know, BOTH OF OBAMA'S VICTORIES which were bigger.

Liar.

We're fucked. Now every time the media fact checks, they're going to be ripped to shreds just because the President called them liars. So much brainwashing.

 

[anitram]

He just got called out for it by a reporter who said you accuse the media of fake news but why should the public believe you when you state things that are untrue. He then said he was talking about Republican margins of victory. The reporter pointed out that HW Bush got 400+ electoral votes. Trump then got huffy and said "it was the information I was given!" and moved on to the next question.

Kellyanne must have put together the speaking notes.

 

[BVS]

Well I can see by the absolute desert of support in here that the embarrassment is finally kicking in...

Or we can only hope.

 

[Babydoll]

The thing that saddens me even more than the lack of empathy are the people that have been so blinded by fearmongering that they can't see Muslims as anything other than monsters.

I unfortunately have to interact with one of these people in my daily life (the mother of a close friend). She firmly believes that they are out to kill us all. She refuses to accept that the Bible is just as "violent" as the Quran, and accused me of making up the Omagh bombing because she can't accept that white Christians would ever resort to violence in the name of religion.

I addressed this the best way I could on the first page of this thread. You might want to print it and show it to her, lol.

I take it you've shown her the passages in the Bible that are violent?

 

[Babydoll]

Well I can see by the absolute desert of support in here that the embarrassment is finally kicking in...

Or we can only hope.

Doubt it.