Trump General Discussion VI

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kiwilad said:
This I respect.
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Kiwi I don't claim to be perfect not by any stretch of the imagination but it really just seems like we get served the same garbage every two and four years and little snacks of it in between elections.

Both sides have an insane amount of baggage they need to account for.

There was a time I thought the Libertarians were the reformist party....I see them now more like a party who is lost in the woods trying to find their identity where the two establishment parties lost their identity and are constantly trying to find new ones.

I dunno mate I think we can all agree Washington sucks and its sucked for a very long time.
 
bloodysunday972 said:
Kiwi I don't claim to be perfect not by any stretch of the imagination but it really just seems like we get served the same garbage every two and four years and little snacks of it in between elections.

Both sides have an insane amount of baggage they need to account for.

There was a time I thought the Libertarians were the reformist party....I see them now more like a party who is lost in the woods trying to find their identity where the two establishment parties lost their identity and are constantly trying to find new ones.

I dunno mate I think we can all agree Washington sucks and its sucked for a very long time.
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Washington was moving in the right direction when Obama was in office then they went to trump and out the door it all went!
 
dabiggestu2fan said:
Washington was moving in the right direction when Obama was in office then they went to trump and out the door it all went!
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Not sure I agree with the sentiment Washington (in fact add any capital city of any democracy) was fine and dandy till now.
As capitalism ages, as democracy ages, rot sets in and there's little question we as voters need to be more vigilant than we have been about that.
Political parties have largely becomes machines in and of themselves, rather than collections of people representing the masses.

I get that sentiment, and I get the attraction to a Trump-like candidate based on that.

Except this particular candidate has been so hurtful to so many who he is now tasked with leading. Bloodysunday I get the argument, I just can't see how a self-confessed sex offender was the right candidate to hang it on.
 
kiwilad said:
Not sure I agree with the sentiment Washington (in fact add any capital city of any democracy) was fine and dandy till now.
As capitalism ages, as democracy ages, rot sets in and there's little question we as voters need to be more vigilant than we have been about that.
Political parties have largely becomes machines in and of themselves, rather than collections of people representing the masses.

I get that sentiment, and I get the attraction to a Trump-like candidate based on that.

Except this particular candidate has been so hurtful to so many who he is now tasked with leading. Bloodysunday I get the argument, I just can't see how a self-confessed sex offender was the right candidate to hang it on.
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I am going to get a lot of WTF'S but honestly I hung my hat on Rand Paul first and then Ted Cruz......Which I will admit his views on things like abortion and marriage had me screaming at the TV during the debates.

Actually I know its off subject but Ill share something with you. I got involved in politics to the point where I volunteered at the local GOP headquarters. As the election got closer we had some very open discussions and they were quite happy to have someone my age there (I'm 31). I told them flat out.....You want more people like me you need to embrace social issues like Abortion and Gay marriage......I'm sorry but people like me would have been with your party but the views the older generation of the GOP have pushed people like me away.

The older folks there looked at me with such disgust. The only one who was open to what I was saying was the head chairperson and even then it was like a "Oh we are we are."
 
bloodysunday972 said:
He has said he identified as a Democrat before he was a Republican.

Is it lip service? Probably.
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I'm not sure what your point is? He never ran for office until he ran for President as a Republican. Remember, he entered the political arena as a birther. When he considered jumping into the race for 2012 it certainly wasn't as a Dem.
 
bloodysunday972 said:
Re reading it yes it is but in the end if most of American throws me in with him because I voted for him over Clinton.....Well that is on them. I personally don't care Clinton didn't represent me as I've said but some of Trump's policies did and I voted for Trump over that.

And I find it a little one sided when they focus on Trump's pussy comment which I admit was disgusting but what about Clinton laughing about getting a rapist off? Or destroying numerous women's lives who spoke out against her husband.

There always seems to be some reason for explaining that away.
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First, the "laughing about getting a rapist off" is a fabricated story. Second, this is tu quoque.
Third, your reasoning is what PhillyFan meant with the privilege you have: Because you are none of the groups that Trump has painted as the enemy to "Great America", you have nothing to lose. And because you don't feel your solidarity is needed with the groups that are going to suffer, you can easily ignore what you didn't like and vote for him regardless. To top it all off, you are now calling for those who are being singled out and discredited, and those who are trying to bridge the divide between ethnicities, religions and political views to be the ones to reach out and overcome differences.
 
Anybody that wants to get more in-depth analysis from me can search the archives of my personal posts over the past couple weeks. This thread is moving at lightning speed, so its easy to miss some lengthy arguments I have made.

(I'm moving a little slow today)
 
bloodysunday972 said:
So I gotta ask one thing. Is it only going in the right direction when a Democrat is in charge? Its not a trolling question I am generally wondering if that is honestly what you believe?
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No I don't believe that but Obama did a decent job given the situation he was handed when Bush left office. He may not have been able to accomplish everything he promised but keep in mind that even before the day he took office, the republicans were already planning to block anything he tried to pass through. He could have been much more successful if everyone decided to work together instead of trying to cut him off at every chance they got. With that said, If the republicans had a decent candidate to continue on, I would have believed that perhaps they would have continued in the right direction, but it seems that trump was their pick so there is that.
 
anitram said:
This must come from the "accusing somebody of being racist for saying racist things is as bad as racism itself" school of thought.
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Not much else to expect from "if you fight a fascist you're a fascist yourself" hot takes.
 
Well, given that I disagree with the GOP platform on economic, military, and social policy, it's safe to say I'd be concerned about the direction of the country under any GOP president with a GOP congress. Also, given that our last GOP president was an utter disaster, I'm even more wary. But now they elected a man EVEN MORE disastrous than W who in 2 weeks has proven to be every bit as bad as I imagined.
 
And trump picked the party he thought would get him the win! He doesn't truly care whether he was a republican or democrat. All he cares about was winning the election and he tapped into the fears of many Americans and went with it all the way. Notice his campaign was all doom and gloom? I don't think the reality of the situation was all doom and gloom as he tried to sell people but unfortunately people bought it and now we are in a much bigger mess than anything Obama could have done!
 
And despite the obvious signs that this guy is a total disaster, trump supporters still believe that he will be their saviour to what ever doom and gloom they believe! This is what is sad and scary, because the USA wasn't doing as bad as trump made it out to be but now with trump in the driver seat, I believe it will get seriously bad. Heck when trump makes Bush look like a genius, you know you've got problems!
 
Oregoropa said:
This is what you are more worried about?

Fortunately we keep the number low of those killed by terrorism in the USA, thanks to our Intel/FBI.

It would be interesting how opinions might change, if hypothetically speaking, we had a new poster in FYM who worked for the CIA and just decided one night to post every classified Terror Attack that has been thwarted or under investigation over the past 15 years. (of course there would be some fringe crazy homegrown militia type plots in there to)

It would be a shock to the system.

Germany just conducted a huge terror raid yesterday. These intelligence agencies must have their hands full. If they want us to work on revamping the intake situation from countries without functioning governments, or that that have ISIS within their borders (Iraq) I will defer to them.
.
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Germany had a "fringe crazy homegrown militia" who for ten years moved around killing ten persons, nine of which were immigrants, for the sole reason being racism. The reason they moved freely for ten years was a kind of institutional racism on the part of the police and intelligence who were quick to name the series the "Döner murders" and were adamant the victims had to be involved in organised crime. Not once did it cross their minds that it could've been German neo-Nazis who did it, even though it was known these three people went into hiding in the late 1990s, they had a considerable support network and there were a few people trying to raise awareness of this being something to look into.

Research has shown that since 1990, more than 150 persons were killed by neo-Nazis in Germany. Their victims are immigrants, politically left and homeless.

Intelligence servicesindeed are very busy. But it's a stretch to claim 90 percent or more of the work is due to Islamic terrorism. It's also a bit strange that when it's about the Jihadi ideology, it's a huge threat, but when it comes to domestic terrorism, they immediately are "fringe crazy" individuals. Since we don't have a CIA (which, by the way, is foreign intelligence, so no surprise he doesn't have much to offer in terms of domestic terrorists) or other agency operative who is risking his job to give us insight on this forum, you will have to come up with some hard data to back your claims yourself.


bono_212 said:
“There is nobody better to tell me about Dodd-Frank than [JP Morgan C.E.O.] Jamie [Dimon]. So he has to tell me about it, but we expect to be cutting a lot from Dodd-Frank because, frankly, I have so many people, friends of mine, that have nice businesses, they can’t borrow money,” Trump said Friday morning, shortly before signing the executive orders. “They just can’t get any money because the banks just won’t let them borrow because of the rules and regulations in Dodd-Frank.”
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Merriam-Webster should include this in their description of the word "nepotism"
 
At least Forrest Trump gives me a reason to check Twitter everyday.
 
anitram said:
I'm waiting for Oregoropa to explain the Kellyanne Conway massacre x2 thing since he was insisting that she be given the benefit of the doubt and I believe said he'd condemn her if it became a repeat offence.

Would also be nice if bloodysunday admitted that he was ignorant about the "liberal judge" stacked by Obama who defied the executive order.

But we shouldn't hold our breath.
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Come on, she just accidentally misspoke three or four complete sentences. That happens when we speak extemporaneously. And who doesn't speak extemporaneously in a Cosmo interview?
 
bloodysunday972 said:
See? Again you have made up yer mind already. Would you be advocating for the right and and the independents to give Hillary a chance if she had won?

The progressives and the establishment Left would be screaming insults left and right if those on the other side didn't go with her agenda.
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That's oversimplifying the argument. A person who functions in the realm of politics you can give a chance. A person who is working outside, you can't.
A person who is reversing social progress, especially for minorities, won't be given a chance by anyone on the left. Nor do they have to. There is no obligation on them to say, "Oh well, he just called Mexicans rapists, but let's give him a chance.".
Lastly, he has already done enough during his lifetime, during his campaigning and now in his first two weeks to show what's he's like, and what is to be expected from him. So he had his chance, and he blew it.
 
Vincent Vega said:
Lastly, he has already done enough during his lifetime, during his campaigning and now in his first two weeks to show what's he's like, and what is to be expected from him. So he had his chance, and he blew it.
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That's it in a nutshell.
 
Vincent Vega said:
That's oversimplifying the argument. A person who functions in the realm of politics you can give a chance. A person who is working outside, you can't.
A person who is reversing social progress, especially for minorities, won't be given a chance by anyone on the left. Nor do they have to. There is no obligation on them to say, "Oh well, he just called Mexicans rapists, but let's give him a chance.".
Lastly, he has already done enough during his lifetime, during his campaigning and now in his first two weeks to show what's he's like, and what is to be expected from him. So he had his chance, and he blew it.
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Exactly. As the granddaughter of Mexican immigrants, his words about Mexico were a gut punch. I grew up in California, I've been called a wet back, and yet, I still felt like this country wanted people like me. The ugliness I've seen since Trump started running, and then won, was eye opening and discouraging. My point is, based on his words and complete lack of respect for women/minorities, I wasn't about to "give him a chance". He has to earn that and let's just say he hasn't come close to earning one yet.
 
trojanchick99 said:
My point is, based on his words and complete lack of respect for women/minorities, I wasn't about to "give him a chance". He has to earn that and let's just say he hasn't come close to earning one yet.
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Yep. He showed his true colors from the get-go and showed no remorse or understanding that his words hurt others. If he'd even apologized once, a sincere, honest apology, maybe, maybe it'd be a start. But he hasn't.

I like your comment about earning chances, too. I think a lot of people tend to forget nowadays that respect must be earned, and not be an automatic given.
 
Moonlit_Angel said:
Yep. He showed his true colors from the get-go and showed no remorse or understanding that his words hurt others. If he'd even apologized once, a sincere, honest apology, maybe, maybe it'd be a start. But he hasn't.

I like your comment about earning chances, too. I think a lot of people tend to forget nowadays that respect must be earned, and not be an automatic given.
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Exactly! I can't give him a chance if he doesn't earn it. I also hate the fact that some trump supporters expect and demand us to give him a chance. That's bs.
 
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