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Old 02-07-2017, 02:48 PM   #781
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This so sounds like something from the Onion
No kidding. Scary times.
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Old 02-07-2017, 03:14 PM   #782
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It is scary that a U.S. president would say this:

He was clearly joking but I bet in his mind he really wanted the name to destroy his career.
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Old 02-07-2017, 03:27 PM   #783
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Which really equates to guns; right? since he never really spoke of any other individual rights.
Not just that but that was one reason.
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Old 02-07-2017, 03:30 PM   #784
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well either she's wrong, you misquoted her, or she never said anything like that at all because he's obviously in violation of the emoluments clause and has been since day one, pretty sure constitutional lawyers are in general agreement about that.

i think that charge is going to be kept in the back pocket so that if he crosses republicans a bit too much they always have something they can hang him with. maybe being held as some leverage for mcconnell and ryan et al. i'm just speculating here, ofc.
Nancy Pelosi Slaps Down Trump Impeachment Talk | The Huffington Post

Pelosi was then asked if she agreed with Waters, and while she agreed that Waters’ litany of complaints were “grounds for displeasure,” she stopped short of advocating impeachment.

Pelosi said Trump had acted in a way that is “strategically incoherent, that is incompetent, and that is reckless.”

“And that is not grounds for impeachment,” Pelosi continued. “When and if he breaks the law, that is grounds for when something like that would come up.”
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Old 02-07-2017, 03:52 PM   #785
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Not just that but that was one reason.
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Old 02-07-2017, 03:53 PM   #786
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Originally Posted by Babydoll View Post
I think through two things - ignorance of the reality of Sharia, and much publicised cases where Muslims in positions of authority have been very poor Muslims, if not non-Muslims in Muslim disguise. For example, 100 years ago we had stories of awful Turkish sultans, and people being rushed to blocks to have their hands cut off etc. The media picks out certain cases and blows them up. This current (mis)interpretation of Sharia derives from the media, imams who misinterpret it for their own control and power, etc. Christianity has cases of people being awful, too. Westbro, for example?

What you see and call Sharia law today, evidenced only by the gross actions of people in power, is not what the Quran or Hadiths claim. You have extremists in all religions, no?
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Source?

Plenty have condemned extremists and extremism, and plenty are continuing to do so, including folks in power. And why do you even expect all the moderate ones to speak up? Is that fair? Did you expect all white teenagers to 'speak up' after Dylan Roof?

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I'd like it if you responded to my posts on the previous page, bloodysunday. I like a good, intellectual debate.

I believe you are right that there are but it seems like at least to a lot of the West that there are not nearly enough of them speaking out. Unfortunately religion has been a tool of both great good and great evil.

The thing that bothers me at least in some cases is it feels like the Muslim faith is like the Elephant in the room no one wants to talk about because of the possible reaction. The Christian religion gets debated all the time but the Muslim faith is a touchy subject.
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Old 02-07-2017, 03:54 PM   #787
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You can believe what you want bud its a free country.
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Old 02-07-2017, 03:57 PM   #788
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Originally Posted by Babydoll View Post
I think through two things - ignorance of the reality of Sharia, and much publicised cases where Muslims in positions of authority have been very poor Muslims, if not non-Muslims in Muslim disguise. For example, 100 years ago we had stories of awful Turkish sultans, and people being rushed to blocks to have their hands cut off etc. The media picks out certain cases and blows them up. This current (mis)interpretation of Sharia derives from the media, imams who misinterpret it for their own control and power, etc. Christianity has cases of people being awful, too. Westbro, for example?

What you see and call Sharia law today, evidenced only by the gross actions of people in power, is not what the Quran or Hadiths claim. You have extremists in all religions, no?
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Originally Posted by Babydoll View Post
Source?

Plenty have condemned extremists and extremism, and plenty are continuing to do so, including folks in power. And why do you even expect all the moderate ones to speak up? Is that fair? Did you expect all white teenagers to 'speak up' after Dylan Roof?

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I'd like it if you responded to my posts on the previous page, bloodysunday. I like a good, intellectual debate.

I believe you are right that there are but it seems like at least to a lot of the West that there are not nearly enough of them speaking out. Unfortunately religion has been a tool of both great good and great evil.

The thing that bothers me at least in some cases is it feels like the Muslim faith is like the Elephant in the room no one wants to talk about because of the possible reaction. The Christian religion gets debated all the time but the Muslim faith is a touchy subject.
Perhaps it's a touchy subject because Muslims are being targeted and stereotyped? When you read the word Muslims honestly what is the first word that comes to mind?
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Old 02-07-2017, 04:17 PM   #789
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Perhaps it's a touchy subject because Muslims are being targeted and stereotyped? When you read the word Muslims honestly what is the first word that comes to mind?
This is true too. It's being played out by both sides.

But we have to be able to talk about the ideas behind the Islamic faith that don't work with Western/Liberal values: Basic human rights.

The Trump team likes to paint all Muslims as terrorists, and that fear mongering is what leads towards the unfair treatment and lashing out.

Parts of the Left/Liberal side will shut down any criticism of Islam by saying we are "racist, bigoted, Islamophobia".

I feel it should come down to this. Do we believe that all humans should have the basic rights that we claim to own and cherish here in the Western world? A lot of those basic rights do not exist in the Muslim world (and parts of Africa run by extreme Christians).

It's not even the Western way of life that is suffering the most, it's the people who live in these countries that are ruled upon by Kings, Dictators, or other oppressive government that chooses it's faith to rule by.

I am not afraid of Sharia Law, but I'm sure millions of Muslims are.

We do need to have thoughtful discussions on topics like this, without demonizing groups of people. Focus on the ideas, or the actions being carried out based on ideas/beliefs.

But we don't.
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Old 02-07-2017, 04:57 PM   #790
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You can believe what you want bud its a free country.


Oh I know you want to feel like this is true, it's a neat Republican catchphrase, but I can't think of any individual rights that Trump spoke about that Clinton was against
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Old 02-07-2017, 05:07 PM   #791
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Betsy DeVos has been confirmed by the Senate, proving that Republicans will not stand up to Trump in just about any instance. (Exceptions and kudos to McCain and Mitt Romney and John Kasich.) I am now putting my faith in the younger generation, who very nearly pulled off a win for Bernie Sanders. I'm generalizing, of course, but it seems that people of the Baby Boomer generation and older have become too materialistic, too complacent, and too willing to swallow lies to make any lasting changes in this country. Our grandchildren will be shaking their heads in disbelief regarding what is happening in America today.
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Old 02-07-2017, 05:19 PM   #792
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Trump General Discussion VI

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Betsy DeVos has been confirmed by the Senate, proving that Republicans will not stand up to Trump in just about any instance. (Exceptions and kudos to McCain and Mitt Romney and John Kasich.) I am now putting my faith in the younger generation, who very nearly pulled off a win for Bernie Sanders. I'm generalizing, of course, but it seems that people of the Baby Boomer generation and older have become too materialistic, too complacent, and too willing to swallow lies to make any lasting changes in this country. Our grandchildren will be shaking their heads in disbelief regarding what is happening in America today.


Grandchildren? That's very optimistic of you.
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Old 02-07-2017, 05:19 PM   #793
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I've nothing to add to the Davos discussion, really, but I thought this was a very good comment on reddit. What a sham.

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Old 02-07-2017, 05:24 PM   #794
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Originally Posted by bloodysunday972 View Post
Originally Posted by Babydoll View Post
I think through two things - ignorance of the reality of Sharia, and much publicised cases where Muslims in positions of authority have been very poor Muslims, if not non-Muslims in Muslim disguise. For example, 100 years ago we had stories of awful Turkish sultans, and people being rushed to blocks to have their hands cut off etc. The media picks out certain cases and blows them up. This current (mis)interpretation of Sharia derives from the media, imams who misinterpret it for their own control and power, etc. Christianity has cases of people being awful, too. Westbro, for example?

What you see and call Sharia law today, evidenced only by the gross actions of people in power, is not what the Quran or Hadiths claim. You have extremists in all religions, no?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babydoll View Post
Source?

Plenty have condemned extremists and extremism, and plenty are continuing to do so, including folks in power. And why do you even expect all the moderate ones to speak up? Is that fair? Did you expect all white teenagers to 'speak up' after Dylan Roof?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Babydoll View Post
I'd like it if you responded to my posts on the previous page, bloodysunday. I like a good, intellectual debate.

I believe you are right that there are but it seems like at least to a lot of the West that there are not nearly enough of them speaking out. Unfortunately religion has been a tool of both great good and great evil.

The thing that bothers me at least in some cases is it feels like the Muslim faith is like the Elephant in the room no one wants to talk about because of the possible reaction. The Christian religion gets debated all the time but the Muslim faith is a touchy subject.
The largest group killed by ISIS are Shia Muslim. Also in Afghanistan, more Muslims die at the hands of the Taliban than any other religious demography.

There is a huge debate in the "Islamic world". Regularly, Muslims hold vigils, they denounce terror attacks and show solidarity, and if possible even organise marches and other public events. I say if possible, because in a number of the countries that is exactly the problem. Other reasons include economic factors, lack of education or simply misinformation.

While there's considerable news coverage of terror attacks, much less attention is given to these events, or the large civil society (which more often than not is working while being clamped down by authorities), or the internal debates in these countries. Because you don't hear it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

It is indeed striking that for some reason Muslims have to dissociate themselves from terror attacks as if they were somehow responsible for what anybody else is doing, or unless they publically announce it, they could be sympathising with it, whilst no other group ever needs to. How many people came forward after Charleston, or now Quebec, to say "Not in my name!"? Are we calling upon ordinary citizens who never voiced any support for hatred to expressly state they also don't condone this violence?

Of course there are elements who are trying to shut down any discussion about Islam. They have to be called out and taken out of the conversation. But in general, there are countless discussions about the religion every day, which go completely unhindered. What people take issue with is, however, the arrogance and patronising that all too often accompanies these discussions, tacit suspicion of all Muslims, lack of inclusion into the discussion, lack of knowledge about the religion and its different schools, a lack of awareness of the responsibility borne by the Western countries etc.
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Old 02-07-2017, 05:24 PM   #795
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Amen. Easiest way to try and make young people turn out as ignorant as the party currently running the country.

(This is in response to the reddit post gareth shared.)
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Old 02-07-2017, 05:54 PM   #796
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Betsy DeVos has been confirmed by the Senate, proving that Republicans will not stand up to Trump in just about any instance. (Exceptions and kudos to McCain and Mitt Romney and John Kasich.) I am now putting my faith in the younger generation, who very nearly pulled off a win for Bernie Sanders. I'm generalizing, of course, but it seems that people of the Baby Boomer generation and older have become too materialistic, too complacent, and too willing to swallow lies to make any lasting changes in this country. Our grandchildren will be shaking their heads in disbelief regarding what is happening in America today.
All of this is fairly off the mark, I'd say.
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Old 02-07-2017, 06:03 PM   #797
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McCain voted for Betsy. So much for being a Maverick
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Old 02-07-2017, 06:16 PM   #798
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McCain voted for Betsy. So much for being a Maverick
McCain is and has always been disgusting trash, you only have yourself to blame if you thought otherwise.
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Old 02-07-2017, 06:57 PM   #799
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McCain is and has always been disgusting trash, you only have yourself to blame if you thought otherwise.


Dunno about that. He certainly represents a lot of views I disagree with, but he can be met across the isle. And he can be reasoned with on social domestic views. He's pretty much the anti-Donald when it comes to the whole Muslim thing. From the republicans, he's probably the definition of "not a bad guy."

This vote was pretty weak on his behalf.
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Old 02-07-2017, 07:01 PM   #800
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McCain voted for Betsy. So much for being a Maverick
He's a Maverick who can be bought. DeVos donated quite a bit of money to him.
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