Trump General Discussion VI

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Not only is it not the same, but Obama mispronouncing a term is hardly equivalent to the likely millions of Trump supporters who are going to be walking around actually believing that the massacre occurred. Because they read it on Facebook or Twitter and it's as good as gold.

And no, you don't get to call anything an "attempted massacre" that didn't actually happen, particularly when this is inciteful language contributing to the already toxic environment of Islamophobia.

If you can't see the difference, then you're truly beyond reach.
 
Just out of interest, would you support a war with Iran?

If they became a belligerent threat. A future preemptive strike against nuclear payload missiles aimed at Israel and longer-range missiles that could hit our allies in Eastern Europe is a scenario needs to be war-gamed out.

We have been having exchanges with them in the Gulf and Straight of Hormuz since the 80s. There has been a contained war of skirmishes and accidents for quite a long time. This week is only a continuation of that.

I prefer a more Muscular approach occurring now instead of giving them party favors of 150 billion dollars (sent without congressional approval). As part of a deal that only seems to benefit their intentions of becoming a nuclear power. They just goofed up that whole deal up with their missile test. Should be null and void.
 
toxic environment of Islamophobia.

.

This is what you are more worried about?

Fortunately we keep the number low of those killed by terrorism in the USA, thanks to our Intel/FBI.

It would be interesting how opinions might change, if hypothetically speaking, we had a new poster in FYM who worked for the CIA and just decided one night to post every classified Terror Attack that has been thwarted or under investigation over the past 15 years. (of course there would be some fringe crazy homegrown militia type plots in there to)

It would be a shock to the system.

Germany just conducted a huge terror raid yesterday. These intelligence agencies must have their hands full. If they want us to work on revamping the intake situation from countries without functioning governments, or that that have ISIS within their borders (Iraq) I will defer to them.

BTW: Yesterday the posts were going so fast. Wrote a long one where I did want to say I empathize with your personal experience as a refugee. I get arguing nuts and bolts so much in debate I don't pause to reflect on personal cause and effect. Don't want to be cold.
 
I just saw somebody on another site I go to coomment on tha Bowling Green thing.

They live in Bowling Green, and made it quite clear that Kellyanne's comments were ludicrous, to say the least. To compare Obama making a gaffe with Kellyanne peddling bald-faced lies is equally as ludicrous.

Also, in regards to the recent debates here about guns and such...

Wait a minute. So you reckon not taking in refugees on the odd chance of a potential terrorrist is perfectly legit, but you think gun laws are like going after a mosquito with an elephant gun? Risk psychology at its finest.

Republican Party logic, as follows:

"We can't put restrictions/bans on guns, 'cause criminals will just find ways to get around the laws and use them anyway.

But putting bans/restrictions on women choosing to have an abortion? Putting up a wall to keep out immigrants, and banning/restricting people from other countries from coming to the U.S.? Yeah, that's totally cool. Nobody will EVER find ways around those bans/restrictions, apparently!"
 
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This is what you are more worried about?

When it comes to Kellyanne Conway lying like it's breathing, I am absolutely more concerned about the effect it has on poorly informed voters who are not capable of doing adequate risk assessments, who do not understand the process of being granted asylum in the US, who can't tell Sunni or Shia apart and who are very responsive to fear mongering. Such people, when fed paranoid lies about terrorist attacks that have never occurred, will live in a state of paranoid fear, spread this lie among their social circle which equally does not participate in critical thinking and that is a dangerous and slippery slope we are on. She is contributing to this toxic environment and should not be invited on any media so long as she chooses to lie. The next time she says something so appalling, the interview should end and she should get the boot immediately. Believe me, the "relationship" with the media would improve real quick.

Terrorist threats are real and need to be dealt with and addressed by adults who are trained and capable of making intelligent decisions. Fearmongering by liars like Conway does not make anybody safer, it only polarizes an already radically polarized nation.

She is a waste of space.
 
When it comes to Kellyanne Conway lying like it's breathing, I am absolutely more concerned about the effect it has on poorly informed voters who are not capable of doing adequate risk assessments, who do not understand the process of being granted asylum in the US, who can't tell Sunni or Shia apart and who are very responsive to fear mongering. Such people, when fed paranoid lies about terrorist attacks that have never occurred, will live in a state of paranoid fear, spread this lie among their social circle which equally does not participate in critical thinking and that is a dangerous and slippery slope we are on. She is contributing to this toxic environment and should not be invited on any media so long as she chooses to lie. The next time she says something so appalling, the interview should end and she should get the boot immediately. Believe me, the "relationship" with the media would improve real quick.

Terrorist threats are real and need to be dealt with and addressed by adults who are trained and capable of making intelligent decisions. Fearmongering by liars like Conway does not make anybody safer, it only polarizes an already radically polarized nation.

She is a waste of space.

The right have become an absolute means justifies the ends party of robots, they don't give a shit about the truth. This is our future.

And today Trump will allow the church to be able to endorse candidates, well blatantly, so that vote is paid for.

So the evangelicals and the ignorant are shoe ins so far.
 
Even the best of us screw up when speaking extemporaneously. Remember when Obama said we had 57 states? Or when he pronounced Navy Corpsman as Corpse-Man twice in a teleprompter speech? (That was rough)

Not gonna post the videos, as long as you trust me they exist.

This is absurd and to see people on CNNs panel trying to pedal the same shit this morning made me nauseated. You know what Kellyanne was doing, and you know that's how this administration is run. They know how the sound-bites + Facebook work. They know the damage is done, and that they justified any doubts their base may have had for the ban, because they know that they're going to believe the Facebook posts, and not that one retracted tweet where she says she misspoke. As one member of the panel I happened to be watching said, even if she did misspeak, 1) It was a taped event, not live, she could've corrected herself. 2) If you use her correction in the sentence and replace massacre with terrorist, as she says she meant (not this story you're peddling about her leaving out the word "attempted") it makes NO sense whatsoever.

Bottom line: She's full of it, and accomplished her mission to put a new piece of fake news out there.

Also, please correct me if I'm wrong, because I want to know, but my understanding is that the people in Bowling Green, while bad people, were not planning terrorism in the US, but elsewhere.

Correcting myself, I misunderstood what I was reading on the closed captioning of CNN (forgive me, I was running on a treadmill at the time).

Per WaPo:

And what about Paul’s claim of an attempted bombing? He is on more solid ground than Conway. ABC News reported in 2013:
Prosecutors later revealed at Hammadi’s sentencing hearing that he and Alwan had been caught on an FBI surveillance tape talking about using a bomb to assassinate an Army captain they’d known in Bayji, who was now back home — and to possibly attack other homeland targets.
“Many things should take place and it should be huge,” Hammadi told Alwan in an FBI-recorded conversation, which a prosecutor read at Hammadi’s sentencing last year.
Despite this incident, which resulted in tougher vetting of Iraqi refugees, it is important to remember that resettled refugees have not been a major terrorist threat to the U.S. homeland. On occasion, refugees have posed terrorism threats and have been linked to international terrorist groups: There have been at least 10 occasions since 2009 when refugees were arrested on terrorism-related charges in the United States, but that’s a tiny percentage of the refugees admitted in that period.
 
Sure, you could say that. Only difference is that you talk about the right to your gun (in a country with the highest gun violence rate in Western society) and I talk about the right of safety for refugees.

If you can pass judgement on Merkel and the EU than I can have an opinion on US gun laws. At least I have numbers on my side that lack of US gun law is a farce, while the EU is still not the political and economic disaster you would liken it to be.

Salome it still doesn't change things does it. Yes the gun issue is a complex one but its nothing new. You all say well its because the pro gun movement is too selfish. I pose the counter argument the anti gunners are too rabid. You could find common ground on background checks but for the anti gun movement that is not good enough so it puts the pro gun movement on the defensive.

And you talk about refugees safety? What about the people who are already citizens of those countries the refugees are coming into.....What about their safety? I pass judgement on the EU because if certain factions had their way the same restrictions would be placed here.

This is not the first gun control conversation I've had with the other side of the pond and it won't be the last and it always ends the same way.

OH OH and while everyone is getting so uppity about the travel ban guess what Middle Eastern Country just imposed its own set of travel bans......Kuwait.

So I guess Kuwait is Islamaphobic now as well?
 
BTW: Yesterday the posts were going so fast. Wrote a long one where I did want to say I empathize with your personal experience as a refugee. I get arguing nuts and bolts so much in debate I don't pause to reflect on personal cause and effect. Don't want to be cold.

Thanks for this, I went back to see it, appreciated.
 
Hahaha, Trump trying to claim the jobs report today. Because OF COURSE he is.

Jesus.....It doesn't matter if the guy found the cure for cancer and the end of world debt you would still find something wrong with how he did it.

The simple fact is he wasn't your pick so he can never do anything right in the eyes of the left..

That is what it comes down to. Every president can make mistakes but you guys are gathered like a pack of ravenous Hyena's waiting for him to **** up.

The Hypocrisy of the left is astounding sometimes.
 
I pose the counter argument the anti gunners are too rabid.

...

So I guess Kuwait is Islamaphobic now as well?

We are rabid because we'd rather restrict gun ownership than have 6-year-olds slaughtered?

You should read up on Kuwait. They have their own geopolitical agenda for their immigration policy.
 
Some good mansplainin' coming our way, ladies.

President Donald Trump will be advised on women in the workforce -- by two male executives.

The Trump administration has selected two male CEOs to advise Trump on women in the workforce as part of a meeting with business leaders Friday, The Wall Street Journal reported.

Doug McMillon, chief executive of Wal-Mart, and Mark Weinberger, chief executive of EY, will advise Trump on the issues, though it's not clear what exactly they'll be discussing.
 
Jesus.....It doesn't matter if the guy found the cure for cancer and the end of world debt you would still find something wrong with how he did it.

The simple fact is he wasn't your pick so he can never do anything right in the eyes of the left..

That is what it comes down to. Every president can make mistakes but you guys are gathered like a pack of ravenous Hyena's waiting for him to **** up.

The Hypocrisy of the left is astounding sometimes.

You realize, HE WASN'T PRESIDENT during the time the jobs report covered. He doesn't get to take credit for it.

All I'm doing is holding him to the same standard as our previous president. Thus far he hasn't even hit the standard of W, which is a very low bar.
 
We are rabid because we'd rather restrict gun ownership than have 6-year-olds slaughtered?

You should read up on Kuwait. They have their own geopolitical agenda for their immigration policy.

Oh for ****'s sake not the for the children argument again. Politicians don't give a toss about people who die from gun violence unless its to push an agenda. You want to know why I believe this? I came home and turned on the news and Sandy Hook was still fresh on the news and already the political left were calling for bans and restrictions.....The blood wasn't even cold yet!

That proved to me they didn't care at all about those kids. For people like Dianne Fienstein they were a means to an end.....And its horrible that dead children could be used as props to push an agenda.

Remember when Columbine happened? There were bans in place then and what did the establishment do? Look for another scape goat.....Heavy Metal music, Violent video games, Movies etc etc. If its not guns its media if its not media its something else.

As far as Kuwait goes Ill look more deeply into that.
 
Jesus.....It doesn't matter if the guy found the cure for cancer and the end of world debt you would still find something wrong with how he did it.

when donald trump cures cancer and turns the world into a communist utopia, then i promise i'll reconsider my feelings on him. until then this is just meaningless whining.
 
Oh for ****'s sake not the for the children argument again. Politicians don't give a toss about people who die from gun violence unless its to push an agenda. You want to know why I believe this? I came home and turned on the news and Sandy Hook was still fresh on the news and already the political left were calling for bans and restrictions.....The blood wasn't even cold yet!

That proved to me they didn't care at all about those kids. For people like Dianne Fienstein they were a means to an end.....And its horrible that dead children could be used as props to push an agenda.

yes, the time to talk about how we can stop children being murdered is definitely not when it is happening. let's wait until after the all killing and violence just stops for no reason for a while before we concern ourselves with them. that is definitely how things work. we all know the logically appropriate time to talk about fixing dire problems is when they are not happening at all. you're making such good sense here :up:
 
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The simple fact is he wasn't your pick so he can never do anything right in the eyes of the left..

Not even remotely true. If Trump had come in and tried to act even remotely presidential, if he'd done a few decent things his first few days in office, if he'd picked some decent people to add to his cabinet, I would definitely acknowledge and praise those choices. As would every other non-Trump supporter here.

But Trump has done absolutely none of that thus far. He's acted like an ass in public, he's made blunder after blunder, he's fanning the flames of xenophobia, he's letting truly scary and/or inexperienced people be part of his cabinet, he's firing anyone who dares to speak out against anything he's doing (apparently he forgets this job isn't like his time on "The Apprentice"?), he and his people are blatantly lying to the public and pushing false narratives.

Why in the hell should we respect or support any of that?

That is what it comes down to. Every president can make mistakes but you guys are gathered like a pack of ravenous Hyena's waiting for him to **** up.

Maybe because he IS messing things up? I feel like you're completely missing the point of why we're "jumping" on him. There's mistakes, and then there's just having absolutely zero clue of what the hell you're doing. Trump is in the latter boat, and he deserves to be called out for all the crap he's pulling.
 
You realize, HE WASN'T PRESIDENT during the time the jobs report covered. He doesn't get to take credit for it.

All I'm doing is holding him to the same standard as our previous president. Thus far he hasn't even hit the standard of W, which is a very low bar.

That we can agree on.

But Trump has been in less than a month.

You guys asked me what I think of Trump.....Well I can tell you what I think he needs to do.
1.Stop going off half cocked (You can make policy but listen to those in the various agencies. They are tools to help the president and he needs to utilize them.
2.While some of his picks have been good a lot of them come across as paying back political favors......That needs to stop. He campaigned on draining the swamp......Well he needs to fulfill that promise.
3.Stop being so thin skinned. Bush was made fun of his whole time in office and he just let it roll of his back. Hell his father U2 called almost every night during the ZOO TV tour and while SR had his moments of irritation he also pretty much let it roll off his back. Trump needs to grow up. You can be tough but you can't act like a kid!
 
Jesus.....It doesn't matter if the guy found the cure for cancer and the end of world debt you would still find something wrong with how he did it.



The simple fact is he wasn't your pick so he can never do anything right in the eyes of the left..



That is what it comes down to. Every president can make mistakes but you guys are gathered like a pack of ravenous Hyena's waiting for him to **** up.



The Hypocrisy of the left is astounding sometimes.



Will you stop with this?!!! We've seen you copy/paste this post a dozen times. It's not about perfection. Did you even read her post? She's laughing at this narcissist claiming numbers that can't reflect any of his economic policies.

And there is no way in hell any Trump voter can accuse anyone of hypocrisy.
 
Oh for ****'s sake not the for the children argument again. Politicians don't give a toss about people who die from gun violence unless its to push an agenda. You want to know why I believe this? I came home and turned on the news and Sandy Hook was still fresh on the news and already the political left were calling for bans and restrictions.....The blood wasn't even cold yet!

Who is talking about politicians?

I'm talking about the many of us sane individuals, who value children's lives more than your right to own a gun. If looking at my 15-month-old son and thinking that he's more valuable than your weapon makes me rabid, sure, I'm rabid.
 
Not even remotely true. If Trump had come in and tried to act even remotely presidential, if he'd done a few decent things his first few days in office, if he'd picked some decent people to add to his cabinet, I would definitely acknowledge and praise those choices. As would every other non-Trump supporter here.

But Trump has done absolutely none of that thus far. He's acted like an ass in public, he's made blunder after blunder, he's fanning the flames of xenophobia, he's letting truly scary and/or inexperienced people be part of his cabinet, he's firing anyone who dares to speak out against anything he's doing (apparently he forgets this job isn't like his time on "The Apprentice"?), he and his people are blatantly lying to the public and pushing false narratives.

Why in the hell should we respect or support any of that?



Maybe because he IS messing things up? I feel like you're completely missing the point of why we're "jumping" on him. There's mistakes, and then there's just having absolutely zero clue of what the hell you're doing. Trump is in the latter boat, and he deserves to be called out for all the crap he's pulling.

Maybe I am not seeing the bigger picture. The truth is Moonlit on election night seeing the rioting & protesting. People getting hurt & destruction of property because certain elements of the left their choice didn't win may have painted a unfair picture of how the left feels right now.

There are a lot of elements of the left that just want to express how they are feeling in a peaceful way. And then you have elements of the left who just want to watch it burn. I think the media focuses more on those elements because it brings in viewers.

So maybe I do have a one dimensional view of the left right now but certain aspects are not helping the view. Much like certain aspects of the right make the conservatives look disgusting.
 
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