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Old 01-28-2017, 08:18 AM   #401
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President Trump’s executive order closing the nation’s borders to refugees was put into immediate effect Friday night. Refugees who were in the air on the way to the United States when the order was signed were stopped and detained at airports.
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The MS St. Louis was a German ocean liner most notable for a single voyage in 1939, in which its captain, Gustav Schröder, tried to find homes for 908 Jewish refugees from Germany. After they were denied entry to Cuba, the United States, and Canada, the refugees were finally accepted in various European countries, and historians have estimated that approximately a quarter of them died in death camps during World War II.
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Old 01-28-2017, 08:40 AM   #402
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Appalling. Just disgusting. Where is the humanity?

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According to the filing, Hameed Khalid Darweesh was granted a special immigrant visa on January 20th, the same day as President Trump’s inauguration. He worked with the United States in Iraq in a variety of jobs — as an interpreter, engineer and contractor — over the course of roughly a decade.

Mr. Darweesh worked as an interpreter for the Army’s 101st Airborne Division in Baghdad and Mosul starting shortly after the invasion of Iraq on April 1, 2003. The filing said that he was directly targeted twice for working with the American military.

A husband and father of three, he arrived at Kennedy Airport Friday evening with his family. Mr. Darweesh’s wife and children made it through passport control and customs, but agents of Customs and Border Protection stopped and detained him.
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Old 01-28-2017, 08:46 AM   #403
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Trump General Discussion V

I... don't even know how to respond to the Islamic nation immigration executive order. It's disgusting. It's loathsome. It's absolutely terrifying that this is possible in 2017, in a country that was led by Barack Obama just over a week ago.

All those people who said that Trump was just saying ridiculous things to get elected, that he didn't mean what he said, that we shouldn't take him seriously..

This makes me sick.

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Old 01-28-2017, 08:56 AM   #404
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Fucking hell..
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Old 01-28-2017, 09:26 AM   #405
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He's ripping into the New York Times and Washington Post this morning. The guy is deranged and will start a war sooner or later.
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Old 01-28-2017, 09:56 AM   #406
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Cool cool

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7550601.html
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:08 AM   #407
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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
Trump views the current situation as a war against a conquest ideology that has infiltrated and perverted a religion. The intelligence chiefs, military generals, under Obama, have all warned that ISIS has stated they intend to embed themselves in the refugee stream. Has already happened in European attacks. He said he was going to do this 13 months ago until we had more extreme vetting. Establishing a safe zone to do this. Can Putin and Trump work on this safe zone during their phone call tomorrow? We shall see.

If you have the view that ISIS is already at war with us, this is a common sense temporary move to protect our own citizenry.

If you view terrorism as a more nuanced problem, an unfortunate form of collateral damage from free global movement, then this might be disgraceful
The comparison with Europe is not valid, as the systems are entirely different.
For a Syrian or Iraqi ISIS member to come to the States as a refugee would mean they'd have to come to either Kurdistan (Iraq), Lebanon, Jordan or Turkey and get registered as such a refugee by UNHCR. Then they'd have to apply for resettlement. Then they'd have to be lucky enough to even be considered for resettlement to the US. Next would be language and cultural trainings accompanied with thorough background checks and other forms of vetting. They'd have to fool a shitload of people of no fewer than a dozen agencies for two years to win the lottery ticket.

According to defectors which have been found to be trustworthy, al-Adnani, second in line of ISIS and one of the key ideologists who before his death was responsible for all "foreign" activities (i.e. outside ISIS territories) even stated there was no need in trying to recruit and somehow move people into the States. All that was needed was to recruit people living there online, get them to go get a rifle and they will be far more effective than any attempt of smuggling someone in.

Trump wouldn't even be able to state the fundamental difference between ISIS and Jabhat Fateh al-Sham (ex al Nusra Front) or why the two are even separately vying for contol in Syria. He probably even thinks ISIS, ISIL, IS and Daesh are four different groups. He would likely see a Shia Muslim and say it's an ISIS fighter. And he claims to have a cunning plan to win the fight against ISIS.

Safe zone with Putin? You must have ignored the entire conflict if you believe that Putin is interested in a genuine safe zone. And where? The only area where that is feasible is the north. Which already is fairly safe. But it's mostly controlled by the Kurdish, whom are under attack by Turkey, which in turn is best friends with Putin since they made up over the shooting down of the SU-25. A safe zone without Kurdish involvement is not realistic, but Turkey views any acknowledgement of the YPG as an affront.
Also, the residents of East Aleppo who haven't been killed or disappeared were forced to go to Idlib which is to the West of Aleppo. They also told fighters of rebel groups, but also those affiliated with Fateh-al-Sham, to go there. Where ever civilians go, the game will continue: Assad and Putin will claim there are Islamic terrorists among them, and they will bomb the places and kill indiscriminately.

Working together with Putin will not accomplish a safe future for Syrians, it will further mean working together with Assad, Hezbollah and Iran, and it will be a most devastating message to the rest of the world (which after this past week is quite difficult, but Trump never disappoints).
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:14 AM   #408
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Originally Posted by the iron horse View Post
Which one?





I thought it was very transparent that he signed every executive order in front of cameras and commented on most of them what they were about.



Except you attacked Obama for executive orders as being overreach.

No consistency. Hypocrisy. Sad.


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Old 01-28-2017, 10:17 AM   #409
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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post

BTW: Not a Libertarian. I'm a Reagan-Conservative-Trumpian hybrid that likes to smoke weed.

I know. If I was referring to a libertarian I was referring to the old iron horse.


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Old 01-28-2017, 10:35 AM   #410
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Also bob who is only economically libertarian
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:14 AM   #411
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People with green cards not allowed in confirmed. This is utterly disgusting.https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/825367399914405888
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:30 AM   #412
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A good friend was sponsoring a Syrian family who had spent 12 YEARS in a refugee camp. They were scheduled to arrive at O'Hare on Monday, and in anticipation had sold all their belongings and left the camp, arrived at orientation prior to the flight, and are now being sent back to the camp, with NOTHING.

Can you imagine spending 12 years in a refugee camp, being so excited at the prospect of being able to start again in a country that supposedly believes in freedom of religion and the right to the pursuit of happiness, and then being turned away 3 DAYS before the start of your new life and told you're not welcome anymore?

This is absolutely disgraceful. On Holocaust Remembrance Day, our country literally turned away refugees at our doors. On the same day that Mike Pence, who had previously described a ban on Muslims entering the country as un-American and unconstitutional, had the temerity to proclaim that life was winning again in America, America made a move that will result in the loss of innocent life.

I am livid right now. LIVID.
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:41 AM   #413
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Originally Posted by bobsaget77 View Post
My point was that I don't take any of these "let's get Trump out of office" posts seriously. It's completely absurd. Give the man a chance.
No. Sorry. I cannot do that. He made his true colors clear from the very beginning of his campaign, and everything he's done this first week in office has done nothing to reassure me or make me feel any safer or happier about the direction he'll take our country. He's going to screw over people like me who rely on Obamacare, this executive order banning people from various countries from coming here is complete and total bullshit and goes against everything this country stands for, he's continuing to act like an immature baby on Twitter, his cabinet is full of a bunch of horrifically ignorant people, he's pushing ahead with a lot of the his ideas that are unfeasible and scary. And that's not taking into account all the horrible things he said on the campaign trail, and his attitude towards women, and so on.

One week in and he's already fucking this country up and horrifying people around the world with his actions.

No. He needs to go. He is not good for our country. At all. There is nothing defensible about any of what he's doing.
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:44 AM   #414
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This is disgusting, unAmerican bullshit.

Fucking disgraceful.
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:46 AM   #415
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#notfascist


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Old 01-28-2017, 11:48 AM   #416
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Originally Posted by BVS View Post
Except you attacked Obama for executive orders as being overreach.

No consistency. Hypocrisy. Sad.
THANK YOU. Seriously, where's the conservative outrage here?
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:52 AM   #417
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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
Your Avatar, Linda Sarsour (organizer of the woman's march) had some nice things to say about the benefits of Sharia


How does she feel about the rest of Sharia that would be completely antithetical to the Women's March?

Christians and Jews can pick what tenants they want to follow from their own faith. If she is doing the same with her faith then that's OK. Jews/Christians hard some crazy punishments in the Old Testament. Just wondering if she clarified, because Sharia in practice in 2016 is pretty heavy stuff.

It wasn't just White Christians who bled in San Bernardino. A tightening of Visa controls could have stopped that attack by tracking the female shooter. Granted Saudi Arabia and Pakistan aren't on the list of countries. It is not a total Muslim stop order.

Linda Sarsour was the organiser indeed.
The woman in Irvine's avatar she is not. That woman is: Munira Ahmed

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“It’s an honor because of what the picture represents,” Ahmed said. “It’s not anti-anything. It’s about inclusion. It’s about saying, ‘I am American just as you are.’”

At the march in Washington, Ahmed said, “one congresswoman came up to me and said she knew immediately that the woman in the picture was me. I was surprised because I assumed people would think it was someone who covered [with a hijab] and I actually don’t.

“One group of girls asked me when I stopped covering, and I told them I never did.”
The photograph that Fairey used for his portrait is a decade old, Ahmed said. It was taken by Ridwan Adhami, a New York-based photographer who is also from Queens. He and Ahmed traveled to the New York stock exchange to compose the shot, anticipating that proximity to the site of the 9/11 terrorist attacks would add symbolic poignancy to their message.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...irey-interview

Linda Sarsour's views of Shariah are heavily critizised by people from the left, who otherwise are supportive of the march. And as Irvine said, chances of Shariah becoming part of the law system in the US (or any other Western country) are nil.

But some people have the ability to support something, even though they don't agree with every single aspect.

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I continue to support the demands of your march but I urge you to chose your posters carefully. It is the message you are sending that is my concern. If you are marching for equality, then I suggest that you stop patronizing those women of Islamic faith and heritage. Not all women of Islamic faith wear the headscarf, nor are all convinced that this is THE symbol of Islam. Choose a symbol that reflects that diversity.
Women’s March: Why Use The Headscarf (Veil) As A Symbol For Islam? | The Huffington Post
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Old 01-28-2017, 11:53 AM   #418
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Originally Posted by TheFox View Post
He's ripping into the New York Times and Washington Post this morning. The guy is deranged and will start a war sooner or later.
He wanted to be president and yet he can't handle the heat and criticism.

Trump supporters, you should be absolutely ashamed right now. Of him, and for voting for him.
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Old 01-28-2017, 12:09 PM   #419
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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
Let's try to reason things out before we jump to White People and ARs
Yes, let's try to reason things out. How about numbers?

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Recent studies reveal that most school shooters are White males, with 97 percent being male and 79 percent White. Over the last three decades, 90 percent of high school or elementary school shootings were the result of White, often upper-middle class, perpetrators.
Mass Shooters Have A Gender and a Race | Political Research Associates

If you don't like the "white male privilege" argument, statista.com presents just numbers.

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Between 1982 and 2016, 48 out of 83 mass shootings were initiated by White shooters.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/...hooter-s-race/

Also, an interesting experiment in how do people react when they get to taste some of their own medicine?

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On this past Sunday, in a bit of tongue-in-cheek hyperbole, I tweeted that if our country truly wanted to ban a demographic in the name of halting mass shootings, it would be best to ban white people. After all, white people, white men to be particular, and not African-Americans or Latinos or immigrants or Muslims are responsible for the overwhelming majority of America's mass shootings.

What I really wanted to see, though, was whether or not the mention of such a ban would irritate the very conservatives whose candidate of choice, Donald Trump, has repeatedly called for such a ban on Muslim immigrants when the truth is that only one Muslim immigrant has ever participated in the 30 deadliest mass shootings in modern American history.
KING: To stop mass shootings, consider banning white men - NY Daily News

The issue is not that terrorist attacks motivated by Jihadi ideology don't occur. The issues are:

1. Will we give up our fundamental principles, that we purported to spread and defend worldwide, because we can't deal with the fact that this world is not absolutely safe?
2. Are we too stupid to look at an issue in its complexity and still see the individual ?
3. Is it reasonable to pursue a horribly misguided and ideologically motivated tactic (wouldn't call it a strategy) that is nothing but fodder for our enemy?

Apparently even Mattis said it wasn't a way to make the US any safer before he gleefully watched the signing of the executive order.
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Old 01-28-2017, 12:21 PM   #420
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Originally Posted by Diemen View Post
A good friend was sponsoring a Syrian family who had spent 12 YEARS in a refugee camp. They were scheduled to arrive at O'Hare on Monday, and in anticipation had sold all their belongings and left the camp, arrived at orientation prior to the flight, and are now being sent back to the camp, with NOTHING.

Can you imagine spending 12 years in a refugee camp, being so excited at the prospect of being able to start again in a country that supposedly believes in freedom of religion and the right to the pursuit of happiness, and then being turned away 3 DAYS before the start of your new life and told you're not welcome anymore?

This is absolutely disgraceful. On Holocaust Remembrance Day, our country literally turned away refugees at our doors. On the same day that Mike Pence, who had previously described a ban on Muslims entering the country as un-American and unconstitutional, had the temerity to proclaim that life was winning again in America, America made a move that will result in the loss of innocent life.

I am livid right now. LIVID.

This is heartbreaking. We should be better than this. I'm embarrassed and ashamed of my country.


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