Trump General Discussion IV: Unpresidented! Very sad!

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DaveC said:
stop calling it fascism because it isn't.

it's trumpism. this is a new beast and we need to treat it like we have no idea what's it's going to do (because we don't) rather than try to recall images of jackboots and swastikas, because that kind of a future is obviously out of the question in america. the country is just way too big and diverse, demographically and geographically, for that. it's so easy for trumpists to laugh that off and cite godwin's law when they get called fascists that it isn't effective in the least. "fascism" is now a uselessly cartoonish label that's easily dismissed and doesn't really apply anyways, despite the similarities. this is trumpism, and it's a wholly new threat to the global order, which is what makes it so scary.
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Ok, it's Trumpism. But like fascism it appears the most suitable time to destroy it is before it's had the chance to burrrow its roots too deep.
So DaveC, as someone who knows a shitload more about this stuff than me (and that's sincerity) wtf do you do? Surely you can't sit back and watch it until it's to entwined with the military, the police, the intelligence agencies and the media to be able to fight it?
Because that's what Trump seems tocbe going for. He's systematically both attacking and praising those things in what appears an attempt to change and control them.
How do you fight it? Marching won't worry him. Those people marching are all idiots as far as he's concerned.

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This is some scary shit.

I really hope the media learns very quickly how to deal with it. If they take too long - like the NYT seems to be - there may be no return.


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The photos of DC today vs yesterday are starkly hilarious. But up against all of this bleakness to truth, it's hard to be as happy as I was a moment ago.
 
gump said:
This is some scary shit.

I really hope the media learns very quickly how to deal with it. If they take too long - like the NYT seems to be - there may be no return.


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Too bad we've spent the last 15 years gutting the mainstream media of relevance and talent. Social media may end up being the downfall of civilization.
 
gump said:
This is some scary shit.

I really hope the media learns very quickly how to deal with it. If they take too long - like the NYT seems to be - there may be no return.


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Click to expand...



That's why he's going to run against the media.
 
the iron horse said:
On January 29th 20016, Mr. Trump came to Washington and stuck it to the out-of-touch closed elite that acts on behalf of its own interests. The corrupt dominant elites (usually the orthodox politicians) and their camp followers (usually the rich and the intellectuals).
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:lmao:

Ooooooookay. Sure. If you say so.

the iron horse said:
They still don’t get it. This is about the people.
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Which is why he had such a piss poor turnout at his inauguration and why there were so many people around the country protesting yesterday, right?

the iron horse said:
He is a populist who understands that many Americans are sick and tired of the clowns in Washington. They want stuff done. They are sick of clowns trying to divide us and talking down to us.
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Bull. Crap.

People re-elected many members of the "do-nothing" Congress they claimed to hate for so many years this past election. Governors who were crap got re-elected, too. If the people were so tired of that, why did so many of those very politicians get re-elected?

Here's the facts: Trump. Does. Not. Give. A. Shit. About. The. Working. Class. People really need to stop with this BS narrative already, because IT'S NOT TRUE. He exploited people's fears of various minority groups, made a bunch of promises he knew full well he was not going to keep, played on people's ignorance, paid lip service to their struggles, and had to rely on Russian hackers to help him win as well.

That's why he won. It had nothing whatsoever to do with "caring about the people". Nothing. Let's stop with that nonsense right now.
 
Holy shit,what was that press conference all about?! This is absolute lunacy,essentially a dictator in the White House! Really terrifying.
 
This administration is going to implode way faster than any of us thought.

Just watch those approval ratings sink, the GOP Congrescritters will turn on him faster than he can grab a pussy. In the end, the only hide that matters in Washington is your own. He has been a CEO whose ass has been kissed for his entire life. He just doesn't get how the real world works.
 
anitram said:
This administration is going to implode way faster than any of us thought.

Just watch those approval ratings sink, the GOP Congrescritters will turn on him faster than he can grab a pussy. In the end, the only hide that matters in Washington is your own. He has been a CEO whose ass has been kissed for his entire life. He just doesn't get how the real world works.
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I really hope this is true. My fear is that he's got such a pyschotic relationship with truth and reason that he'll cross seemingly unthinkable barriers to protect his view of himself. And that could get ugly.

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kiwilad said:
I really hope this is true. My fear is that he's got such a pyschotic relationship with truth and reason that he'll cross seemingly unthinkable barriers to protect his view of himself. And that could get ugly.

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Well of course this part is going to happen. The question is will he be able to get anyone to go along with him on his ride through fantasy land. So far the answer is yes.
 
kiwilad said:
Ok, it's Trumpism. But like fascism it appears the most suitable time to destroy it is before it's had the chance to burrrow its roots too deep.
So DaveC, as someone who knows a shitload more about this stuff than me (and that's sincerity) wtf do you do? Surely you can't sit back and watch it until it's to entwined with the military, the police, the intelligence agencies and the media to be able to fight it?
Because that's what Trump seems tocbe going for. He's systematically both attacking and praising those things in what appears an attempt to change and control them.
How do you fight it? Marching won't worry him. Those people marching are all idiots as far as he's concerned.

Sent from my SM-G920I using U2 Interference mobile app
Click to expand...

i agree that the best time to stop this sort of thing is as early as possible. but i'm not sure what a real solution could be at this point other than cutting the head off the snake one way or another. interpret that however you choose. in a parallel with fascism, if you didn't have hitler in germany, the nazi party might have gained some moderate popularity but it would have been severely unlikely for them to actually gain power without the charismatic and powerful figure to unify the people around. this was the case even more so in italy. (side note: if you want to compare trump to a fascist leader, compare him to the incompetent, bumbling, power-posing doofus mussolini rather than hitler) most likely there would have been an attempt at a communist revolution later in the 30's (if the geopolitical situation remained generally the same), whether or not it would have been successful is up to speculation.

this is why i mentioned yesterday that i was worried about a brutal civil war coming pretty rapidly. i can, without much effort, picture the scenario you mentioned about this becoming so entwined with the military apparatus that they start shooting live rounds at these protests. with the populace as well-armed and polarized as they currently are, it wouldn't take much for the protesters to start bringing some weapons so they could shoot back.
 
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DaveC said:
this is why i mentioned yesterday that i was worried about a brutal civil war coming pretty rapidly. i can, without much effort, picture the scenario you mentioned about this becoming so entwined with the military apparatus that they start shooting live rounds at these protests. with the populace as well-armed and polarized as they currently are, it wouldn't take much for the protesters to start bringing some weapons so they could shoot back.
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Do you think Trump commands the respect of the military enough that they would open fire on protestors, or anyone else for that matter, at his command? I'm not a 20th century expert, but that type of military suppression seems only to happen when the leader came from a military background and so appeared credible in the eyes of the enforcers.
 
DaveC said:
stop calling it fascism because it isn't.

it's trumpism. this is a new beast and we need to treat it like we have no idea what's it's going to do (because we don't) rather than try to recall images of jackboots and swastikas, because that kind of a future is obviously out of the question in america. the country is just way too big and diverse, demographically and geographically, for that. it's so easy for trumpists to laugh that off and cite godwin's law when they get called fascists that it isn't effective in the least. "fascism" is now a uselessly cartoonish label that's easily dismissed and doesn't really apply anyways, despite the similarities. this is trumpism, and it's a wholly new threat to the global order, which is what makes it so scary.
Click to expand...

No, I won't stop. Because it is.
Keep in mind that fascism wasn't just a German phenomenon in the 1920s and 1930s. I'm not saying the USA is looking like Nazi-Germany, though the past months I've seen more images of swastikas in the USA than I cared to see. What you want to call Trumpism looks more like a descendant of the fascism under Mussolini in Italy. You might not (want to) know what it's going to do, but if you want to have a possible example what to expect, 1930s Italy might provide some insight.
 
I just can't imagine this administration lasting more than a few months at the rate it's going. This press conference today is absurd. The majority of people in this country weren't buying it before, how many more people can continue to let themselves be blatantly lied to?
 
TheFox said:
To be fair ,Bannon and Miller wrote the speech.
Click to expand...


Just leaked - Trump's original speech draft:

When I was a young boy
My father took me into the city
To see a marching band
He said, "Son, when you grow up
Would you be the savior of the broken the beaten and the damned?"

He said, "Will you defeat them
Your demons, and all the non-believers the plans that they have made?"

"Because one day I'll leave you
A phantom to lead you in the summer to join the black parade."



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iron yuppie said:
Do you think Trump commands the respect of the military enough that they would open fire on protestors, or anyone else for that matter, at his command? I'm not a 20th century expert, but that type of military suppression seems only to happen when the leader came from a military background and so appeared credible in the eyes of the enforcers.
Click to expand...

definitely i think the majority of the military are good human beings and would disobey that order, in which case either a coup happens or mass desertion.

having seen first hand how insanely bloodthirsty and reactionary a disturbingly large proportion of the canadian military is, and suspecting that the american military is probably similar but in a larger proportion, i can't see how he wouldn't at least have an extremely loyal faction of the military that would be excited to shoot protesters regardless of their cause. and the minute they start shooting back they don't even need to justify it to themselves anymore. then it gets easy.

Popmartijn said:
No, I won't stop. Because it is.
Keep in mind that fascism wasn't just a German phenomenon in the 1920s and 1930s. I'm not saying the USA is looking like Nazi-Germany, though the past months I've seen more images of swastikas in the USA than I cared to see. What you want to call Trumpism looks more like a descendant of the fascism under Mussolini in Italy. You might not (want to) know what it's going to do, but if you want to have a possible example what to expect, 1930s Italy might provide some insight.
Click to expand...

i've been over this a few times in the past as to how it is definitely not "fascism" by any definition of the term. i don't really want to get super into it yet again right now. yes of course there are parallels, and there are definitely more than a few elements borrowed from fascism, but not only is it not fascism, it by definition cannot be fascism, no matter how badly you want to call it that.

if trump and his administration was as equally left-wing as they are right-wing, they certainly wouldn't be communists and we'd be in here laughing at the lunatics calling it that. communism, although it is a wide umbrella, still requires certain conditions to be met for state and government to actually be "communist". fascism is the same.
 
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david said:
Just leaked - Trump's original speech draft:

When I was a young boy
My father took me into the city
To see a marching band
He said, "Son, when you grow up
Would you be the savior of the broken the beaten and the damned?"

He said, "Will you defeat them
Your demons, and all the non-believers the plans that they have made?"

"Because one day I'll leave you
A phantom to lead you in the summer to join the black parade."



Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference
Click to expand...
Followed by:

"We take America from the corrupt! The rich! The oppressors of generations who have kept you down with myths of opportunity, and we give it back to you... the people. America is yours. None shall interfere. Do as you please. Start by storming Guantanamo, and take the law into your own hands! Step forward those who would serve. For an army will be raised. The powerful will be ripped from their decadent nests, and cast out into the cold world that we know and endure. Courts will be convened. Spoils will be enjoyed. Blood will be shed. The police will survive, as they learn to serve true justice. This great country... it will endure. America will survive! MAGA!"
 
right? last time i just walked into the venue at 8:05 and went nearly to the rail by the shaft easily.
 
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