Trump General Discussion IV: Unpresidented! Very sad!

[Moonlit_Angel]

Don't worry, his supporters will say they never believed this either. It was a means to start the conversation!!!!

Yep. Hillary's a lying liar who lies when she changes her mind on something, but Trump changing his mind is no biggie, he didn't really mean it, he was just kidding/exaggerating/etc.

I'm all for smart immigration and border enforcement. But a wall just screams lazy and stupid

Exactly. People will find ways around, over, or under the wall. And it won't solve any of the other issues related to immigration.

Re: kiwilad's post, I'm more than happy to engage with Trump supporters if they're willing to hear me out. I have seen some people, though, that I really don't think will ever listen to facts or reason.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

I can't wait for when Trump announces he is going to build the wall himself. Using his own hands, with nobody else to help him. That would make for a good reality TV show.

 

[Kieran McConville]

The 'wall' will never be built. It would be a scheme on a par with the Great Wall of China, and America doesn't do that kind of work anymore.

 

[Salome]

I obviously think they are wrong. I think the Trump voters on here are wrong. But the thing is they think I'm wrong. And I need to figure out, 1 - if, in aspects, they are right and I am wrong and, 2 - how do I speak my truth to these people in an effective way that actually changes their mind.
Cause I just can't believe 50 million americans wanted the reality of a Trump presidency.

I agree with you on an intellectual level that the only way to move forward is by truly understanding what has moved people to vote for Trump, but I don't think better understanding will lead to any solutions.
The harsh reality seems to be that the majority Trump vote lacks an intellectual basis. It's post-fact and emotion based. There is no intellectual discussion to be had.
Actually, people attempting an intellectual discussion are considered elitist and out of touch.

This is not just a USA / Trump thing, btw.
The cocktail of false entitlement, racism and a preference to ignore facts is running rampant globally.
I do believe 50 millions Americans want the reality of a Trump presidency as this is apparently in line with the state mankind is in.

 

[kiwilad]

But if you're right, I mean really, that's the sort of climate that leads to catastrophe. And I'm a pretty rational chap but that's what's scaring me.

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[Salome]

Yes, it is scary.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Trump is a billion... dollars in debt.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

omfg. the is strong with these people.



i have no sympathy. none. not anymore.

Where does wanting black people to pull up their pants, know their place and help themselves fall on the Orgeporgie Scale of Racism?

 

[BVS]

Where does wanting black people to pull up their pants, know their place and help themselves fall on the Orgeporgie Scale of Racism?

It doesn't matter, are they offending the working class white men?

I find it hilarious that the party that use to embrace John Wayne machismo and mockingly use buzzwords like "safeplace" are now the ones always playing victim, are offended by a channel no one watches anymore, and elected a thin skinned man-child.


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[Irvine511]

Where does wanting black people to pull up their pants, know their place and help themselves fall on the Orgeporgie Scale of Racism?

Good idea. We'll need another white person to tell us how racist this actually is so they can explain to the black people whether or not they're being discriminated against on the basis of race.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Good idea. We'll need another white person to tell us how racist this actually is so they can explain to the black people whether or not they're being discriminated against on the basis of race.

Good news, guys.

Using the scale nobody rated higher than a 4 (no seriously, I really rated them based on the scale)... so none of those people are racist!

America is great again!

 

[anitram]

And I need to figure out, 1 - if, in aspects, they are right and I am wrong and, 2 - how do I speak my truth to these people in an effective way that actually changes their mind.

You cannot speak your truth or do anything else to change their mind. I think this is the great naivete of some of the left, that if we just explained better, they'd be on board. Sorry, no.

Most of them will come around and disavow Trump much the same way they do W Bush. You try to find a Republican who is proud to admit he was a Bush voter and thinks of his 8-years in office as a positive thing. Crickets. These are the exact same people who until the day that Obama was elected praised Bush and trashed the opposition. Then they became more concerned with the black radical in office. The same will happen with Trump - his supporters are currently pumped up due to their victory, many of them have a serious and pathological hatred of Hillary Clinton that spans decades so they are on cloud nine. But as we know, time waits for no man, and when they slowly start to figure out that their jobs aren't coming back, their tax dollars are paying for a wall and ain't no Mexico reimbursing them, the millionaires playing with their toys in the stock market are getting off like bandits, the Supreme Court still hasn't outlawed abortion, and young black yoots are still wearing saggy pants, well the chickens will come home to roost.

Trump's entire platform is not just a lie, but an impossible lie. He factually cannot have a successful presidency AND at the same time deliver on his promises. You can't at the same time have a booming economy and 40% tariffs on imports. Just one example of many. It is even possible, though highly unlikely, that he could be a successful President (lol) who progresses the country forward but to do so, he will have to abandon all his talking points. So he's going to fail here, there or in both places. It's really just a matter of time.

In short, this whole "how do I talk to them" is really a huge waste of time. They'll figure it out in their own time, when they see it with their own eyes. Anything coming from you is like poison to them.

 

[the iron horse]

Can we get a reasonable title for this thread like we have had in the past?

Trump General Discussion 4, something like that?


and a reminder like the last thread, is always a good idea

I agree.

Since this thread is for a general discussion of the soon to be President Trump as the President Obama threads were, it does not seem appropriate to have the thread title labeled with an opinion.

 

[BVS]

I agree.

Since this thread is for a general discussion of the soon to be President Trump as the President Obama threads were, it does not seem appropriate to have the thread title labeled with an opinion.

You mean like Racism - Glorified Hyperbole

Can we please get off the hypocrisy high horses?

Thank you.




It wasn't even an 'opinion' :facepalm:

 

[Oregoropa]

It doesn't matter, are they offending the working class white men?

I find it hilarious that the party that use to embrace John Wayne machismo and mockingly use buzzwords like "safeplace" are now the ones always playing victim, are offended by a channel no one watches anymore, and elected a thin skinned man-child.


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In the context of our discussion I was challenged to address what the GOP could do better in terms of Racism, Sexism, Homophobia. Acting as defense attorney I argued that the prevailing viewpoint within FYM that the GOP is fueled by the worst elements historic ugliness (Nazism, KKK) is overblown.

Let's keep this in context, that I know my audience and you know me to defend unpopular positions in a thoughtful manner. I.E. The meaning of an article about the Confederate Flag. If I were presenting the argument to a different jury I may start out with a greater sense of Empathy, acknowledging the challenges faced by those who are victims of racism. Knowing I had a lot of material to cover I just jumped right into my argument.

My thoughts were overdue. For months I have been grouped in with racists, etc. in comments by association with my choice in candidate. I built up an immunity to it. The Trump movement I was a part of included many diverse voices that I followed on Social Media. Despite insensitive statements by Trump himself, his campaign had one of the most free thinking diverse followings of any GOP candidate. This is the movement That I see and try to present to the forum as a ambassador. To that point I've only been mocked when trying to point this out to FYM in the past.

Presenting the MTV video was an experiment on my part. It was panned on social media even by liberals as a tone deaf hot mess. Some saying the snarkiness of the video is in a reflection of the attitude that helped get Trump elected. Many people became 'woke' that they did not want to be talked down to by liberals. The fact that everybody sees nothing wrong with the video shows how big of a worldview gap we may have.

On an analytical side, the Democrats are not listening to their moderates like Tim Ryan of Ohio. Instead liberal stalwarts like Schumer and Pelosi stand at a podium with a "Make America Sick Again" poster to fight the repeal of Obamacare. The headwinds are in the face of the hyper-liberal Obama agenda and they don't realize the bad optics are pushing the party backwards. Both in the congressional battlefield and the court of public opinion.

Another C-List celebrity video came out urging congress to stump Trump at every turn. It's even groan-inducing even on the left. Richard Schiff and Jeffrey Wright are not going to prevent anything. At a certain point the celeb angle is tiresome. They are real digging in deep right now.

Assuming Trump does not implode, what steps should the Democrat party take get back many of the voters that have left the party before the 2018 midterms?


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[anitram]

Assuming Trump does not implode, what steps should the Democrat party take get back many of the voters that have left the party before the 2018 midterms?

You are not a stupid person so you know that it is impossible for the Democrats to really achieve much in 2018 due to gerrymandering and which seats are up for grabs. It is what it is. They are better off concentrating on 2020, and frankly a party looking for its soul or whatever the current catchphrase is, needs a lot more time than a year (because at this time next year we'll already all be heavily discussing the midterms).

You make fun of Schumer with the Make America Sick Again stuff...well obstinate obstructionism worked for the Republicans for 8 years. Why on earth should the Democrats be any different? They oppose Trump on every level, they should not work with the Republican Congress on a single thing. The voters clearly do not punish obstruction. And frankly you all need to own each and every single thing Trump and the GOP do. No bail outs from the Dems. If you are so proud of your President and Party, then go out and own all the bills, all the nominees, all the new laws, all the appointments, all the international incidents. You can then proudly run in 2020 on that platform and the Democrats can run on "we opposed them on everything." Let the voters decide - it will be a pretty simple and binary choice at that point. I have a feeling which way the pendulum will swing.

 

[BVS]

My thoughts were overdue. For months I have been grouped in with racists, etc. in comments by association with my choice in candidate. I built up an immunity to it. The Trump movement I was a part of included many diverse voices that I followed on Social Media. Despite insensitive statements by Trump himself, his campaign had one of the most free thinking diverse followings of any GOP candidate. This is the movement That I see and try to present to the forum as a ambassador. To that point I've only been mocked when trying to point this out to FYM in the past.

You're mocked when you say things like his followers are free thinking.

Presenting the MTV video was an experiment on my part. It was panned on social media even by liberals as a tone deaf hot mess. Some saying the snarkiness of the video is in a reflection of the attitude that helped get Trump elected. Many people became 'woke' that they did not want to be talked down to by liberals. The fact that everybody sees nothing wrong with the video shows how big of a worldview gap we may have.

You took the video to be sincere, we didn't. That is the biggest gap, the second biggest gap is that you are more concerned about the reaction of "working class white male" than you are the issues behind the video.

On an analytical side, the Democrats are not listening to their moderates like Tim Ryan of Ohio. The headwinds are in the face of the hyper-liberal Obama agenda and they don't realize the bad optics are pushing the party backwards. Both in the congressional battlefield and the court of public opinion.

How are they not listening?

Where do you get the idea that the headwinds are in the face of Obama's agenda? And where do you get the idea that it's 'hyper-liberal'? Both of those are absolutely insane and once again can only be obtained by isolating yourself. The marginal electoral college win does not indicate any shift of headwinds. And story after story has been shown that even Trump supporters are scared of losing their healthcare now. If anything Republicans are in an uphill battle with this cause.

Hyper-liberal only to the Breitbart world was he hyper-liberal.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

WASHINGTON — President-elect Donald J. Trump said in an interview Friday morning that the storm surrounding Russian hacking during the presidential campaign is a political witch hunt being carried out by his adversaries, who he said were embarrassed by their loss to him in the election last year.

A guy with as much baggage as Trump making enemies with the intelligence sector and the press seems like a good strategy for him.

I wonder who President Pence will choose as his vice president.

 

[anitram]

Witch hunt headed by Main Witch John McCain.

 

[Irvine511]

A guy with as much baggage as Trump making enemies with the intelligence sector and the press seems like a good strategy for him.

I wonder who President Pence will choose as his vice president.

I can't wait for another intelligence brief to be ignored and another 3,000 people to be crushed and burned to death.

 

[BEAL]

Does he even last a year in the office? Maybe I brought this up in the other thread, but I'm not even talking about impeachment.

He's not a spring chicken. He's not a model of health. Both Dubya and Obama were very active presidents. Trump golfs, but can't imagine he walks the courses. What other exercises does he do?

The guys before him had experience, and you could argue early on that maybe they were in over their heads at first. This is the highest, most stressful position on the planet.

While it appears he'll delegate nearly everything but rallies to Pence and the rest of the staff, I don't know if Trump's ego can take the beating that Presidents do.

Will he be able to handle the stress and criticisms? The latter, no likely.

 

[corianderstem]

I'm still waiting for his press conference about his business/conflicts of interest, which got postponed ages ago. Especially now that we've learned a good chunk of his debt is held by Wall Street.

Oh, the irony of people wondering why Hilary never had press conferences during the election. We're waaaaaaaiting, Mr. Trump.

 

[BEAL]

Next week for sure!!! !!! I can't take the suspense any longer!

 

[BVS]

The world was glooming. And then we had our first mass shooting of 2017. Thanks Donald.


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[Hewson]

. What other exercises does he do?

.

Bedroom aerobics. The best.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

One billion dollars in debt

Although it might be a false report, as it was reported in that known lefty rag The Wall Street Journal.

 

[kiwilad]

Anitram I suspect you're right. Sadly, alot of those people who will now never listen to me weren't Trump, or even GOP people a year ago. Or 6 months ago. They got convinced.
And that's where I'm at. How do we do better as a society to make sure big chunks of us aren't going to fall for impossible lies?
Or is it really too far gone for some countries, and separate states are inevitable?

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[Headache in a Suitcase]

A report released Friday by the US intelligence community found that Russia tried to influence the outcome of the election by boosting President-elect Donald Trump and harming Hillary Clinton.

"We assess Russian President Vladimir Putin ordered an influence campaign in 2016 aimed at the US presidential election. Russia's goals were to undermine public faith in the US democratic process, denigrate Secretary Clinton, and harm her electability and potential presidency. We further assess Putin and the Russian Government developed a clear preference for President-elect Trump," the report said.

.

 

[kiwilad]

But Headache, have a look at the Breitbart comments section. Russia and Putin are now objects of American aspiration.

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[Headache in a Suitcase]

GOP Twitter is a flutter with this link...

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...photo-ft-lauderdale-shooter-esteban-santiago/


... this is what fake news does. I've been watching CNN since the news broke. They haven't once shown this picture, let alone a doctored one.

But for these people retweeting this left and right, it's the truth.

We are truly living in the Black Mirror world.