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Old 01-13-2017, 11:42 AM   #341
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one could say that are, in fact, the real cucks.

this will go down as The Great Cucking
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Old 01-13-2017, 11:50 AM   #342
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That's a philosophically and economically defensible viewpoint, even if a lot of people (especially on this board) would disagree with it.
I'd be very curious to hear how it's "philosophically defensible" in a society of this wealth.
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Old 01-13-2017, 11:51 AM   #343
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Especially when the other priority in this Republican Congress is additional tax cuts that will mostly benefit the wealthy.
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Old 01-13-2017, 11:55 AM   #344
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and, perhaps ironically, and perhaps deservedly, these are the people who are going to get fucked by his policies.
Do you really believe that people who got swept up in his rhetoric should be made to suffer as a result? This is kind of the equivalent of saying someone who got caught in a predatory mortgage deserves to be homeless.
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Old 01-13-2017, 12:32 PM   #345
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I don't know if they should suffer, that's a philosophical argument for another day, but I will most certainly hold each and every one of them responsible for everything that is done in the next 8 years. The good, the bad, and the ugly. They own it ALL.
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Old 01-13-2017, 12:35 PM   #346
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You know the former MI6 agent and current private security investigator who wrote the Trump Dossier?

You know, the real guy who wrote it and not some dopes on 4chan, who day they wrote it so that other dopes will fall for it?

Turns out he's the same guy who gave all that information to the FBI on Drop Blatter and brought down FIFA. So he's highly credible, and his entire professional reputation would be shot if he reported falsehoods.

So hey, congrats to the Christian right for voting in a guy who hires hookers to do golden showers.

Jesus would be proud. John the Baptist was a big water sports fan.
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Old 01-13-2017, 12:37 PM   #347
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I don't personally wish ill will on anyone, but accountability should be held by those who voted for this man, and for those who didn't cast a vote at all.

None of the policies that have been floated about will help "middle america". None. The tax cuts favor the top, automation will continue to kill jobs in all facets of life (amazon may put my job in jeopardy soon enough), and healthcare being repealed without any form of a plan helps no one.

Clinton wasn't going to be a savior, but I saw her as a continuation of Obama, and other than the right wing echo chamber, most of us can agree the last eight years has been pretty good to a majority of americans.

not sure we can say that in another four
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Old 01-13-2017, 12:56 PM   #348
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I'd also argue that being conned by a vile candidate who was very openly racist and xenophobic is quite different than being conned by a bank that tricked you into accepting a financial instrument that was not necessarily easy to understand. The latter case deserves more compassion than the former, in my opinion. That doesn't mean I wish anyone who will lose health care to suffer, not at all. But absolving them of any responsibility doesn't help, either.
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Old 01-13-2017, 01:29 PM   #349
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Trump General Discussion IV: Unpresidented! Very sad!

Quote:
Originally Posted by iron yuppie View Post
Do you really believe that people who got swept up in his rhetoric should be made to suffer as a result? This is kind of the equivalent of saying someone who got caught in a predatory mortgage deserves to be homeless.


I think of it more as tough love. I'm out of sympathy for the so-called white working class. I'll stand with immigrants and inner-city black folks and creative class yuppies (all my neighbors!) any day of the week and twice on Sundays, and extend to WCWs exactly the same sympathy and compassion they've extended to anyone different from them. Which is to say very little.
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Old 01-13-2017, 04:46 PM   #350
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The more I read about the dismantling of the healthcare system, the angrier I get. I'm not wishing for anyone to lose their health insurance, either, but anyone who voted for Trump or any of the other Republicans who made a big fuss of getting rid of Obamacare has zero room to complain when they do lose whatever health insurance they have thanks to them. Thanks for screwing everyone over, guys. Really appreciate it.

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Why are the Trump supporters who were so angry about Clinton's Goldman Sachs connections so quiet about Trump's six Goldman appointees?

Why are the Trump supporters who were so angry about Clinton's conflicts of interests silent on Trump's, especially since there are so many more?

Because all they care about is Fuck You.
It is truly amazing how easily they're able to disregard any of the criticism and scandal surrounding Trump. They literally do not see the obvious hypocrisy and BS. It's all just evil liberals and the media being "delusional" or some such nonsense to them.

I honestly do not know what, if anything, it would take to finally make them wake the fuck up and pay attention. I really don't.
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Old 01-13-2017, 04:58 PM   #351
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Seriously dude you still haven't answered my question, how the hell can you defend someone like trump? Defending someone like trump is like defending a pedophile! I just don't understand how you or anyone can defend him after all the bullshit he has said and done? How??? I am truly buffled! What goes on in your mind to make you honestly believe this guys will be any good? But then again people fell for hitler (and who the hell knows why). I guess it's just human nature!
Ahhhh . . . the Hitler card. So original.

I have been defending and promoting Trump for about 19 months on the board. I'll do a quick summation.

As a conservative Republican I was initially a Cruz backer, until Trump announced. Cruz was disliked by the entire beltway establishment . . . I found that quite endearing.

I was looking for a strong leader that would have the ability to pinch off the cronyist circulatory system of money, power, and influence that dominates our federal government.

In walks Trump. As an outsider, he was the ideal messenger to accomplish this goal. He even participated in the system of New York graft having to donate to HRC and Schumer to further his interests. He was straight up about that. Just like the old commercial "Not only am I the President of Hair Club for men, I'm also a client"

On the strategy of having a Republican that could win the general I was witness to the great shift or blue collar Dems gravitating to Trump. I was in ground zero in the Wilkes-Barre, Scranton metro of Pennsylvania where New York attitude, Philly brash talk, meets Middle America. The enthusiasm for Trump indicated to me that he could be a winner in the General. This metro area was one of the big flips of the election and gave the win to Trump.

When it comes to the General I had to choose between him and Hillary. I went with him because of his leadership abilities, economic vision, and principles.

- Originalist judges in the mold of Scalia
- Stronger military for the purpose of deterrence. IE Peace through Strength
- Cutting burdensome regulations on business
- Dropping the corporate tax rate
- Repealing the ACA
- Dropping taxes across the board
- Term limits
- Increased energy production
- Enforcing existing immigration law
- Increased border security
- Local control of education

His behavior on the surface may seem abhorrent to you, and you may find yourself on the opposite end of the spectrum, but in the end we are choosing the leader of the executive branch of the government. I don't mind if he is at times abrasive and crude. LBJ was a filthy dirty dog and yet got the civil rights agenda through. Trump has the ability to right the economic ship of state, Clinton offered nothing except managing America's decline. During the debates all I heard from her about job creation was "I want to invest in workers and the jobs of the future". This basically code for I will use worker's tax money, and through government agencies come up with a plan to create jobs that have no real use in the private sector. Basically Solyndra garbage.

Hillary is the poster-child of the cronyist beltway mentality. (Bear in mind the Clinton Foundation is still under investigation by the FBI). Maybe she has been there so long she has known how to play the "Game". The air of impropriety hung over her like a cloud. She was disconnected from the voters she needed the most. Was there anything new or innovative she was offering? It was a change election and she was the status quo. If you are a progressive it was common sense that Hillary was the obvious choice, how could anybody see otherwise. . . . . And she almost got it. A couple tight state races decided it. But in the Midwest many states saw a 14 point swing from blue to red.


TL;DR - I'm conservative. I like Trump for his economic-security policy. I don't mind his potty mouth. Hillary sucks.
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Old 01-13-2017, 05:07 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
Ahhhh . . . the Hitler card. So original.

I have been defending and promoting Trump for about 19 months on the board. I'll do a quick summation.

As a conservative Republican I was initially a Cruz backer, until Trump announced. Cruz was disliked by the entire beltway establishment . . . I found that quite endearing.

I was looking for a strong leader that would have the ability to pinch off the cronyist circulatory system of money, power, and influence that dominates our federal government.

In walks Trump. As an outsider, he was the ideal messenger to accomplish this goal. He even participated in the system of New York graft having to donate to HRC and Schumer to further his interests. He was straight up about that. Just like the old commercial "Not only am I the President of Hair Club for men, I'm also a client"

On the strategy of having a Republican that could win the general I was witness to the great shift or blue collar Dems gravitating to Trump. I was in ground zero in the Wilkes-Barre, Scranton metro of Pennsylvania where New York attitude, Philly brash talk, meets Middle America. The enthusiasm for Trump indicated to me that he could be a winner in the General. This metro area was one of the big flips of the election and gave the win to Trump.

When it comes to the General I had to choose between him and Hillary. I went with him because of his leadership abilities, economic vision, and principles.

- Originalist judges in the mold of Scalia
- Stronger military for the purpose of deterrence. IE Peace through Strength
- Cutting burdensome regulations on business
- Dropping the corporate tax rate
- Repealing the ACA
- Dropping taxes across the board
- Term limits
- Increased energy production
- Enforcing existing immigration law
- Increased border security
- Local control of education

His behavior on the surface may seem abhorrent to you, and you may find yourself on the opposite end of the spectrum, but in the end we are choosing the leader of the executive branch of the government. I don't mind if he is at times abrasive and crude. LBJ was a filthy dirty dog and yet got the civil rights agenda through. Trump has the ability to right the economic ship of state, Clinton offered nothing except managing America's decline. During the debates all I heard from her about job creation was "I want to invest in workers and the jobs of the future". This basically code for I will use worker's tax money, and through government agencies come up with a plan to create jobs that have no real use in the private sector. Basically Solyndra garbage.

Hillary is the poster-child of the cronyist beltway mentality. (Bear in mind the Clinton Foundation is still under investigation by the FBI). Maybe she has been there so long she has known how to play the "Game". The air of impropriety hung over her like a cloud. She was disconnected from the voters she needed the most. Was there anything new or innovative she was offering? It was a change election and she was the status quo. If you are a progressive it was common sense that Hillary was the obvious choice, how could anybody see otherwise. . . . . And she almost got it. A couple tight state races decided it. But in the Midwest many states saw a 14 point swing from blue to red.


TL;DR - I'm conservative. I like Trump for his economic-security policy. I don't mind his potty mouth. Hillary sucks.
Where do you even begin with this nonsense?!
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Old 01-13-2017, 05:10 PM   #353
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Where do you even begin with this nonsense?!
He won.
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Old 01-13-2017, 05:12 PM   #354
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He won.
Yeah, I'm just thankful I'm not an American. Good luck to you all.
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Old 01-13-2017, 05:33 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
He won.

Because people got conned.

Plain and simple.

I couldn't get through your diatribe, I got through a few sentences and none were true. None.


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Old 01-13-2017, 05:35 PM   #356
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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
Cruz was disliked by the entire beltway establishment . . . I found that quite endearing.
Yeah...there's a lot of valid reasons for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
I was looking for a strong leader that would have the ability to pinch off the cronyist circulatory system of money, power, and influence that dominates our federal government.

In walks Trump. As an outsider, he was the ideal messenger to accomplish this goal.
And as we're so plainly seeing now, you are very wrong on that.

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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
- Originalist judges in the mold of Scalia
We really, really do not need more judges like Scalia.

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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
- Stronger military for the purpose of deterrence. IE Peace through Strength
Did you see how disrespectful Trump was towards the Khan family? Remember that whole mess?

Also, you're entrusting our military in the hands of a guy who goes on three am Twitter rants because somebody was "mean" to him. A guy who just recently let go of the people in charge of our nuclear weapons.

But yeah. He's totally gonna keep us safe.

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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
- Repealing the ACA
Pray tell, what is your plan to replace the ACA, then? I'm about to lose the only insurance I have thanks to your party. Do you honestly believe Trump and the Republicans will come up with anything halfway decent in response, and quickly at that? Or am I just shit out of luck?

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His behavior on the surface may seem abhorrent to you
No, it IS abhorrent. Bragging about grabbing women in the genitals without consent and has treated women like shit in so many other ways, who insulted a military family, who's called immigrants rapists, who throws tantrums on Twitter, and who dismisses intelligence briefings, to name but a few things, is a sign of a pretty shitty person to me. And it kind of disturbs me that none of this seems to bother you much, if at all.

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Originally Posted by Oregoropa View Post
I don't mind if he is at times abrasive and crude. LBJ was a filthy dirty dog and yet got the civil rights agenda through.
Again, there is a difference between "abrasive" and being an asshole.

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Clinton offered nothing except managing America's decline.
And yet she won the popular vote.

Also, given all the scandal currently surrounding Trump, I would seriously quit getting on my high horse about Hillary if I were you.

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He won.
The electoral vote, yes. And he had to bring in his Russian buddies to help him win.

But please, do go on believing that he won this fair and square and isn't the most unpopular president-elect in quite some time. If he gets impeached down the line, which is a distinct possibility the longer this Russian hacking business plays out, I'll just be sitting here saying, "I told you so."
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Old 01-13-2017, 05:44 PM   #357
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He won.


not really, though, right? i mean, he'll be president because of a flaw in our system that privileges rural votes, but 80,000 people spread over three states compared to a 3,000,000 margin in the popular vote, plus the Kremlin and the FBI and a media that couldn't give him enough coverage because ratings? and now with an approval rating 20-ish points lower than our outgoing president and 40-ish points lower than your typical PEOTUS? that doesn't sound at all like the country wants what's happening.

i do take your points as reasons to vote for him -- i won't debate those points, right now, but i do see them as actual issues that you've taken a stance on and decided that Trump more closely aligned with your views. that's coherent to me.

i take issue with this:

Quote:
I was looking for a strong leader that would have the ability to pinch off the cronyist circulatory system of money, power, and influence that dominates our federal government.
i think you're too cynical by half, and too credulous when it comes to Trump by half, and this is where i think you've been conned.

i also take issue with characterizing sexual assault and degradation of women and racist language as having a "potty mouth."
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Old 01-13-2017, 06:27 PM   #358
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Also, you're entrusting our military in the hands of a guy who goes on three am Twitter rants because somebody was "mean" to him. A guy who just recently let go of the people in charge of our nuclear weapons.

But yeah. He's totally gonna keep us safe.
I don't remember Trump pulling the strings behind an executive branch war against Libya without any kind of Congressional approval.

At least Dubya had the courtesy to ask for a terrible mistake. Proof positive that our intelligence agencies can be politicized.

The Hillary-Obama-Kerry record of Middle East meddling has brought us closer to war with Russia than any time since the Cuban Missile Crisis. Obama is funneling weapons to Rebel groups via Turkey into Syria being used to fire on Russian warplanes. Syria is a tinderbox akin to the 1914 Balkans. Obama has moved NATO troops closer to the Russian border in the Baltic states. Troops closer to Moscow than any time since 1941.

How is taking sides in the internal struggle of Syria in the best interest of the United States?

I support Trump's idea of setting up a safe zone for legitimate war refugees in the Northwest part of the country. Where there can be vetted and safely placed into host countries instead of a disorganized stream of human trafficking into Europe.

ISIS is a pariah to the entire world, except Iran and the elements in the Gulf States. Trump has vowed to hammer them as they have essentially declared war on the West already.

Reagan ramped up our military strength, nuclear, hypothetical "Star Wars" missile defense to the point where we bankrupted the USSR. Yes, we funded the Mujahadeen in the Graveyard of Empires. On the whole, the build-up froze out any direct USA-Soviet military confrontation. You might argue Grenada and Central America was the only proxy war between us. Strength was a Deterrence. The Khan family is irrelevant to the Realpolitik we find ourselves in right now.

Based upon her track record Hillary is much more in the mold of the NEOCON tradition of Dick Cheney. Many of those establishment forces gravitated to her during the election.

Behind the curtain, pro-war forces are not backing Trump. He wants to decimate ISIS, build up our Navy as a check against China in the South Pacific Sea. But does not want to go on nation building adventurism of the past 20 years.
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Old 01-13-2017, 06:30 PM   #359
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You know the former MI6 agent and current private security investigator who wrote the Trump Dossier?

You know, the real guy who wrote it and not some dopes on 4chan, who day they wrote it so that other dopes will fall for it?

Turns out he's the same guy who gave all that information to the FBI on Drop Blatter and brought down FIFA. So he's highly credible, and his entire professional reputation would be shot if he reported falsehoods.

So hey, congrats to the Christian right for voting in a guy who hires hookers to do golden showers.

Jesus would be proud. John the Baptist was a big water sports fan.
You are the same guy that was pushing the "Trump repeatedly raped a 13 year old in the 90s" crap story. This story is absurd and something only feeble-minded or people blinded by Trump hatred bias would fall for. That explains the whole CNN network.
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Old 01-13-2017, 06:53 PM   #360
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You are the same guy that was pushing the "Trump repeatedly raped a 13 year old in the 90s" crap story. This story is absurd and something only feeble-minded or people blinded by Trump hatred bias would fall for. That explains the whole CNN network.
Same guy that took down FIFA.

Same guy.
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