Oregoropa
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Hahaha. You really are a funny guy.
The 2nd part of the trilogy will come sometime this week when I get in front of my work keyboard post-Rose Bowl.
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Trump General Discussion III
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Hahaha. You really are a funny guy.
The 2nd part of the trilogy will come sometime this week when I get in front of my work keyboard post-Rose Bowl.
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The majority of Americans? The world?
Truest statement you've ever made... A fool is, indeed, in charge.
The end of September started the worst stretch of life I've gone thru to this point.
It def doesn't help to see someone like Trump taking over. I suppose that can color the goggles of perception that all is lost and done for
But seriously, it does seem like things are fucked. To be more positive I tell myself we survived Dubya, but he's brilliant compared to Trump
And the irony is my life should get BETTER under him. Less taxes, potentially less foreign workers competing for IT jobs (tho they've never hindered me before), but I still feel bad
Resolutions I find silly but decided 30 mins a day of meditation. The long term goal is to become less stressed over what I cannot control.
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It def doesn't help to see someone like Trump taking over. I suppose that can color the goggles of perception that all is lost and done for
But seriously, it does seem like things are fucked. To be more positive I tell myself we survived Dubya, but he's brilliant compared to Trump
And the irony is my life should get BETTER under him. Less taxes, potentially less foreign workers competing for IT jobs (tho they've never hindered me before), but I still feel bad
Resolutions I find silly but decided 30 mins a day of meditation. The long term goal is to become less stressed over what I cannot control.
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Dfit00
War Child
Why do you think your life should get better under him?
In reality, your life should get better based on your own merits and actions, your own work towards your goals and not because a guy takes over a presidential term.
On a sidenote, were these foreign workers from India?
I agree on a philosophical level to some extent, but the reality is for me too the tax cuts will result in noticeably more take-home pay, and it's hard to not call that "life getting better" in some real sense.
Of course, if Trump does something monumentally stupid like scrap NAFTA or start a trade war with China, that will be bad for me, as my industry ebbs and flows with the business cycle. Even if a recession is semi-likely soon anyway, I'll take the higher taxes over the risk of self-created calamity.
And that's ignoring the fact that Trump is an absolute lunatic, and that the combination of normal GOP shrink-the-government talk with Trump's borderline-encouragement of racism will hurt a lot of people who are not in as lucky a place as I am in life.
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Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
When I looked at the Trump tax plan, it seemed that the only people going to benefit were those making like $400k a year and up. Right now they are taxed at progressively higher rates, but under Trump if you make $800k a year you'll have taxes as if you were making $250k a year.
Which seems totally fair.
Which seems totally fair.
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
And so we continue...
To quote Jon Stewart when he responded to Sean Hannity using this term to describe Trump, "that's not a thing". There is nothing about him that says "blue-collar". He wouldn't know how to live the sort of life people like my family lived whatsoever.
Also, as others have noted, "his crowd" calls him that. Yeah. No bias there.
Yes, a loan of, what was it, a million dollars? Yep. Totally blue-collar. Every hard-working blue-collar parent totally hands their child a million dollar loan when they're starting out on their own, right?
I have also heard stories of him scamming employees out of pay, families being pushed out of their homes so that one of his multiple towers can be built ('cause he really needs more of those, right?), and then there's also the accusations of him harassing women (and possibly worse) and treating his wives like shit.
If he has shown any positive behavior, it seems to be when he's in public and needs to put on a good show. Which is why it's really funny that his supporters kept claiming one of the reasons he was worth supporting was because he "didn't act like a politician". He's been engaging in that very behavior for years. He's whomever he needs to be in any given situation. You can shake people's hands all you want, it doesn't make you automatically "relatable" to the average Joe.
None of which are things your average citizen gets to do with their finances.
If that is true, those are indeed good things. But it's hard to square the idea of those acts of generosity coming from the same man who thinks it's okay to judge women based on a scale of 1 to 10, or who's been accused of, again, treating women like shit (and reading his Twitter feed alone should give you a pretty good idea of how he views them). It's hard to reconcile those good acts as coming from the same man who thinks it's okay to set up a registry targeting Muslims, or who treats his employees like shit, or who doesn't care about families losing their homes.
I wouldn't, 'cause I don't give a shit who the president plays golf with. Again, though, a man golfing with celebrities doesn't exactly scream "See, regular middle America folks, I'm just like you!"
I like many of those things about him, too (I don't care a whit about sports, but that's neither here nor there...). But I don't get why voters care so much about those particular aspects when it comes to deciding who to vote for, instead of just seeing them as neat bonuses. Yes, I want my president to relate to people...but I don't expect that relatability to come in the form of "Hey, he likes the same shows/music/sports teams I like!" or "He seems like someone I could have a beer with!" or whatever. Nice if that happens, sure, it's cool, but why does that matter?
Relatability, to me, comes in terms of understanding the struggles Americans are going through. And Obama grew up with a single mother. He watched her work hard to keep a roof over her family's head and see to it her son could get a good education. He is the very embodiment of the "American Dream" people like to harp on about.
Trump never had to work the way your average blue-collar worker did, or the way Obama did. He was born into wealth, he got things handed to him from his dad, and he has people do all the work for him. That is not something I can relate to, and I don't get how anyone in my economic bracket can relate to it.
Frankly, I don't think Trump's lifestyle is one people relate to so much as it's the kind they wish they had. And Trump, and the Republican Party in general, have led them to believe that they too can have this life if they make just the right amount of money to do so...
...all while they keep pushing economic policies that will hurt those very voters more than it will help them, and keep them from achieving that dream life.
He wasn't wrong about the "guns and religion" thing, though. Every time people even TRY and put forth any attempts at gun control, no matter how mild, we immediately hear people being all, "SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS! You can't take my guns away!"
And anytime people express any criticism of Christianity, or try and keep the separation of church and state, the religious conservatives throw a fit and talk about the "war on Christian family values".
Maybe every clinger has their variety of reasons why they do so, but what Obama said about them clinging, period, was a stone cold fact. And I'll remind you that I live in an area of the country where religion and guns are very important to a lot of people.
As for him being aloof...well, I'm a very quiet person offline. I hang back in conversations, I only really get more talkative when I feel comfortable around someone. I've heard about how people assume that quiet people are automatically "snobby" because they're not chatting up a storm when surrounded by other people, or because they might want some alone time now and again. Is that true, or is it just that some people's personalities affect the way they react in certain situations, or interact with people. There's been studies and discussion about how a lot of people don't seem to really understand the mindset of people who are more quiet/introverted/reserved/etc., and I sense that's part of the issue here.
Obama being "aloof" doesn't mean he's elitist. It just means he has a different way of communicating with people. And "aloof" can mean different things to different people, too. There's plenty of moments when he's appeared fairly social, too, and like you yourself said, he seems like a guy one can kick back and have a beer with, so it seems like he has some connection to people, which would kinda negate the "elitist" description, would it not?
I'll refer you to the others' explanations here.
...every president has used the word "I" in speeches and talked about themselves at some point in their career, though? My goodness, if that's the metric people are using to claim someone's elitist, then we're all elitist, apparently.
And that sort of "reasoning" is all the more hilarious when you look at Trump's speeches. Virtually every single one of them was him bragging on his riches and his wealth and how he was just the best at this and that and he's got grand, huge plans and blah, blah, blah. Obama's elitist for using the word "I" in speeches, but Trump can brag on himself all over the place and that's somehow okay and NOT elitist?
I grant your point at the beginning of your post that elitism isn't just tied to material possessions. This is true. But for conservatives/Republicans to sit there and complain that Obama's elitist while completely ignoring the blatant elitism in Trump's words and behavior is...laughable. And the height of hypocrisy. Which is why I'm inclined to believe the criticisms of Obama from the right have less to do with "elitism" and more to do with certain other things they refuse to acknowledge.
But we'll get into that when we get to the next part of the discussion.
Also, I hope you're feeling better.
To quote Jon Stewart when he responded to Sean Hannity using this term to describe Trump, "that's not a thing". There is nothing about him that says "blue-collar". He wouldn't know how to live the sort of life people like my family lived whatsoever.
Also, as others have noted, "his crowd" calls him that. Yeah. No bias there.
Yes, a loan of, what was it, a million dollars? Yep. Totally blue-collar. Every hard-working blue-collar parent totally hands their child a million dollar loan when they're starting out on their own, right?
I have also heard stories of him scamming employees out of pay, families being pushed out of their homes so that one of his multiple towers can be built ('cause he really needs more of those, right?), and then there's also the accusations of him harassing women (and possibly worse) and treating his wives like shit.
If he has shown any positive behavior, it seems to be when he's in public and needs to put on a good show. Which is why it's really funny that his supporters kept claiming one of the reasons he was worth supporting was because he "didn't act like a politician". He's been engaging in that very behavior for years. He's whomever he needs to be in any given situation. You can shake people's hands all you want, it doesn't make you automatically "relatable" to the average Joe.
None of which are things your average citizen gets to do with their finances.
If that is true, those are indeed good things. But it's hard to square the idea of those acts of generosity coming from the same man who thinks it's okay to judge women based on a scale of 1 to 10, or who's been accused of, again, treating women like shit (and reading his Twitter feed alone should give you a pretty good idea of how he views them). It's hard to reconcile those good acts as coming from the same man who thinks it's okay to set up a registry targeting Muslims, or who treats his employees like shit, or who doesn't care about families losing their homes.
I wouldn't, 'cause I don't give a shit who the president plays golf with. Again, though, a man golfing with celebrities doesn't exactly scream "See, regular middle America folks, I'm just like you!"
I like many of those things about him, too (I don't care a whit about sports, but that's neither here nor there...). But I don't get why voters care so much about those particular aspects when it comes to deciding who to vote for, instead of just seeing them as neat bonuses. Yes, I want my president to relate to people...but I don't expect that relatability to come in the form of "Hey, he likes the same shows/music/sports teams I like!" or "He seems like someone I could have a beer with!" or whatever. Nice if that happens, sure, it's cool, but why does that matter?
Relatability, to me, comes in terms of understanding the struggles Americans are going through. And Obama grew up with a single mother. He watched her work hard to keep a roof over her family's head and see to it her son could get a good education. He is the very embodiment of the "American Dream" people like to harp on about.
Trump never had to work the way your average blue-collar worker did, or the way Obama did. He was born into wealth, he got things handed to him from his dad, and he has people do all the work for him. That is not something I can relate to, and I don't get how anyone in my economic bracket can relate to it.
Frankly, I don't think Trump's lifestyle is one people relate to so much as it's the kind they wish they had. And Trump, and the Republican Party in general, have led them to believe that they too can have this life if they make just the right amount of money to do so...
...all while they keep pushing economic policies that will hurt those very voters more than it will help them, and keep them from achieving that dream life.
He wasn't wrong about the "guns and religion" thing, though. Every time people even TRY and put forth any attempts at gun control, no matter how mild, we immediately hear people being all, "SECOND AMENDMENT RIGHTS! You can't take my guns away!"
And anytime people express any criticism of Christianity, or try and keep the separation of church and state, the religious conservatives throw a fit and talk about the "war on Christian family values".
Maybe every clinger has their variety of reasons why they do so, but what Obama said about them clinging, period, was a stone cold fact. And I'll remind you that I live in an area of the country where religion and guns are very important to a lot of people.
As for him being aloof...well, I'm a very quiet person offline. I hang back in conversations, I only really get more talkative when I feel comfortable around someone. I've heard about how people assume that quiet people are automatically "snobby" because they're not chatting up a storm when surrounded by other people, or because they might want some alone time now and again. Is that true, or is it just that some people's personalities affect the way they react in certain situations, or interact with people. There's been studies and discussion about how a lot of people don't seem to really understand the mindset of people who are more quiet/introverted/reserved/etc., and I sense that's part of the issue here.
Obama being "aloof" doesn't mean he's elitist. It just means he has a different way of communicating with people. And "aloof" can mean different things to different people, too. There's plenty of moments when he's appeared fairly social, too, and like you yourself said, he seems like a guy one can kick back and have a beer with, so it seems like he has some connection to people, which would kinda negate the "elitist" description, would it not?
I'll refer you to the others' explanations here.
...every president has used the word "I" in speeches and talked about themselves at some point in their career, though? My goodness, if that's the metric people are using to claim someone's elitist, then we're all elitist, apparently.
And that sort of "reasoning" is all the more hilarious when you look at Trump's speeches. Virtually every single one of them was him bragging on his riches and his wealth and how he was just the best at this and that and he's got grand, huge plans and blah, blah, blah. Obama's elitist for using the word "I" in speeches, but Trump can brag on himself all over the place and that's somehow okay and NOT elitist?
I grant your point at the beginning of your post that elitism isn't just tied to material possessions. This is true. But for conservatives/Republicans to sit there and complain that Obama's elitist while completely ignoring the blatant elitism in Trump's words and behavior is...laughable. And the height of hypocrisy. Which is why I'm inclined to believe the criticisms of Obama from the right have less to do with "elitism" and more to do with certain other things they refuse to acknowledge.
But we'll get into that when we get to the next part of the discussion.
Also, I hope you're feeling better.
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Agree with what you say, I can make my life better. Not the prez
But I was speaking from a white male, making good salary, and would see an increase in income due to lower taxes.
I do work with a ton of Indian contractors, the H1b visa program that has been used (and probably abused) by nearly every public corporation in this country.
I am still able to find work when I want it, mainly because I've been doing my job for 15 years and it's hard to find people with my skill set. BUT, that being said and to be honest, I do worry about job security because why pay me six figures to do a job when you can hire an Indian to do same thing (with maybe the same results) for 50-70k cheaper???
These contractors are def worried about their futures under trump. Not something I can really share in their grief other than my own sympathy
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Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
Latest rumor about the desperate inauguration - some X Factor runner up was invited, says she will only perform if she can sing Strange Fruit.
Haaaaa.
Also, it's actually very surprising that the traditionally-conservative country music arena isn't a part of the inauguration. You'd have thought there would have been at least 2 or 3 well-known folks in that genres offering to play. Maybe there were invitations offered and quietly declined, because even they want no part of it.
Haaaaa.
Also, it's actually very surprising that the traditionally-conservative country music arena isn't a part of the inauguration. You'd have thought there would have been at least 2 or 3 well-known folks in that genres offering to play. Maybe there were invitations offered and quietly declined, because even they want no part of it.
"Blue collar" billionaires.
All other billionaires.
Millionaires.
They all think you're useful idiots.
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
OMFG
. Ha, indeed.
That is interesting. And would give me a newfound respect for those artists if that's the case.
Trump's supporters should be glad that no big name celebrities are looking to attend the inauguration, though, I'd think, given how often conservatives moan about the "Hollywood elite" and whatnot. Wouldn't want any celebrities showing up at the presidential inauguration of a reality TV star, after all, right?
OP
OP
Regarding Trump lending out his plane to Desert storm troops - unsurprisingly the story first gained traction via Trump cheerleader Sean Hannity. But, also unsurprisingly, it's not true.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...o-check-sean-hannitys-tale-of-a-trump-rescue/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ampht...o-check-sean-hannitys-tale-of-a-trump-rescue/
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
You mean SprayTan McBabyHands* lied????
This is my shocked face.
* i literally just ran across that elsewhere on the interwebs. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to parrot it back here.
This is my shocked face.
* i literally just ran across that elsewhere on the interwebs. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to parrot it back here.
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
Well, there's that one possible good story about Trump down, then.
The slope gets slippier
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Every reason they voted, everything they know about him is a lie.
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Oregoropa
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I find this statement Glorified Hyperbole
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Well Bob's list has completely failed, have any of yours survived?
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Oregoropa
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
Complete failure before taking the Oath?
C'mon man.
Do you want to feed Bob after midnight ? (or 10 pm in this case)
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
Yes. He's backed down from, never lived up to, or proven it was just a phrase(i.e. drain the swamp); everything on his list has already been debunked.
How about your list?
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
This is the government that all those freedom loving, limited government folks have been yearning for...
bobsaget77
Rock n' Roll Doggie
I find it truly scary that someone can continue to obsess over people on an internet message board as much as you do.
You don't seem to have any discernible opinion of your own -- just the same resplurged talking points over and over again. Time after time, another swing, another miss. Do you really expect a different result when you continue to repeat the same stuff over and over again? If you do, it sounds like you could be certifiably insane.
I've ignored you for a while, but now i'm just going to completely mute you so I won't see any more of your posts -- you can stop wasting your time responding with more useless drivel. Your obsession usually just gives me a chuckle, but it seems as if your mental sanity is going down rapidly. It's hard to watch someone mentally spiral as fast as you have since the election.
Oregoropa
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
I want to go back to the good ole days when the head of the Justice Department and a former President (that happens to be the spouse of a candidate under FBI investigation) just happen to bump into each other on the PHX tarmac.
Chatting in a private plane about ethical things like grandkids and golf.
Irvine511
Blue Crack Supplier
In no way on earth are these things remotely comparable, or even related, or one is an excuse for the other.
You know this is indefensible, and done for a very specific purpose.
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
This is laughable. You are seriously THE last person on this board to be questioning anyone about thinking for themselves. Having to completely "mute" someone is a sign that one can't think for themselves, defend themselves, or actually engage. Information isolationism is how you got here in the first place.
Enjoy
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BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
OP
OP
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