Trump General Discussion III

[Moonlit_Angel]

Yeah, I too fully support space exploration and all that comes with it, but I don't exactly trust this particular upcoming administration to handle that issue well. Especially given the way the Republican Party as a whole has treated anything science-related in recent years.

That, and we've got so many problems here on Earth to sort out, too. I can see a lot of people feeling like our focus should stay on that right now instead.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

As to the punctuation in my original sentence making my one point into two separate ones, I do backtrack a bit, then. I don't know that now is the time to focus so strongly on moon exploration, when we have so much else to achieve. If it's with the idea of reaching further, awesome. If it's because Trump wants to remember what it was like in the 60s, then I think it's stupid. And again, this comes after his announcement of taking NASA off of climate change, so excuse me if I equate the two topics automatically. Even if the budget isn't that much, it still feels like, hey, stop focusing on earth and let's get back to all that moon research we did when America was great.

So, what's nice about NASA is that it answers only to the president and not to any particular department. That allows for a guarantee of an independently driven mission, with no shady collaborations with the DoD or stuff like that. Thankfully. The downfall, of course, is that when an orange president writes your budget, you are supposed to deliver to him. So, earth sciences is a small portion of NASA's funds. Within it, climate research is only a portion. But here's the extra kicker -- Trump can make it policy to not focus on that. But he can't just cut that out of the books entirely without wasting tons of already-spent money. Certainly can scale back future projects and make current ones stretch out. Ultimately though, NASA is self governed though.

Which leads me to my point of this semi-rambling. If Trump wants to relive the 60s, it doesn't mean NASA will suddenly get shortsighted and also relive the 60s. Projects outlive presidencies. If he wants to push towards the moon? NASA will just modify their current Evolvable Mars Campaign. The moon was already a heavy consideration. It's already part of the plans. Though technically pre-Martian landings were not on the books, human space flight to cislunar space was already planned. NASA uses a "proving ground" based model. Where Orion, as a project, is supposed to do something like this: test stuff on earth, prove it, test stuff around earth, prove it, test stuff away from earth (the moon, NEAs), prove it, test stuff around Mars, prove it, test stuff on Mars, execute final plans. That's why you hear NASA saying late 2030s, and all the ambitious folks like Elon Musk saying early 2020s. It's not that they're slow. It's not that they're incapable. They have a necessity to live through several administrations, and a responsibility to return technologies and economic growth. So, on each proving ground phase, there's technological growth and increased capability.

If Trump wants to pretend it's the 60s? Fine, I don't mind. NASA won't pretend it's the 60s. As long as he's not rolling eyes at human space flight, I'm happy. The moon is an integral part of virtually any space mission architecture to further human space flight. It's a guarantee that policy towards the moon will be part of the bigger picture, not just hope.

I'm really not interested in bickering back and forth with you. I truly feel you misinterpreted my feelings on this subject, and in turn, if you feel I belittled you, I apologize for making it seem that way. It just felt like you were really talking down on the subject, and that's not a feeling that feels so great.

I'm sorry if you feel I was condescending to you or looking down at you. I appreciate someone's interest in space and love talking about it.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Yeah, I too fully support space exploration and all that comes with it, but I don't exactly trust this particular upcoming administration to handle that issue well. Especially given the way the Republican Party as a whole has treated anything science-related in recent years.

That, and we've got so many problems here on Earth to sort out, too. I can see a lot of people feeling like our focus should stay on that right now instead.

Yes, trusting him is also my biggest difficulty. He might open his mouth and say one thing, but I wouldn't be shocked to see NASAs budget shrink significantly under his administration.

 

[BEAL]

So Obamas banned these Russian diplomats from the US for hacking the election, the Russian UK embassy is now trolling the US on Twitter https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/814564127230271489
and Trump will probably overturn the ban when he becomes pres because Russia helped him become president. What the fuck is going on?!

We are fucked. Russians own Trump but well never know for sure because we as a country felt it was OK for him to not release his tax info

Our country will be blackmailed into allowing Russia so do whatever the fuck it wants and it could easily start WW3 because of it.

But not till after 2018, Russia doesn't want to fuck things up before World Cup


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[Headache in a Suitcase]

So Obamas banned these Russian diplomats from the US for hacking the election, the Russian UK embassy is now trolling the US on Twitter https://twitter.com/RussianEmbassy/status/814564127230271489
and Trump will probably overturn the ban when he becomes pres because Russia helped him become president. What the fuck is going on?!

There it is! Meme humor for the win!

 

[Vlad n U 2]

We are fucked. Russians own Trump but well never know for sure because we as a country felt it was OK for him to not release his tax info

Our country will be blackmailed into allowing Russia so do whatever the fuck it wants and it could easily start WW3 because of it.

But not till after 2018, Russia doesn't want to fuck things up before World Cup


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I love your content BEAL.

 

[Bluer White]

Our country will be blackmailed into allowing Russia so do whatever the fuck it wants and it could easily start WW3 because of it.

But not till after 2018, Russia doesn't want to fuck things up before World Cup


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Russia wants to start a World War.

Why ?

 

[TheFox]

Russia wants to start a World War.

Why ?

They want to rule the world,Putin is power crazy much like Trump although he has a bit more intellect to go with it. What an absolute mess the US is in, it's almost funny if it wasn't so catastrophic.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

Russia wants to start a World War.

Why ?

I don't believe for a second that they're willing to start a World War. For what it's worth, I think Erdogan's Turkey is more volatile in this case.

They want to rule the world,Putin is power crazy much like Trump although he has a bit more intellect to go with it. What an absolute mess the US is in, it's almost funny if it wasn't so catastrophic.

With all due respect, this is pretty lazy.

 

[Oregoropa]

Putin wants to take a little bite here a little bite there of formerly ethnic Russian territory.


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[kiwilad]

Putin wants to take a little bite here a little bite there of formerly ethnic Russian territory.


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Which, to be fair, history tells us is one way of starting a world war.
I doubt Putin wants a world war, ie Russia vs the world.
My fear is Putin seems capable of triggering conflicts that could lead to war.
And Trump seems to be ok with Putin's military and foreign policy...
That's my uneducated feel for this. And it scares the shit out of me.
Am I wrong?

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[LuckyNumber7]

Putin himself isn't starting a world war. No more than a US president would be. I genuinely believe that's not how a world war would start in this modern era.

Putin acts in the interests of Russia. If you want a likely source of a world war, Turkey is your brewing point. A madman in an unstable region where westernism meets jihadism. Where the face of terrorism meets the hands of someone with true power. Where land is plentiful and ungoverned. Where treaties and agreements are dangerously and delicately balanced.

That, or in the South Pacific, with notable players Japan and China. Though that's much much less likely, because China isn't irresponsible in the same way that Russia or the United States is, I don't believe.

 

[kiwilad]

Turkey starting a regional conflict I can see. But a world war?
Russia picking sides (Ukraine, Syria), arming them, supporting them and doing so against the wishes of 'the west' is what scares me.
Now I'm not saying Russia is wrong, picking the wrong sides etc. I don't have the knowledge to have an opinion. What my fear is, is a nuclear armed superpower viewing the world so differently to other nuclear armed superpowers. And being brash enough to ignore the other powers' concerns.
So perhaps it's wrong to say I fear Russia could start a war. I fear Russia and 'the west' are so far away from reading from the same page that it scares me.

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[Vlad n U 2]

Putin himself isn't starting a world war. No more than a US president would be. I genuinely believe that's not how a world war would start in this modern era.

Putin acts in the interests of Russia. If you want a likely source of a world war, Turkey is your brewing point. A madman in an unstable region where westernism meets jihadism. Where the face of terrorism meets the hands of someone with true power. Where land is plentiful and ungoverned. Where treaties and agreements are dangerously and delicately balanced.

That, or in the South Pacific, with notable players Japan and China. Though that's much much less likely, because China isn't irresponsible in the same way that Russia or the United States is, I don't believe.

I agree with this take for the most part. If anything comparatively more substantial will happen, then I'd bank on it developing out of existing conflicts in Syria etc.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Turkey starting a regional conflict I can see. But a world war?
Russia picking sides (Ukraine, Syria), arming them, supporting them and doing so against the wishes of 'the west' is what scares me.
Now I'm not saying Russia is wrong, picking the wrong sides etc. I don't have the knowledge to have an opinion. What my fear is, is a nuclear armed superpower viewing the world so differently to other nuclear armed superpowers. And being brash enough to ignore the other powers' concerns.
So perhaps it's wrong to say I fear Russia could start a war. I fear Russia and 'the west' are so far away from reading from the same page that it scares me.

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What causes a world war? Everyone doesn't just say "hey we want in on this!" right? Turkey is a NATO member. That's the important note here. The same NATO member that shot down a Russian jet. The same one with a border with the most unstable country in the world. Where Cold War era military standoffs are currently occurring. Turkey also has a definitive hatred for some of the players in that conflict.

Russia's annexation of Crimea was cold, irresponsible, and calculated. But make no mistake, the US was likely partly at fault for that. Russia and Putin are ballsy enough to take advantage of a likely US backed power struggle in Ukraine, but they're not stupid -- they wouldn't make a move on a NATO member.

That's the thing though. In Turkey, things are far less stable. Erdogan is damn near a dictator. He's in control of the second largest standing army in the world. He's a terrorist sympathizer and Islamist. He's corrupt. He's just an all around terrible person with views asymmetric to those of other NATO countries. Yet, they're all militarily bound together.

 

[BEAL]

My fear is that Putin doesn't have fear. He is a man who believes that if a fight is inevitable, then you strike first.

No doubt he will try to pick off more and more smaller nations to rebuild an old USSSR.

Turkey, could easily start some shit too and isn't that typically how a world war starts? Multiple conflicts going on at same time that seem to merge together once sides are picked.

We have an incoming president who has never once said a negative comment towards Putin. Trump has literally flip flopped on every single stance he's ever been on record talking about, but has never wavered on glowing remarks about Putin.

His campaign staff had ties to Russian Oligarchs, and his incoming staff has even closer ties.

It's not a stretch to think that there is favoritism going on, or potentially that Trump is paying back some sort of business loans/deals made in the past.

It's all just a little unnerving.


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[LuckyNumber7]

Oh I think Trump is legitimately a fan of Vladimir Putin.

 

[TheFox]

Oh I think Trump is legitimately a fan of Vladimir Putin.

Google Kompromat, Trump and Putin. Some allegedly very shady stuff going on between them that Russia are sitting on. Watch Trump stop all sanctions against Russia when he gets in.

 

[BVS]

We are Putin's bitch come Jan 20th.

Thanks Trumpets.

 

[TheFox]

Putins puppet. Absolutely amazing really for the forthcoming POTUS to take a stance like this(pinned tweet). Surely all this could see him impeached(If of course the hacking is true) https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/814919370711461890

 

[cobl04]

You wonder how much patience Republicans have when he just treats NATO like a snot rag.

 

[kiwilad]

You wonder how much patience Republicans have when he just treats NATO like a snot rag.

I don't think Repiblicans care. They're in power. That's enough. I mean, can you legitimately think of someone worse than Trump? Probably not. And he's being embraced and defended as if he's the GOP saviour.
It's team GOP first, US second, it seems.

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[LuckyNumber7]

I don't think Repiblicans care. They're in power. That's enough. I mean, can you legitimately think of someone worse than Trump? Probably not. And he's being embraced and defended as if he's the GOP saviour.
It's team GOP first, US second, it seems.

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I can think of a handful worse than Trump. Ted Cruz comes to mind.

 

[BVS]

Republicans don't care, they threw out all principles. They no longer stand for anything. I mean we've all seen the Jon Stewart clip, we've seen Bob's list of reasons and know not one stands true, they're just glad they're in power, it's a man, claims to Christian, and he's white.


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[Oregoropa]

-Why is Obama seen as an elitist among conservatives, but Trump, who has multiple properties and mansions, actual gold-plated items, and the like, is not considered an elitist?

Sinus pressure is lifting so I can tackle the first question.

I think the viewpoint of conservatives has to do with Elitist behavior and opinions as opposed, to 'brick and mortar' wealth.

Trump has been described as a Blue-Collar Billionaire by his crowd. Started with a loan/gift from his father. Had understanding of the building-construction process which eventually evolved into business/real estate development. Respecting his employees, from the guy laying the bricks, to the doorman, to the head architect on his latest project.

There are many anecdotes of him shaking every hand of every employee in a restaurant. If he was in Mar-A-Lago on business and there happened to be Wedding in one of the ballrooms he would make it a point to stop by and meet the bride-groom and shake the parents hands.

This was a question posed in the general section of Reddit last month (not exactly friendly territory for Trumpers, outside of the r/The_Donald subreddit) Interesting read where you get a feel with how Trump interacts with Joe Blow.

People who have met or dealt with Donald Trump in person prior to the race, what was he like?

For a man of considerable wealth, he has done some over-the-top marketing of his brand. Trump "The Game", Trump Steaks, Trump Vodka, buying gold furniture and shit. He was a private citizen. Tends to gloat. However, there are many instances of generosity that he does under the radar. Lends out his plane to get Desert Storm troops home for the Holidays. Transport an ill child that needed special breathing equipment on board.

Trump and Obama both love to golf. Plenty instances of taking celebrities, athletes out. Trump and Brady. Both guys and Tiger. I'd be pulling that card too if I were President.

Onto the perception of Obama. I've stated that I think he will be remembered as a bad President. However, if had to pick an entourage of 4 Presidents to join me for a guys night out, he would be one of my top choices. Give me Obama, Clinton, JFK, And Teddy Roosevelt. I gather he loves to drink, watch sports, knows current pop culture. He stated back in 07' his favorite TV show was Entourage which I loved at the time. Seems like a fun guy and his ability to relate to people helped him in both elections.

In Presidential practice, conservatives have complained about his elitist behavior. Aloof attitude. Way back he had his Deplorable moment when he referred to those in Middle America as bitter people who clinged to their guns and religion during a closed door Fundraiser in San Francisco. That was the root of the claims of his Cosmopolitan Elitism all the way back in 2008. Broadbrush statement, that is probably rooted in some truth, but every clinger must be judged on their own attitude.

There were moments when Obama seemed to really want to stick it to the American people. It was an elitist move to shut down the WWII memorial during the government shutdown. The memorial itself is an open-air charity funded monument in Washington. Maybe it was his 'Art of the Deal' to end the shutdown. But the ones hurt the most were veterans (some of them dying) who arranged to take group flights to DC to see the memorial. For me that was one of his lowest moments of smug elitism.

Other conservatives argue his narcissistic elitism is on display almost every time he gives a speech or press conference. Refers to himself as "I" in some deliveries more than 200 times. Those are a couple reasons why conservatives view Obama as elitist. The super-haters can cite many more, I'm not super hard on him (just a few moments). Every President will have those tone-deaf elite moments. Bush 41 in the supermarket check out line. Bill parsing the word "is". Trump is bound to have his moments too.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Sinus pressure is lifting so I can tackle the first question.

I think the viewpoint of conservatives has to do with Elitist behavior and opinions as opposed, to 'brick and mortar' wealth.

Trump has been described as a Blue-Collar Billionaire by his crowd. Started with a loan/gift from his father. Had understanding of the building-construction process which eventually evolved into business/real estate development. Respecting his employees, from the guy laying the bricks, to the doorman, to the head architect on his latest project.

There are many anecdotes of him shaking every hand of every employee in a restaurant. If he was in Mar-A-Lago on business and there happened to be Wedding in one of the ballrooms he would make it a point to stop by and meet the bride-groom and shake the parents hands.

This was a question posed in the general section of Reddit last month (not exactly friendly territory for Trumpers, outside of the r/The_Donald subreddit) Interesting read where you get a feel with how Trump interacts with Joe Blow.

People who have met or dealt with Donald Trump in person prior to the race, what was he like?

For a man of considerable wealth, he has done some over-the-top marketing of his brand. Trump "The Game", Trump Steaks, Trump Vodka, buying gold furniture and shit. He was a private citizen. Tends to gloat. However, there are many instances of generosity that he does under the radar. Lends out his plane to get Desert Storm troops home for the Holidays. Transport an ill child that needed special breathing equipment on board.

Trump and Obama both love to golf. Plenty instances of taking celebrities, athletes out. Trump and Brady. Both guys and Tiger. I'd be pulling that card too if I were President.

Onto the perception of Obama. I've stated that I think he will be remembered as a bad President. However, if had to pick an entourage of 4 Presidents to join me for a guys night out, he would be one of my top choices. Give me Obama, Clinton, JFK, And Teddy Roosevelt. I gather he loves to drink, watch sports, knows current pop culture. He stated back in 07' his favorite TV show was Entourage which I loved at the time. Seems like a fun guy and his ability to relate to people helped him in both elections.

In Presidential practice, conservatives have complained about his elitist behavior. Aloof attitude. Way back he had his Deplorable moment when he referred to those in Middle America as bitter people who clinged to their guns and religion during a closed door Fundraiser in San Francisco. That was the root of the claims of his Cosmopolitan Elitism all the way back in 2008. Broadbrush statement, that is probably rooted in some truth, but every clinger must be judged on their own attitude.

There were moments when Obama seemed to really want to stick it to the American people. It was an elitist move to shut down the WWII memorial during the government shutdown. The memorial itself is an open-air charity funded monument in Washington. Maybe it was his 'Art of the Deal' to end the shutdown. But the ones hurt the most were veterans (some of them dying) who arranged to take group flights to DC to see the memorial. For me that was one of his lowest moments of smug elitism.

Other conservatives argue his narcissistic elitism is on display almost every time he gives a speech or press conference. Refers to himself as "I" in some deliveries more than 200 times. Those are a couple reasons why conservatives view Obama as elitist. The super-haters can cite many more, I'm not super hard on him (just a few moments). Every President will have those tone-deaf elite moments. Bush 41 in the supermarket check out line. Bill parsing the word "is". Trump is bound to have his moments too.

I mean... holy shit.

Blaming Obama and elitism for vets not being able to visit a monument during a government shutdown 100% orchestrated by Ted Cruz and the tea party Republicans? Jesus H Christ, no wonder you fell for the "Trump is a blue collar billionaire" bullshit. Guy was born with the silverist of silver spoons in his mouth, and rebuilt his fortune... you know, after he lost all of the millions of dollars his daddy gave him, screwing over countles contractors and workers along the way... by making people believe he actually built buildings with his name on it anymore.


Fuck it's not as if I can even argue that you didn't pay attention... it's as if you live in your own fucking la la land alternate reality.

For fuck's sake.

 

[bono_212]

Stopped reading after blue collar billionaire. I prefer to live in reality.

 

[LemonMelon]

Described as such "by his crowd"

 

[Oregoropa]

I mean... holy shit.

Blaming Obama and elitism for vets not being able to visit a monument during a government shutdown 100% orchestrated by Ted Cruz and the tea party Republicans?

Fuck it's not as if I can even argue that you didn't pay attention... it's as if you live in your own fucking la la land alternate reality.

For fuck's sake.

Department of the Interior falls under the Executive. Obama had the choice as to which open air granite blocks on the National Mall can be viewed up close by the taxpayers.

This was the 17th Government shutdown since 1976. WWII memorial is fairly new but even in the past war memorials/monuments stayed open. It was Obama's call. Unprecedented bad optics.

Described as such "by his crowd"

Moonlit wants to understand the conservative point of view.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Department of the Interior falls under the Executive. Obama had the choice as to which open air granite blocks on the National Mall can be viewed up close by the taxpayers.

This was the 17th Government shutdown since 1976. WWII memorial is fairly new but even in the past war memorials/monuments stayed open. It was Obama's call. Unprecedented bad optics.



Moonlit wants to understand the conservative point of view.

Bullshit. This was a politically motivated bullshit shutdown led by the Ted Cruz's of the world in order to defund Obamacare. The Republicans then tried to pick and choose which areas to fund after the shutdown began. The only people who disliked the optics of the Obama administration were those were going to dislike whatever Obama did, anyways.