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Oregeropa, thanks for the response. I guess the thing to me that solidifies the flag as a racist symbol is that it first appeared as a battle flag - i.e., flying for the side that was literally willing to kill in order to keep slavery legal. Were there other reasons the south was fighting? Yes, but slavery was inarguably at the core of the fight. Is the flag of historical significance? Yes. But its historical significance is inextricably tied to slavery and the racism that sought to prevent its abolishment. So you can't argue that the flag is just a marker of a noteworthy heritage without acknowledging that that heritage was explicitly racist. And the Breitbart article does its best to minimize that connection.
 
No one is asking for eradication.

The swatstika had positive symbolism prior to being adopted by Nazi Germany.

Do you think anyone would write Swatstika: a Sign of Hope?

Well Breitbart might, but other than him and Duke, probably not.

It's great you understand how the flag started, but that's not what it is today. It stands for a portion of the country that committed treason over their desire to own another race as property.


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I had a chance to read the article. Here are my interpretations.



In the wake of the Charleston shooting there was strong pressure being exerted by the left and media to eradicate the Confederate Flag as a state symbol. Some were even calling to remove monuments to fallen Confederate soldiers that have stood for 130 years.



The Stars and Bars flag (initially the battle flag of the army of Northern Virginia) has been co-opted as a symbol of division after the war, but in its context is an important piece of American History. Unlike the red Nazi Banner which draped the public square of every reach of the Reich, the NVA flag was initially used during engagements by Southern Forces under the command of Robert E. Lee. This is not a flag that popped up in 1859 and flew over every cotton field in the south while slaves were beaten and killed in the name of that banner. I believe this an important distinction. The Nazi banner has been outlawed in Germany as its initial intent was never in doubt.



My dad is a Civil War history buff and passed that onto me. We dragged my sister to go see the 4 hour movie Gettysburg (Jeff Daniels, Martin Sheen) when she was 9 years old. A movie so long it had an intermission. Based upon the book the Killer Angels. The movie and the book accurately portrays an America in its youth when there were sinners and saints on both sides of the lines. Many of these men fought along side each other in the Mexican-American War. When secession happened each man was forced to make a choice over which side to fight for. At the this time the United States was more analogous to the current European Union where national (state) loyalties took precedence, even if the southern commanders disagreed with slavery.



Robert E. Lee was offered command of the entire Northern Army, but could not turn his back on Virginia. Imagine if the EU split down the middle, he wasn't going to abandoned Austria to take up command of the Parisian based Army. The commanders of the Confederacy were some of the greatest military minds the world has ever seen. It's not a racist thing to acknowledge this historical truth. War is never pretty, but it can be argued that this was the last war of Civility. The movie, book shows the opposing campfires where they contemplated morality, friendship before the battles ensued. There was a reverence given to their commanders and their glorious banners.



The Breitbart article is a pushback against the overreach of those on the left who want to relegate certain aspects of history to the dumpster. The use of the term Glorious can be argued as a cross between rhetorical device and clickbait meant to draw the reader into the article that ends up being more nuanced than a white supremacist hit piece.



The Battle Flag of the Army of NV has been used as a symbol of hate, but we must find its proper context before we bulldoze Monument Avenue in Richmond, Virginia. Small towns throughout the south have monuments to honor the dead in the bloodiest war in American history. In the end the right side of history prevailed. Robert E Lee knew when it was time to quit and prevent future bloodshed. He is a figure in American History with greater importance than many Presidents. The south was full a despicable figures as well. Gen. Sherman in the north was a vicious commander as well.



I believe there can be a compromise in removing instances of the stars and bars in the public square where the visual may cause discomfort, but we would be remiss to eradicate this period of history as a whole.



:up:
 
some of us worried that he'd start an unnecessary war in the middle east, but not a nuclear war. Bush was an establishment candidate. much was made about his incuriosity, simple-mindedness, and laziness. in response, he and the establishment surround him with highly experienced advisors in order to project the appearance of seriousness and accountability. these people may have been deeply conservative, but they were deeply experienced and understood the gravity of their jobs.

Trump doesn't understand policy at all, and thinks he knows more than the generals, probably because he has "the best brain."

as for race, Bush was positively moderate on immigration. he called out Trent Lott's racism.

and, you know, he didn't APPOINT WHITE SUPREMACISTS AND ANTI-SEMITES to top white house positions.

also, Bush didn't sexually assault women.

All of this, plus Bush also wasn't so horrifically thin-skinned as to pick random fights with people who were "meeeeeean" to him or dared to actually call him out on his bullshit. Twitter came out a couple years prior to the end of his presidency, and yet I don't remember hearing about him going on some inane three am Twitter rant.

I will repeat: earlier this week, Trump's campaign team took his Twitter account away for a time because they wanted to attempt to keep him on a leash leading up to the election.

And now, a man whose own team didn't trust him to handle his own Twitter account because of his not-so-stable presence online is being given our nuclear codes.

If Trump supporters don't see something fundamentally disturbing and wrong with that, I honestly don't know what the hell else I can say to them that will make it actually sink in.

Also, regarding all the racist people being connected to Trump...remember when Obama was running in 2008, and the right was going on and on and on about Reverend Wright and Alinsky and Bill Ayers, and making it sound like he had these DEEP CONNECTIONS with these horrible people? Remember how they made a big thing out of how who somebody associates with says a lot about them?

Funny how the right's tune is changing now anytime somebody tries to bring up Trump's support from the KKK, or these alt-right people joining him. Apparently now associations or support from certain people/groups don't seem to matter, I guess.
 
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Laura Ingraham being eyed for press secretary. Cool. Great. Bigly. Another winner. This is fine.

My burning question today is for Mrs. Garrison: why do you type Trump all in caps?

Because that is how you see it on the buildings, the airplane, etc. I also referred to his opponent as HRC if you recall, which i believe is how a lot of other people did as well. :)
 
that is rarely ever true :huh:


Every single post of yours today lacks truth, you wouldn't know truth if it stared you in the eye. You live in a world where HRC created ISIS, Trump didn't paint all Mexicans with the same brush, and FYM posters stated Bush would nuke us all. You live in the comments section, not in reality.


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Yeaaaaaaa...

Wasn't calling you a cunt there chief. Was typing the word over and over again, as you and others continued to make the false claim that saying a bad word is somehow equivalent to what Trump said on that bus.

Good try, though. :up:

You are not fooling anyone, it was obvious what you were doing. As for you calling me "chief", is that because i am a native american? What. the. hell.

Some things are more important than political affiliation. This man is a con. He's not even a major real estate developer, and hasn't been in decades. Why? He went bankrupt. Most of the buildings with his name on it he didn't even build. He's a brand; famous for being famous. You think this smart businessman is going to fix anything? You voted for a glorified Kim Kardashian. You. Were. Conned.

What is really sad is the fact that YOUR candidate couldn't even beat what you are calling a "glorified Kim Kardashian". :giggle:

Looks like You. Were. Conned. And we did try to warn you. :wave:

But worse, he's done nothing but spew hateful rhetoric throughout his campaign. I know all Trump supporters aren't racist homophobes. But ya did vote for one. And don't show that fucking pixture of Trump with the rainbow flag again. A man who cares about LBGT rights does not name Mike Pence as his running mate.

First off i wasn't the one who posted the picture of TRUMP with the rainbow flag. And second, please don't you tell me what i can and cannot post here.

Anger issues? Yea bro, I'm pretty fucking angry about this. And I won't stop protesting until he's gone, no matter how long that takes. Which, come on... shouldn't really be that long. Do you really think those Apprentice tapes of him dropping N bombs left and right will stay locked up forever?

This man is a piece of shit. Congrats on "your side" electing him and "winning."

Sorry about your anger issues. I truly hope that you find peace in your life.
 
Every single post of yours today lacks truth, you wouldn't know truth if it stared you in the eye. You live in a world where HRC created ISIS, Trump didn't paint all Mexicans with the same brush, and FYM posters stated Bush would nuke us all. You live in the comments section, not in reality.


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Keep smiling my friend :up:
 
What is really sad is the fact that YOUR candidate couldn't even beat what you are calling a "glorified Kim Kardashian". :giggle:



Looks like You. Were. Conned. And we did try to warn you. :wave:


That's now how this works, that's not how any of this works... :facepalm:

Pay attention, headache didn't fall for anything.


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Trump wants his three of his kids to be national security advisers with the highest clearance level - what a joke.
 
We should just make a thread called "Who Got Conned???" and save ourselves a lot of trouble in this one.
 
Yes, they can have full security briefings while remaining in the private sector and making off like bandits knowing what they know on a security clearance basis. You really couldn't make this up if you tried.
 
Excuse me, but when was Huma receiving briefings based on top secret security clearance WHILE running a multinational business empire which does business all over the place internationally?

Hello?
 
How could any of them be worse than Huma Abedin?

Having a clearance is one thing - advising the President on national security matters is another. Their prior advisory experience includes whether or not to fire Dennis Rodman.
 
Who cares about their qualifications?

Does nobody see what a massive conflict of interest this would be?

Why don't we also give top secret clearance to other millionaires with business investments abroad. I mean, what could go wrong?
 
Read my last line

yea, i caught the part where you diminished this entire thing as being about "discomfort". like it's only a nuisance to have people openly celebrate a ubiquitous symbol of them enslaving an entire race of humans and everyone who feels "discomfort" should just get over it and try to "compromise". would a jew getting upset at seeing the nazi flag flown (over public buildings no less) just be experiencing "discomfort" at a symbol of industrial murder? that the jews should just "compromise" because it would be eradicating history to say "it's not okay for us to openly celebrate symbols used by the people that systematically abused and murdered your ancestors for their own interests"?

you can't allow one without the other. they're the exact same thing. any attempt to create a difference is either a defense of slavery or a defense of nazism. i notice in your post that you've decided to take the "slavery wasn't as bad" route. you should be ashamed of yourself.
 
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Yes, they can have full security briefings while remaining in the private sector and making off like bandits knowing what they know on a security clearance basis. You really couldn't make this up if you tried.

And yet everyone was freaking out about Hillary's emails risking our national security.

I just...I cannot even with this level of hypocrisy.
 
I see that Trump has started his fight against corruption quickly.

http://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...donald-trump-conflicts-of-interest-corruption

Trump’s plan, by contrast, is simply to hand over management of the Trump Organization network of businesses to a council composed of his children and some other executives. He has chosen to call this council a “blind trust,” and some media outlets have unaccountably agreed to go along with it. But even in the age of Trump, words have meaning, and asking your kids to manage your affairs for you is not what a blind trust is.
 
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i'm quite certain that acting on any of those national secrets in order to further their private businesses is illegal. it's insider trading.
 
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