Trump General Discussion

[Oregoropa]

They're just short fat white males? I feel like whoever made this doesn't know the premise of lord of the rings.

It just makes me laugh hard as a fan of meme humor


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[BEAL]

Trump picks anti-LGBT hate group to run domestic policy transition - AMERICAblog News

If this is true, then I don't care about the good folk who aren't racist, who just want to go back to the good old days of factory work and an earnst living.

Those were never going to come back anyway with automation and globalization. Instead, they may have enabled a man who could potentially ruin a lot of good people's lives based on a belief, an orientation, or skin color.

Just horrible

 

[bobsaget77]

They're just short fat white males? I feel like whoever made this doesn't know the premise of lord of the rings.

How does it not make sense?
Dwarves and Elves hate each other but unify together for the common good of destroying sauron and saruman.
It's implying that Trump supporters and Bernie supporters may not like each other, but many would unify together to defeat Hillary, the establishment, etc.

 

[bobsaget77]

Unfortunately the Dems ignored Michael Moore (of Michigan), who predicted a Trump win in July and says Sanders would have won. They also ignored the advice of Rep. Dingell of Michigan to campaign more in the rust belt. Many of the rust belt Trump voters switched from Obama or Sanders. 6-7 million Dem. voters stayed home versus 2012 as well.

I was rooting for Hillary to win the nomination because i was much more worried about Bernie winning than Hillary.
This country collectively hates Hillary Clinton. Makes me very happy to know that she will never be president.

 

[Oregoropa]

How does it not make sense?
Dwarves and Elves hate each other but unify together for the common good of destroying sauron and saruman.
It's implying that Trump supporters and Bernie supporters may not like each other, but many would unify together to defeat Hillary, the establishment, etc.

The job is not done. Putin hates Soros.




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[bobsaget77]

The job is not done. Putin hates Soros.

View attachment 10972


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Soros is just the tip of the iceberg. He's the face of evil. But it goes much deeper than just him.
We need to rip out the evils of globalism straight from it's roots. The only thing that can and will stop globalism is the beautiful movement of strong nationalism sweeping across the world. Britain, then America, and Germany is next.

 

[anitram]

Robots also don't pay taxes or vote. I can see the Rust Belt becoming the new Iowa (where politicians praise the idea of burning corn to power cars). They may start to denounce or regulate automation. Fossil fuels may have the same political baggage.

Except that America only functions as long as people can go buy cheap flat screen TVs and other things at Walmart and feel like they too have "stuff". It is a rampant consumerism-based economy. You'll recall W telling people in the aftermath of 9/11 to go shopping.

Once you introduce tariffs and get rid of automation, you also lose your cheap shit. And the salary you're drawing won't be nearly enough to make up for the difference.

There is one thing that nobody has really talked about in here which is probably the biggest thing that is looming (but it's boring and complicated so the media won't cover it). Janet Yellen's term at the fed is up either in Jan or Feb. As far as I remember there are 2-3 other governors at the Fed whose terms are expiring at the same time. The Republicans have run a campaign of smearing the Fed for the last few years and for those who care why, the answer is interest rates. Their theory has been that Yellen-types who have been keeping interests low have contributed to the sluggish economy and that the way to get the economy to rip is to increase interest rates aggressively. This is a very ideologically driven view because we know with 100% certainty that the result within 3-4 years would be a recession (that can/should be followed by a recovery down the line). The Republican leadership has time and again made clear that they want to stack the Fed with hard money guys, i.e. those who will drive up interest rates. But this puts them in a bit of a pickle right around the time of the 2020 election. So this will be an interesting internal battle to see who sets the tone.

 

[Oregoropa]

Soros is just the tip of the iceberg. He's the face of evil. But it goes much deeper than just him.
We need to rip out the evils of globalism straight from it's roots. The only thing that can and will stop globalism is the beautiful movement of strong nationalism sweeping across the world. Britain, then America, and Germany is next.

The EU may fall apart in 2 years. Trumps victory is a shot of adrenaline to movements that promote the individual nation-state and despise the technocrats governing them in Brussels


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[LuckyNumber7]

How does it not make sense?
Dwarves and Elves hate each other but unify together for the common good of destroying sauron and saruman.
It's implying that Trump supporters and Bernie supporters may not like each other, but many would unify together to defeat Hillary, the establishment, etc.

Except the image is somehow implying that people came together *because* they were white males. You know, because the actual line is "by a friend."

And you're way off. There was no "alliance" between Trump supporters and Sanders supporters. It just so happened that some Bernie supporters were Trump supporters all along, and when their favored of the two lost out, they went with the other "anti establishment" candidate.

Your poetic little story is cute and all, but that's not how it happened.

Now start answering questions when they're posed to you, instead of your typical selective listening.

 

[Irvine511]

Soros is just the tip of the iceberg. He's the face of evil. But it goes much deeper than just him.
We need to rip out the evils of globalism straight from it's roots. The only thing that can and will stop globalism is the beautiful movement of strong nationalism sweeping across the world. Britain, then America, and Germany is next.

sorry, but this really is pretty Nazi. i'm not using the term lightly.

 

[Irvine511]

conned.

Trump Campaigned Against Lobbyists, but Now They’re on His Transition Team
By ERIC LIPTONNOV. 11, 2016


WASHINGTON — President-elect Donald J. Trump, who campaigned against the corrupt power of special interests, is filling his transition team with some of the very sort of people who he has complained have too much clout in Washington: corporate consultants and lobbyists.

Jeffrey Eisenach, a consultant who has worked for years on behalf of Verizon and other telecommunications clients, is the head of the team that is helping to pick staff members at the Federal Communications Commission.

Michael Catanzaro, a lobbyist whose clients include Devon Energy and Encana Oil and Gas, holds the “energy independence” portfolio.

Michael Torrey, a lobbyist who runs a firm that has earned millions of dollars helping food industry players such as the American Beverage Association and the dairy giant Dean Foods, is helping set up the new team at the Department of Agriculture.


Mr. Trump was swept to power in large part by white working-class voters who responded to his vow to restore the voices of forgotten people, ones drowned out by big business and Wall Street. But in his transition to power, some of the most prominent voices will be those of advisers who come from the same industries for which they are being asked to help set the regulatory groundwork.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/12/u...s-now-theyre-on-his-transition-team.html?_r=0

bunch of suckers.

 

[anitram]

Soros is just the tip of the iceberg. He's the face of evil. But it goes much deeper than just him.

Are you at all aware of Soros' tireless fight against communism in eastern Europe, his "secret" funding at the time of intellectuals who opposed communism in those countries, his general role in transitioning those nations to democracy, all the work he had done under the table with the Reagan administration and so on?

Or is that all too complex to process as compared to being "the face of evil"?

 

[bobsaget77]

sorry, but this really is pretty Nazi. i'm not using the term lightly.

It's only nazi if it becomes about race and I haven't inferred anything about racial nationalism. (For the record, I am strongly, strongly, strongly opposed to racial nationalism of any kind. My family has a long history of being terrorized by the KKK and I find racists to be deplorable and disgusting. (For the record furthurly, I do not believe Trump is racist nor are 99% of his supporters.))
American nationalism is what brought this country together during the depression and world war II.

Except the image is somehow implying that people came together *because* they were white males. You know, because the actual line is "by a friend."

And you're way off. There was no "alliance" between Trump supporters and Sanders supporters. It just so happened that some Bernie supporters were Trump supporters all along, and when their favored of the two lost out, they went with the other "anti establishment" candidate.

Your poetic little story is cute and all, but that's not how it happened.

Now start answering questions when they're posed to you, instead of your typical selective listening.

You're dense bro.
I'm naturally a selective listener. Nothing I can do to fix it. Need to get me some obama bucks so a doctor can give me medication for my fictitious disorder.

 

[Irvine511]

It's only nazi if it becomes about race and I haven't inferred anything about racial nationalism. (For the record, I am strongly, strongly, strongly opposed to racial nationalism of any kind. My family has a long history of being terrorized by the KKK and I find racists to be deplorable and disgusting. (For the record furthurly, I do not believe Trump is racist nor are 99% of his supporters.))
American nationalism is what brought this country together during the depression and world war II.

then i dont think you understand the terms you use.

and it seems odd that you think racism is deplorable but you are celebrating the win of a racist candidate who scapegoated racial groups and has proposed racist policies to protect a segment of white america who wish to return the country to a time of white supremacy.

you may not be a racist, but you sure support racism.

 

[anitram]

bunch of suckers.

Paul Ryan has come out today saying he wants to get rid of Medicare (for private vouchers).

Enjoy Trump voters. It ain't the liberal coastal elites that need Medicare in the first place.

 

[Diemen]

You're dense bro.
I'm naturally a selective listener. Nothing I can do to fix it. Need to get me some obama bucks so a doctor can give me medication for my fictitious disorder.

Quit trolling.

 

[Oregoropa]

Soros collaborated with the Nazis as a child to save his own skin. Ratted out fellow Jews.


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[Diemen]

Are we really going down this whole Democrats-are-controlled-by-big-evil-Soros-and-the-big-evil-globalists conspiracy theory rabbit hole???

Really?

 

[Irvine511]

some interesting thoughts on racism, globalism, and Bernie Sanders:

The enraged focus on Clinton ignores the broader historical forces at work. This was clearly a change election, a wave that was bound to dispel pretty much any Democratic candidate in its path. For the first time in decades, stalwart Democratic states like Wisconsin and Pennsylvania went to the Republicans. It is all the more remarkable given that, unlike the last change election in 2008, we live in a time of relative peace and prosperity. The inequalities embedded in our economic system are undeniable. The U.S. continues to have a military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan and has abetted wars in Yemen and elsewhere. But in the past eight years under President Barack Obama, the U.S. has made steady progress toward full employment and has vastly reduced its military commitments abroad, which in the Bush era resulted in thousands of American deaths, hundreds of thousands of injuries, and untold psychological damage to military veterans. In the simplest sense, one candidate in 2016 promised to uphold that progress; the victor promised to reverse it.

This election was about a much greater phenomenon than Hillary Clinton. We know this is true because a nearly identical political undertow has gripped other Western democracies. In Britain, a nativist campaign preying on the fears of immigration and economic dislocation resulted in the Brexit, throwing the country into total chaos. In France, the right-wing National Front is the preeminent political force in the country, after spending decades on the fringes. Britain’s Nigel Farage and France’s Marine Le Pen and America’s Trump have all succeeded by sowing fear and hatred of the other. They lead movements that, at their core, are propelled by white revanchism, a raging against an increasingly globalized world that has threatened white power and diluted white identity.

But it is also becoming clear that the racist face of the resurgent right wing is, in important respects, superficial. To be clear, I find it almost impossible to forgive any person who voted for a blatant racist and misogynist like Trump. I agree with Slate’s Jamelle Bouie that, in attempting to sympathize with the plight of the downtrodden white who voted for Trump, we are in danger of perpetuating a false narrative of white innocence. And I think his election will set back racial progress by decades. However, the rise of the new right also has its roots in the financial crisis, a political earthquake whose deep, radiating repercussions didn’t quite register until Trump’s election. This is a response to what is seen as a corrupt order, one that perpetuates the power of a global elite at the expense of common people. It encompasses Republicans and Democrats, New Labourites and Tories, a Socialist like Francois Hollande and a conservative like Nicolas Sarkozy. It is a protest against liberal democracy as we know it, and it is no surprise that these grievances have found outlet in vulgar authoritarians whose core supporters want to blow up the system.

[...]

What is to be done? In a prescient essay for The New Republic published before the election, the liberal academic K. Sabeel Rahman argued that the Democratic Party must absorb and channel the populist anger that has exploded to the surface. Crucially, he argued that this populism must be wedded to a program of inclusion, noting progressives’ long history of excluding minority groups from initiatives to protect workers and make the economic system fairer. The first step toward a new Democratic Party is to cut off its corporate wing, which adds no votes and undermines the party’s whole reason for existence: standing up for common men and women. This will hurt the party’s fundraising, but what good did Clinton’s fundraising prowess do against Trump?

Whether the party can combine its identitarian minority politics with an economic populism that includes aggrieved whites remains to be seen. One reason the Sandersistas fail to convince is that, while white working class voters may rage against corruption in D.C., it’s unclear they want its replacement to be socialism. There is the danger of veering so far left that the party turns into a Jeremy Corbyn–style rump party that has no chance of winning national elections. The Democratic politician who comes closest to straddling these two poles is Elizabeth Warren, but otherwise the bench is quite barren.

https://newrepublic.com/article/138635/dont-blame-hillary-clinton

 

[zuma]

he certainly came across reaaaaaally strange after winning - shellshocked? bit like Boris immediately after Brexit... political commentators over here were positively smirking about his (temporary?) personality transformation, even using the word "volte-face" - all just so odd... is he playing games or is he out of his depth?

I'm convinced he didn't actually want this. It's easy to sit on the sidelines and say everything sucks and Washington is corrupt. Whole other thing to actually do something. I'm sure he wants his lifestyle in his golden penthouse surrounded by the rich and famous, glamorous parties, booze and coke, etc. He wants to get even richer and stir up the masses not actually put in the work. Bye bye trump tower, won't see the inside of that for a few years and bye bye phone and twitter and trump TV, etc etc

Same in Europe, few of these extremist populist right wing parties actually have any real power yet (thank god) but they'd be similarly out of their depth. Speaking of the global phenomenon, this is not terrifying at all: http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/11179774?

 

[DaveC]

It's only nazi if it becomes about race and I haven't inferred anything about racial nationalism. (For the record, I am strongly, strongly, strongly opposed to racial nationalism of any kind. My family has a long history of being terrorized by the KKK and I find racists to be deplorable and disgusting. (For the record furthurly, I do not believe Trump is racist nor are 99% of his supporters.))
American nationalism is what brought this country together during the depression and world war II.

you are embarrassingly ignorant on the subject of nationalism and its historical effects.

 

[ntalwar]

(For the record furthurly, I do not believe Trump is racist nor are 99% of his supporters.))

I haven't seen any tweets from Trump calling for an end to the racial harassment or hate crimes that have taken place in the past couple of days.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

You're dense bro.
I'm naturally a selective listener.

We know you are, "bro." We all have to try to interact with you. It doesn't work.

 

[mama cass]

best article i've seen so far - get ready for the fightback, suckers

https://medium.com/@alexyoung_59363/the-pendulum-swings-both-ways-61d50f6608d9#.nhoyug65b

The Pendulum Swings Both Ways

Not that anyone gives a shit, well, today maybe they do, but I’ve spent the last several hours thinking about what just happened. Some of you know that I am a student of this stuff, studied it extensively in college, and try to read and inform myself each day about all things political/historical. Doesn’t make me smarter than your average bear, but it’s definitely something I love and perhaps can provide a slightly informed $.02. Oh, and I also don’t find any value in feeling sorry for ourselves. That’s pointless and won’t help us navigate either the short-term or the long-term challenges that now face us. Recriminations and blame are largely useless. Coulda, woulda, shoulda doesn’t move the world forward one inch. It’s done. Now what?
So, with that in mind, I wake up this morning with quite a determined point of view and also some thoughts about last night that might buttress all of us on the Left and serve as a battle plan going forward. I apologize in advance for some of the pithy clichés that follow:
1. It’s not four years, it’s two years. That’s what we are playing for. In 2 years, we take back the Congress, just like the GOP did in 1994 and 2010. The essential truth about American politics is that people are wary of one party having too much control. It tends to mobilize the other side. This shit now gets real. And gets local. Street by street. District by district. Legislature by legislature. We take it back. We on the Left have largely ignored the off-year elections. We show up only for the big game. And, as a result, we’ve gotten gerrymandered out of power. It’s been a death by a thousand cuts. Time to wake up.
2. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. I’ve read a lot of hand wringing this morning about all the things that are now sure to be lost — Obamacare, LGBT rights, the EPA etc. Those are very real possibilities and should scare us all. But that assumes the GOP is one solid unit that can stay on point and won’t get greedy. They aren’t and they won’t. I promise. No party ever is. Remember in 2008 when the Dems had the House, almost 60 votes in the Senate and won the White House by 10m votes? We BARELY got Obamacare, a watered-down bailout and a mild Dodd-Frank. That’s it. We didn’t get some massive progressive agenda passed. Why? Because not only can the opposition block a lot, but also because of divisions within our own wing. Everyone gets drunk with the possibilities of all this power and has this endless Christmas list of shit they want to get done first. It leads to infighting, over-reaching and power-grabs. You think that isn’t going to happen with Trump-Ryan-McConnell? They could barely stand each other before. Our system is built purposely to withstand this kind of binge eating. I know what people will say — what about Bush-Cheney 2000? We got fooled in 2000 because everything was still hunky-dory. And then 9/11 happened. And Cheney and Rove were shrewd insiders who knew how to work the system. These guys aren’t that. And we won’t let that happen this time.
3. The best offense is a great defense. Remember how disgusted we all were when Mitch McConnell said on the eve of the first Obama term that he was going to make sure that nothing Obama proposed got passed, no matter what? Well, thanks, Mitch, you’ve just handed us the playbook. And, we have a great Defensive Coordinator in Chuck Schumer to run it. He ain’t Harry Reid — he’s a tough New Yorker. He now needs to become the Buddy Ryan of our 46 Defense. NOTHING gets passed. You need 60 votes to get anything through the Senate, including Supreme Court nominees. Good luck, fucktards. Payback is a bitch. Sorry, KKK and angry, white dudes — no soup for you. Remember what I said in #’s 1 and 2 — we can play defense for the next 2 years easily. I don’t care if we have to hook Ruth Bader Ginsburg up to a fucking iron lung and filibuster every court nominee — we do it. The only thing we on the Left have to let go of is this notion of being “fair”. That’s what always gets us in trouble. You don’t have to play nicely with the other side. They have shown that. We have to lose that koombayah, let’s all get along, we are all in this together pleasantness. Tune out all the impending bitching from the Trumpettes. The next 2 years is the goal line stand to end all goal line stands. Everything you believe in is on the line. To quote Jean Luc Picard, THIS far, NO further.
4. Our bench is DEEP. Let’s be honest, Hillary was a pioneering candidate. But she has her flaws. That’s no excuse for last night but let’s not delude ourselves in thinking she was ever a slam-dunk. She had baggage and exploitable weaknesses. Bernie proved that in the primaries. That said, we have an exciting and deep bench — Elizabeth, Bernie, Cory, Michelle, Gavin, Kamala etc. These are all incredibly inspiring Presidential hopefuls for the next cycle. All can easily beat Trump. The GOP has a withered, old bench. Did any of the 17 on their debate stage scare you? Me, neither. Get excited for our future. It’s there.
5. We have to return to our base. This is my biggest takeaway from last night. I’ve been reading a lot of comments from our side about how dumb Americans are and how they are all racists and misogynists. It’s all said in the most condescending tone. While some of that may be true, we need to lose that. To be frank, we on the left have forgotten a large chunk of our base — white, working class people. Look at the numbers. The same amount of Republicans showed up last night as in 2008 and 2012 — about 59 million. But, on the left, 5m fewer voters than 2012 and 10m fewer than in 2008 showed up. We lost the entire rust belt (Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, Pennsylvania). Let that sink in. States we EASILY won in 2008 and 2012. It’s not because the racists and pussy grabbers suddenly showed up. There wasn’t some great turnout on their side — they got the EXACT same votes they always have. Think about it — we lost these states by about 600,000 votes total. That’s it. OUR side in these states didn’t show up. That’s the simple truth. And, to be clear, they didn’t show up because we had nothing for them. We really need to be introspective at this point and acknowledge that. Bernie wasn’t wrong about this. Michael Moore wasn’t wrong about this. Our party was built on the backs of working class people. We got outflanked and took our base for granted. We all have fears. One of the most primal is putting bread on the table and having a roof over our heads. What did we have to allay those anxieties? In the absence of a real plan that addressed what these voters were feeling, hatred and division was allowed to fill the void.
Throughout history, that’s what always happens. For all our high-mindedness in the progressive enclaves of the coasts, we have forgotten that for most people it’s a lot more basic. They are worried about their basic survival. Jobs. Bills. Medical care. Retirement. We are in real danger of becoming an elitist party. We have all these wonderful, high-minded ideals about this progressive utopia but have lost touch with the real, everyday concerns of the core of our party. Just being the anti-Trump wasn’t enough and our base stayed home. We talk about the working class in really condescending ways and have lost touch with them, to our peril. As we learned in 1992 and 2008 (our biggest triumphs), it’s about the economy, stupid. Those are the solutions our base wants first from us. We take care of that and we’ll get all our progressive stuff with it. We need a real plan and message that genuinely appeals to both their hopes and fears. A tangible plan to strengthen unions and create jobs in those communities. A plan to assuage their fears of being left behind. And change our entire tone when talking about our base. The middle of this country is hurting and stayed home. We need to get them excited again. Let’s win their votes back.
6. The emperor has no clothes. Trump is a moron. His team are morons. If you think he and his team knows how to govern, I’ve got a Trump property in Atlantic City to sell you. They are petty and small. And I am confident the knives from all sides will now come out. The media isn’t going to play nice with them. They know they got fooled, too. Governing takes real talent. Hell, it’s going to take Trump 3 weeks just to find the john. That doesn’t mean to underestimate him. That’s a mistake. But don’t overestimate him/them either. It takes a lot of skill to get things done in Washington. It also takes a real plan. We know he doesn’t have either. And we have to be BRUTAL in pointing that out. All of these people who he deluded into thinking he has a plan will see the truth if we make them.
7. Keep calm and carry on. The sun came up this morning. Life does go on. Keep this in perspective. We have survived worse. We really have. This loss sucks. It does. We didn’t do enough and our worst nightmare came true. Don’t forget this pain. Don’t lose it. It’s now fuel. Every. Fucking. Day.
To those who voted for Trump, I will not belittle you or demean you. As I‘ve said, I feel our side has become a little too condescending and elitist. I, too, am guilty of that. I will only ask that you look at the people in your life that your new President has openly denigrated — women, gays, African-Americans, Latinos, Muslims, immigrants, the sick, etc. — and tell them openly that you don’t care about them at all. That’s what you said with your vote yesterday. You can delude yourself that you didn’t but you did. Don’t now be bashful. Own that ugliness and selfishness and fear. Own your vote. Enjoy this for a moment. Governing is hard. And we are no longer going to clean up your messes.
The pendulum swings both ways.
It always has. Remember that. Have confidence in it. Don’t hang your head. We learn much more from our defeats than from our victories. We now have a goal. I, for one, am galvanized in a way I didn’t realize until this morning. The fight is on.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

you are embarrassingly ignorant on the subject of nationalism and its historical effects.

It's why he and his fellow trumpeters don't understand and refuse to respond to their unguided 'patriotic' nature.

 

[ntalwar]

Part of Senator Reid's statement:

White nationalists, Vladimir Putin and ISIS are celebrating Donald Trump’s victory, while innocent, law-abiding Americans are wracked with fear – especially African Americans, Hispanic Americans, Muslim Americans, LGBT Americans and Asian Americans. Watching white nationalists celebrate while innocent Americans cry tears of fear does not feel like America.

U.S. Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid >> Reid Statement on the Election of Donald Trump

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Are we really going down this whole Democrats-are-controlled-by-big-evil-Soros-and-the-big-evil-globalists conspiracy theory rabbit hole???

Really?

Of course.

We just elected a man who's going to make Steve Bannon chief of staff. What do you expect?

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Oh look, a person who believes in conversion therapy has now taken over the transition team.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

This feels like the narrative of Harry Potter.

Don Riddle aka Lord Voldenord ascends back to power. All of his death eaters who were working behind the scenes finally came out and showed their true colors. Their intention: to rid the United States of the non-wizamericans. Most typically despise the first generation wizamericans, and some have publicly declared they should have no right to witchcraft and wizardry like the pure bloods. Coincidentally, one of Don Riddle's own parents wasn't even pure blood. Anyways, this is around the part where Don's questionable faith in Severus Snapaulryan puts Snapaulryan on the line to join him full force and urge congress to build the wall. If he doesn't, he will no longer be speaker of the house. There's Barron Malfoy. Soon to be Melanatrix L'estranged. And who could forget our future token Secretary of State... someone we once thought was a nuisance but now legitimately fear for her idiocy... Dolorah Umbralin.

 

[anitram]

best article i've seen so far - get ready for the fightback, suckers

Unfortunately it really doesn't quite work that way.

There is zero chance the Democrats take Congress in 2018. The Republicans have gerrymandered it such that this is impossible. Until the 2020 census and beyond, Congress is essentially lost. Worse yet, almost all of the Senators up for re-election in 2018 are Democrats.

The Dems have the advantage of having 4 years to regroup and having to go through possibly painful primaries in 2018 to figure out what will be the soul of the party. The Republicans will own every single inaction and failure in 4 years, and on top of that almost all the Senators up for re-election will be Republican and on top of that Democrats tend to do better down ballot in a Presidential election year. So really 2020 is the earliest you can have any sort of meaningful legislative change/impact.