Trump General Discussion

[anitram]

He will build the wall and the illegals will go. Bring back jobs for americans. Bring back jobs to our inner cities. the african american community is suffering and the system is rigged against them. we're gonna bring back our factories and frack baby frack. will create millions of wonderful jobs for the lower and middle class especially. our lower class is a mess and our poverty rates are higher since they've been since the depression.

This delusion is stunning. I want everyone here to copy and save this somewhere so we can ask bobsaget how he feels about the "progress" made in 4 years.

1. He will NOT build the wall. There is no money for it, the scope of the project would require world leading (American and not) companies to take on immense risk to build this and simply they will not attach their name to this. Anybody who thinks that public construction companies who answer to shareholders on the stock market are going to plaster their names on a Mexican wall is completely off their rocker.

2. Your factories are not coming back. We are living in an era of automation and nobody is going to pay you to be 1/100th as efficient and productive as a robot. Who also doesn't need healthcare, days off, training, breaks, sleep or labour laws. Even for those of you seemingly unable to understand the implications of bringing factories back (like the subsequent economic shock and rise in prices such that you'd afford nothing) should be able to comprehend the concept of automation. Or so I thought, but I guess not.

3. Frack, baby, frack. This is not an insane thought but it goes squarely against the "war on coal" ending on Day 1. Coal mining is done. You'll need to explain this to your people as they appear confused.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

This. I had to explain this to my mom yesterday, because she can't understand why I'm letting politics come between family. It's *not* politics. I have *never* had a politician I wanted to see win the election do so. Not since I started paying attention back in 2000. I have sat quietly by, for the most part and just kept waiting for next time and hoping I would one day see the president that I voted for be elected.



But this. This is something completely and wholly different. It's terrifying to me, and it makes it hard for me to look at people the same way, because there's ONE big wrench in the works when people tell me, "Just because I voted for him doesn't mean I share his beliefs" and it's this:

How did he get past the primaries then? Where were you then if you knew he was such a bad candidate and a con-man? Where were you to prevent this? You didn't do your job, and now we have this. So, thanks.



And furthermore, again, you didn't HAVE to vote for him. You could've easily voted straight party all the way and then either refrained from voting for POTUS or you could've voted 3rd party. Still would possibly have gained control of congress without associating yourself with someone so...so...heinous.







These are all very fair points. It's good to make people feel valued and important and safe.



But look, shit like this?



https://i.redd.it/oo0p1jit6xwx.png



https://i.reddituploads.com/2934495ac67641219e3fe77ec6f54640?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&



http://i.imgur.com/3pVwk8F.png



https://i.reddituploads.com/cd80c40149444f2b8fd931127cbf9902?fit=max&h=1536&w=1536&



https://www.reddit.com/r/TumblrInAction/comments/5c83xv/saw_this_on_my_way_to_class/



I can understand people getting frustrated. And that's only the first 5 posts on the front page of r/TumblrnAction.



There has to be a way to find a middle ground between human decency and the PC culture.

Trump is an extremely extreme case, but I hope everyone revisits the idea of what a third party vote is.

And say what you want about Gary Johnson, I'm willing to bet anyone who loathes Trump would have taken him over Trump.

This was the prime election for people to rally behind a third party. It didn't happen. It's so disappointing.

 

[anitram]

Having trouble linking to something.

In meantime in respect of 3rd parties, the issue in this election was that they were headed by morons.

If Bloomberg had run, knowing what we know now, maybe would have been the best outcome. I understand why he chose not to run, but it's a shame.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Having trouble linking...

If it's an image, right click the image and click "go to image address..."

Make sure the image address ends in an image file extension. .jpg, .gif, .png, etc. etc.

 

[bobsaget77]

the largest professional civil engineering guild in north america has already promised that any engineering firm that designs this wall will be immediately discredited due to ethical concerns.

you can't get work, at all, without being accredited, because it's illegal to hire an unapproved engineering firm. it's especially illegal for the united states federal government to hire an unlicensed engineering firm for a federally funded project.

the only firms that are large enough to properly design and execute something of this scale (a 70-100 foot along a two thousand foot mile border in some of the most inaccessible areas of the country, requiring the construction of entire cities from scratch in the middle of the desert to house and support the workers) are in the top five to ten civil engineering firms on earth.

none of those firms are going to risk their accreditation, and by extension their entire businesses, on building this wall that is impossible to build, because:

- to build it would require at a minimum (ie for the wall itself, not counting worker cities or roads) the entire concrete output of the united states for one entire year to be redirected to this project, which would create an acute shortage of concrete for nearly every single building project in america for at least one year. surely that will do wonders for the economy.

- trump has eight years starting in january to, from scratch, design this wall, go through every legal hoop blocking construction (there are reservations this thing would go through - see standing rock), including an inevitable SCOTUS challenge, and then build literally two thousand miles of this damn thing in the middle of nowhere. the federal government can barely build a park or an office building in eight years, so a project of this magnitude is going to require a literal lifetime of staunch republican wall supporters.

- "the israeli wall!" which is at it max planned length 25% of the length of the us-mexico border, never more than a few miles away from a major city (LOLOLOLOL), and still is only barely halfway finished after 15 years?

so, all that being said, what makes you so sure this wall is going up, ever, at all?

We will build the wall.

I have only read to page 7 on this thread ,so I thought I better say this before the second thread goes up.



I did not vote for Bush or his son. I did not vote for Clinton. I did not vote for Obama.



But once they were elected, I recognized them as president. When I felt they were right, I applauded them. When I felt they were wrong, I was critical.



I did vote for Trump.



All I am saying is give Trump a chance.

Right on bro. You're a patriot.

 

[bono_212]

Having trouble linking to something.

In meantime in respect of 3rd parties, the issue in this election was that they were headed by morons.

If Bloomberg had run, knowing what we know now, maybe would have been the best outcome. I understand why he chose not to run, but it's a shame.

Even so. the thing is, I can respect the decision. That's just where I come from on this topic. Vote for who you think is right. But as I always say after an election, maybe THIS will be the one where 3rd or even 4th party voting becomes the norm.

You want increased voter turnout? Make all votes equal, make all votes count, and let us have more people to choose from. This 270 shit has to go.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

We will build the wall.





Right on bro. You're a patriot.

In regards to your second comment: what does it mean to be a patriot?

 

[DaveC]

DaveC - The Manhattan project took 3 years. We got to the moon in ten.

those are scientific ventures, not construction projects. not even remotely comparable.

The red tape you talk about exists because of government. Trump can take a big pair of scissors to the system. Lawsuits and unfriendly judges might slow him down.

i said nothing about "red tape" or bureaucracy. i said the wall is literally un-designable. point blank. trump can't do shit about professional engineering licensing boards. it's never happening. you were lied to and you fell for it.

We will build the wall.

and taylor swift is gonna come over to my place later for a cocaine orgy.

 

[anitram]

Even so. the thing is, I can respect the decision. That's just where I come from on this topic. Vote for who you think is right. But as I always say after an election, maybe THIS will be the one where 3rd or even 4th party voting becomes the norm.

You want increased voter turnout? Make all votes equal, make all votes count, and let us have more people to choose from. This 270 shit has to go.

Oh yeah, I don't fault any of them for voting 3rd party. I don't fault Nader voters either. It's not their fault that Gore wasn't convincing and couldn't win his own state. I think that it's a huge cop out to blame them for the outcome.

I just wish that for once the third party was actually a viable choice and not headed by people who are giant caricatures.

 

[bono_212]

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Even so. the thing is, I can respect the decision. That's just where I come from on this topic. Vote for who you think is right. But as I always say after an election, maybe THIS will be the one where 3rd or even 4th party voting becomes the norm.



You want increased voter turnout? Make all votes equal, make all votes count, and let us have more people to choose from. This 270 shit has to go.

Here's the thing though. You think it makes you equal. It doesn't.

The result of doing away with the electoral college is a similar problem to why Trump was elected. Voters who are taken for granted. Make it a full on popular vote... see how many campaigns leave the population dense areas where the majority of their constituency exists. For the democrats you're talking about more and more and more campaigns in California and New York pushing voter turnout. For republicans you're talking about suburban areas and conservative cities in Texas and the Bible Belt. You literally start to neglect places more that are already neglected enough.

A better result would be to *make the popular vote count for something.* Give it a delegate value. Give some incentive.

 

[anitram]

i said nothing about "red tape" or bureaucracy. i said the wall is literally un-designable. point blank. trump can't do shit about professional engineering licensing boards. it's never happening. you were lied to and you fell for it.

Aside from the engineering difficulties, the expense and the construction nightmare, the bottom line which only deep seems to comprehend is that Trump himself actually doesn't want to build the wall. Now deep has to twist himself into a pretzel to explain away how Trump lied, but at least he gets it. These other fellas are gonna have a rude awakening.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Aside from the engineering difficulties, the expense and the construction nightmare, the bottom line which only deep seems to comprehend is that Trump himself actually doesn't want to build the wall. Now deep has to twist himself into a pretzel to explain away how Trump lied, but at least he gets it. These other fellas are gonna have a rude awakening.

I wouldn't call the wall "undesignable." Just insanely expensive. Like, ridiculously, expensive. Several tens of billions of dollars expensive.

But fuck the engineering. If you want to shit on this stupid notion from a logical perspective, just talk about how inefficient a wall is for curbing illegal immigration.

Small side note: id be careful grouping deep with the other trump supporters. Deep is... special.

 

[bono_212]

Oh yeah, I don't fault any of them for voting 3rd party. I don't fault Nader voters either. It's not their fault that Gore wasn't convincing and couldn't win his own state. I think that it's a huge cop out to blame them for the outcome.

I just wish that for once the third party was actually a viable choice and not headed by people who are giant caricatures.

Couldn't agree more. As you may recall, there was a time earlier in this cycle where I wasn't as enthused about Hillary Clinton as I had been back in 2008. I was thinking of voting for Stein again, who I had voted for in 2012, but then people in here really opened my eyes to how useless a candidate she is, regardless of how much our views may align. That got me to look more into Clinton's policies this time around and I realized that once you got past the scandals and looked at the facts/issues, she was the same candidate as 2008, but possibly even better, so I was fully and irrevocably on board.

But the point is, having that third option, or feeling like I did helped me make a more critical and thoughtful choice..

 

[bono_212]

Here's the thing though. You think it makes you equal. It doesn't.

The result of doing away with the electoral college is a similar problem to why Trump was elected. Voters who are taken for granted. Make it a full on popular vote... see how many campaigns leave the population dense areas where the majority of their constituency exists. For the democrats you're talking about more and more and more campaigns in California and New York pushing voter turnout. For republicans you're talking about suburban areas and conservative cities in Texas and the Bible Belt. You literally start to neglect places more that are already neglected enough.

A better result would be to *make the popular vote count for something.* Give it a delegate value. Give some incentive.

That's one theory of what would happen, yes, but think for a second: If you are a Republican living in southern California, do you feel like your vote counts? Do you feel enthused about voting? Do you see any point in checking out the issues and forming an opinion? No. Because your vote doesn't matter.

Now, what if you're a democrat living in Mississippi. Do YOU care about the election? Do YOU care about voting? Do YOU feel like you matter? Again, no, because you don't! Your vote doesn't count in a state that's predominantly red or blue.

And that's just ONE part of the problem. Californians and New Yorkers? Their votes don't count. Not in the way a vote in North Dakota does. How is that a democratic system?

49% of people didn't vote in this election. How many of those people do you think would've voted if they thought their voices would actually be heard?

 

[BoMac]

You know the old saying "be careful what you wish for..."

Build a wall, fine. Deport all 11 million illegals, sure. But you better be ready for the economic fallout, because it's these people that keep a large part of the economy going by doing jobs that no one else wants. Are you going to find millions of people to do this backbreaking work at the measly salary they're currently getting? I don't think so. Businesses will have to shut down because they can't find workers.

And I realize it's an exploitative system, but that's the reality. I wish it weren't so.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

That's one theory of what would happen, yes, but think for a second: If you are a Republican living in southern California, do you feel like your vote counts? Do you feel enthused about voting? Do you see any point in checking out the issues and forming an opinion? No. Because your vote doesn't matter.



Now, what if you're a democrat living in Mississippi. Do YOU care about the election? Do YOU care about voting? Do YOU feel like you matter? Again, no, because you don't! Your vote doesn't count in a state that's predominantly red or blue.



And that's just ONE part of the problem. Californians and New Yorkers? Their votes don't count. Not in the way a vote in North Dakota does. How is that a democratic system?



49% of people didn't vote in this election. How many of those people do you think would've voted if they thought their voices would actually be heard?

Well there's one thing for sure: winner take all in each state is a bad idea. Because yes, you turn away voters in traditionally liberal or conservative states.

I'm just saying don't shoot for a fully popular vote, because you're basically encouraging the parties to stay where the funds flow. Places like California don't see campaign rallies right now. You'll just reverse this and make places like North Dakota not see any campaign rallies. It's logistically not worth going to ND when you can just go to every large population city in California and simultaneously fundraise.

They'd have their voices heard, but they'd be a lot angrier. We literally just experienced this with disaffected rust belters.

Proportion state population votes. Make it half the value or something. But we need an all encompassing system that doesn't get people left behind.

 

[Hewson]

In regards to your second comment: what does it mean to be a patriot?

Spoiler

Dominate the AF C east for 2 straight decades and win multiple Superb Owls.

Sorry, couldn't resist

 

[Mrs. Garrison]

Spoiler

Dominate the AF C east for 2 straight decades and win multiple Superb Owls.

Sorry, couldn't resist

well played

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Spoiler

Dominate the AF C east for 2 straight decades and win multiple Superb Owls.

Sorry, couldn't resist

Well no, it's a valid point. Since we know he won't respond, I'll take this and work with it.

Being a "patriot" is like cheering for a fucking sports team, where you support it through thick and thin. Your government is not a sports team. You should support it when it does the right thing, and reject it when it does the wrong thing. Being a "patriot" is fucking stupid. Idolism and nationalism are the incendiary devices of many of the world's historical problems.

 

[ntalwar]

Because the other candidate couldn't do what they think Trump will, regardless of his shit, Trump means change.

Clinton is more of the same. Biden is more of the same. Anyone the left could have thrown up loses.

I'm coming around to the fact that I still think he loses to Trump, our best chance may have been that Socialist from Vermont.

Unfortunately the Dems ignored Michael Moore (of Michigan), who predicted a Trump win in July and says Sanders would have won. They also ignored the advice of Rep. Dingell of Michigan to campaign more in the rust belt. Many of the rust belt Trump voters switched from Obama or Sanders. 6-7 million Dem. voters stayed home versus 2012 as well.

 

[Hewson]

49% of people didn't vote in this election. How many of those people do you think would've voted if they thought their voices would actually be heard?

Sadly I don't think the turnout would have been significantly different regardless of how presidential votes are tallied.

Its not like we regularly see 75-80% turnout and this year was an extreme outlier.

Too many folks are just apathetic about voting in general.

I mean I live in MA, my POTUS vote certainly "didn't matter" from an electoral college viewpoint. But there were local elections and 4 ballot questions to vote on, so no reason to skip voting, yet 43% of the registered voters in the nation opted to do so.
Its a problem with our society far more than with the electoral college.

 

[Oregoropa]

I think what the American people and Trump find inexcusable is the catch and release problem we have with criminal aliens. We have people commiting crimes deported and then re-entering the country or they are release back into the US ahead of our citizens doing a stretch for something less egregious.

Wall aside. Trump wants to hire more border agents. Like I said the wall is a 21st century barrier of protection aerial, seismic, sensory. I believe there will be a physical on 65% of the border within his first few years. The rudimentary paneling can be installed at multiple locations and connect at a rate much much faster than the inter-continental railroad and only took a few years at break neck pace.

Bottom line the American people want deterrence from bad actors. The sensory and physical wall will accomplish this goal. Trump is a compassionate person. He has stated criminal aliens are the ones he is targeting first. He will probably have a softer approach when it comes to hard working families here. The government chose to selectively enforce immigration law for 30 plus years. At that point it is a green light to come in. I don't believe the fear over deportation squads going door to door. With Trump there will be no amnesty, but eventually they will have to apply the normal way.

He hasn't been super specific on what happens. Some may have to leave and then reapply. Those with the strongest roots and seniority may be given leeway to stay while they wait for the official processing. Agricultural Workers will officially be on the books.

Gone are the days of disorganization and turning the other way.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

 

[gump]

Good morning, people. The stink doesn't go away, does it. I don't think there are 5 stages of grief here, just one: anger.

 

[mama cass]

he certainly came across reaaaaaally strange after winning - shellshocked? bit like Boris immediately after Brexit... political commentators over here were positively smirking about his (temporary?) personality transformation, even using the word "volte-face" - all just so odd... is he playing games or is he out of his depth?

 

[Oregoropa]

Speaking of memes. This is my favorite nugget from the Trump side.


Saw an article in U.K. Press that said the leaks about the rigging of the game against Bernie may have lost Clinton critical votes in Michigan and Wisconsin


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

 

[ntalwar]

2. Your factories are not coming back. We are living in an era of automation and nobody is going to pay you to be 1/100th as efficient and productive as a robot. Who also doesn't need healthcare, days off, training, breaks, sleep or labour laws. Even for those of you seemingly unable to understand the implications of bringing factories back (like the subsequent economic shock and rise in prices such that you'd afford nothing) should be able to comprehend the concept of automation. Or so I thought, but I guess not.

3. Frack, baby, frack. This is not an insane thought but it goes squarely against the "war on coal" ending on Day 1. Coal mining is done. You'll need to explain this to your people as they appear confused.

Robots also don't pay taxes or vote. I can see the Rust Belt becoming the new Iowa (where politicians praise the idea of burning corn to power cars). They may start to denounce or regulate automation. Fossil fuels may have the same political baggage.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

I don't get it.

 

[Oregoropa]

I don't get it.

Some Bernie folks switched to Trump because they had similar stances on trade and were disgusted by the DNC treatment of Bernie shown in Wikileaks.

Lampoons the notion that Trump supporters are white males.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

 

[LuckyNumber7]

Some Bernie folks switched to Trump because they had similar stances on trade and were disgusted by the DNC treatment of Bernie shown in Wikileaks.

Lampoons the notion that Trump supporters are white males.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

They're just short fat white males? I feel like whoever made this doesn't know the premise of lord of the rings.