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Old 11-16-2016, 02:28 PM   #861
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lol, remember this racist super bowl ad?



this guy is on the Trump transition team and rumored to be up for CIA director.
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:29 PM   #862
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Trump General Discussion

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Originally Posted by DaveC View Post
this exactly was the point i was trying to make.

smart people fight against stupid ideas. stupid people fight against stupid people.



Don't demonize ignorant people, challenge their ideas.
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:39 PM   #863
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Considering all the protests going on and the entire hostile environment against him, I don't know how bad this is going to get after he takes office in January.
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:39 PM   #864
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
lol, remember this racist super bowl ad?



this guy is on the Trump transition team and rumored to be up for CIA director.

Are we sure these aren't what Trump considers *qualifications*?

This all is beginning to seem like a joke again.
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:41 PM   #865
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Don't demonize ignorant people, challenge their ideas.
I'd love to challenge ideas, but bringing it up gets me, "grow up, your team lost, get over it."

Huzzah. Teams! Sports! Wooo!
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:42 PM   #866
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Considering all the protests going on and the entire hostile environment against him, I don't know how bad this is going to get after he takes office in January.

As long as he's making stupid decisions and embarrassing the country, I hope it goes on for four years. Keep the pressure on and his approval rating in the tank.
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:45 PM   #867
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Trump General Discussion

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I'd love to challenge ideas, but bringing it up gets me, "grow up, your team lost, get over it."

Huzzah. Teams! Sports! Wooo!
After a certain point, some people are just a waste of time and need to be ignored. That will always be the case. Trump's destructive presidency will change their mind more than my words will.
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:46 PM   #868
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I shudder to think of what a wounded Trump presidency might bring on.
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:46 PM   #869
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I'd love to challenge ideas, but bringing it up gets me, "grow up, your team lost, get over it."

Huzzah. Teams! Sports! Wooo!

Lol you should see the extended family friend (ie fuck him I don't care about him) I'm picking at on Facebook who suggested "if you don't like the results, leave."
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:49 PM   #870
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I shudder to think of what a wounded Trump presidency might bring on.

god save us all should there be a major terrorist attack.
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:51 PM   #871
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As long as he's making stupid decisions and embarrassing the country, I hope it goes on for four years. Keep the pressure on and his approval rating in the tank.
What if he gets impeached though?

Impeached in the sense of unfaithfulness towards Melania by fucking another Russian supermodel. Will the world go crazy about that? Just like they did with Clinton and Monica Lewinsky?

Hopefully being "Trump" won't save him from this, but it could happen.
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:54 PM   #872
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To be fair, Clinton was impeached because he lied under oath about it, not because he was naughty.

... in other words, Trump will probably be impeached on day 2, considering lies fly out of his mouth almost every time he opens it.

Maybe he'll be impeached because of something he says on Twitter, since clearly no one will be able to take that shit away from him, not even out of his cold, dead hands.


(I obviously can't truly wish for his impeachment though, because Mike Pence.)
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Old 11-16-2016, 02:55 PM   #873
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Trump General Discussion

There was this relatively forgotten episode of the Simpsons called Bart's Inner Child. The plot was that this self-help guru pushed the idea that everyone should say what they feel 100% of the time without consequence and that Bart was the ideal human being because he exemplified that quality. Everything went into disarray, of course, because that philosophy is fucking stupid.

Trump has always reminded me of that character. There is a portion of Trump's voting bloc that found his lack of filter and "anti-PC" rhetoric to be very appealing in the face of increasing encouragement towards kindness and inclusion by "the left." That was a deciding factor for them.

So when you see Trump supporters shooting their mouths off and they respond to criticism with "deal with your loss or get out," you know exactly who you're talking to. These aren't the same as the "give the guy a chance" people or the "Trump is going to make America great again" people. They just don't want their ideas challenged and are resentful that it's still happening even after their hero has been elected.
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Old 11-16-2016, 03:05 PM   #874
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But why can it not also be true that at some point if you as an individual/voter behave in a way as to contribute to oppression EVEN IF you yourself may be doing so for other reasons may lead others to conclude that at worst you are a racist and at best you are indifferent to racism? Maybe it's not productive to scream it in people's face and it almost certainly won't have them change their approach, but if people want to look at such a person and think, ya know what, maybe they are racist, even a little, then I don't see that as necessarily way out there.
I agree with everything you said in your post (and the previous one) , and this fragment in particular is really key.

The indifference to -isms, whichever way one wants to call it, is a serious problem. And it points to an underlying difficulty in the way this country approaches equality issues. Perhaps due to the history of seggregation in the South, racism, sexism and xenophobia are generally seen in terms of overt actions - the hateful message left on the wall, the denial of voting rights to minorities, etc. All of these are, obviously, important aspects of the problem that need to be combatted.

But there is a deeply disturbing tendency in the US (I'm sure it exists in other places, but from my experience it is more prevalent here) to overlook structural aspects of racism, or all non-overtly behavior that contributes to exclusion of minorities or women. You can only be racist if you engage in a racist action, but not if you are part of a broader structure that is itself racist. Think of the criminal justice system: practices such as broken windows policing or stop and frisk have clear racial implications. They build on existing biases, but do not necessarily require an overtly racist action by the police officer. Does that mean there is no racism involved? Obviously, I don't think so.

This is why, I think, the media has such trouble with covering race-related issues (or other -isms). Steven Bannon is not directly called a racist, he's "seen by critics" as a racist. And that's for a guy that edited a white supremacist and anti-semitic platform. Trump's statements were labelled as controversial, not racist or sexist.

In my mind, the way forward is to change the narrative from racism as a binary act - you are either racist or you are not - to a more nuanced understanding that recognizes that we are all racist/sexist/xenophobic to some extent, while unequivocally asserting our obligation to fight these phenomena. Biases are a part of each individual and society, and recognizing such biases is the first step to eliminating them.
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Old 11-16-2016, 03:54 PM   #875
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Originally Posted by corianderstem View Post
To be fair, Clinton was impeached because he lied under oath about it, not because he was naughty.

... in other words, Trump will probably be impeached on day 2, considering lies fly out of his mouth almost every time he opens it.

Maybe he'll be impeached because of something he says on Twitter, since clearly no one will be able to take that shit away from him, not even out of his cold, dead hands.


(I obviously can't truly wish for his impeachment though, because Mike Pence.)
Lying on Twitter isn't illegal. Lying under oath is. Clinton was impeached because he allegedly perjured himself in a civil trial. I can certainly see Trump lying under oath in his upcoming fraud trial, but it will probably end up getting settled out of court.
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Old 11-16-2016, 04:07 PM   #876
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Well he pushed the trial it to after the inauguration, when he'd "have more free time," so there's that to be absolutely terrified by.
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Old 11-16-2016, 04:11 PM   #877
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Old 11-16-2016, 04:14 PM   #878
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I guess my question to all of this would be: is there a (moral/social/ethical) line a political candidate could cross that would make justifying voting for that person unacceptable?

I get voting for someone with views you don't like when they're really the only viable alternative. But when candidate A has crossed so many lines that would sink any other candidate (explicit racism, sexism, xenophobia, religious bigotry, etc), and when Candidate B has not only put forth more substantial policy to deal with the issues that candidate A claims to be addressing, but does so without dipping into the (usually) taboo areas that candidate A has, at what point does the risk posed by candidate A's controversial and divisive positions (to put it extremely mildly) outweigh the potential benefits?
If it's personal choice, like sex etc, not my damn issue. If you're doing something that violates the law, or what you stood for (flip-flopping levels vary), then.....eff you.
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Old 11-16-2016, 04:16 PM   #879
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I hold my representatives positions as my own. I'm imperfect. I cheated, I got a DUI, I have had facts change strongly held opinions.

If they go beyond what I won't accept about myself, we have a problem. I have a huge issue with the Trump rhetoric. If he pulls back (no sign) I will not be as mad.
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Old 11-16-2016, 04:20 PM   #880
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Glenn Beck's belated transformation to a hipster is perhaps the most unexpected turn of this election cycle.

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