Trump General Discusion II

[gump]

I get it, I just don't think there's a precedent, nor do I see anyway around it, and there are far larger conflicts of interests to deal with.

Oh I agree. This is story #153 in the list of ways the Trumps will extract money from taxpayers in the US and around the world. It's just so visible, though.

 

[BVS]

Comments on facebook, twitter, reddit, predictit, are all racist. I'm sure I can dig up some on the Huff Post or Daily Kos too.

But there's a reason why neo-nazis feel comfortable there, there's a reason why they find Trump to be an ally, and it's the same reason why you will never really have this conversation.

You may find them there, but they aren't as numerous, welcomed, or as hardcore as on Breitbart.


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[bono_212]

It's funny that the media broke the Clinton emails story (AP did that) but whereas that was a legitimate scandal, they're now grasping at straws when it comes to Trump.

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Just wait, BoMac, it's coming. There's mountains of evidence just waiting to be found, and eventually that Nasty Woman will get hers, and Saint Donald will be vindicated of all the straw grasping.

But thanks for at least trying, Oreg, I do appreciate at least a few reasonable responses amongst the dismissiles.

 

[Vincent Vega]

Honestly I find the comment about middle Americans "not wanting to find out" about their predicaments to be disingenuous. What are these people supposed to do, take a community college course on global macroeconomics in their downtime? How many of us supposed enlightened people on here are fully aware of all the economic forces that contribute to our prosperity or lack thereof, or of our behaviors that may or may not contribute to all the shit we complain about?

You don't need to fully understand or have studied economics in order to listen to someone openly when they demonstrate knowledge that you don't have. And as the author put it, this is exactly the problem. Some people are all too eager to put the blame for their economic misery on others, be they Mexican or Chinese or whatever. And when someone comes and says, "Well, it's not as simple as that.", instead of trying to discuss and getting behind the complexity of international trade as much as your intellect allows them to, these people simply show the "bloody liberal with their education" the door. No curiosity whatsoever.


The Austrians are eagerly learning from Trump, it seems. The other week, a representative of the right-wing FPÖ said about the Presidential candidate of the Green party, Alexander van der Bellen, "People are speculating his father was close to the Nazis". There's a long backstory to that, but the gist is, she is doing what Trump was doing with perfection: A vague accusation, backed not by facts, but by what people feel, think or say.

Now the Austrian Chamber of Commerce is committing outright copyright infringement:

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Let's put another shrimp on the barbey!

 

[BoMac]

Ahahahahaha

[tweet]802353507734986752[/tweet]


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[LuckyNumber7]

Help.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

For fucks sake

 

[anitram]

You don't need to fully understand or have studied economics in order to listen to someone openly when they demonstrate knowledge that you don't have. And as the author put it, this is exactly the problem. Some people are all too eager to put the blame for their economic misery on others, be they Mexican or Chinese or whatever. And when someone comes and says, "Well, it's not as simple as that.", instead of trying to discuss and getting behind the complexity of international trade as much as your intellect allows them to, these people simply show the "bloody liberal with their education" the door. No curiosity whatsoever.

And to add to this, you don't even have to require them to listen to economists.

Before I met my husband I dated a guy whose father worked for GM almost his entire life (until his plant or portion of the plant where he worked closed down). Their town is pretty depressing these days, not Flint-levels depressing but not a place I'd want to live, though the real estate is super cheap. And he said that he saw it all coming for well over a decade because he literally watched as his friends' positions were automated, one by one over the years. He stayed with GM because he wasn't really educated to do anything else and he thought he could ride it out until close enough to retirement that it wouldn't matter.

So you don't have to be an economist or some kind of financial genius to see what's happening to the left and to the right of you. It should be plainly obvious to anyone willing to open their eyes and minds that automation has and will kill jobs that will NEVER come back.

 

[DaveC]

And to add to this, you don't even have to require them to listen to economists.

Before I met my husband I dated a guy whose father worked for GM almost his entire life (until his plant or portion of the plant where he worked closed down). Their town is pretty depressing these days, not Flint-levels depressing but not a place I'd want to live, though the real estate is super cheap. And he said that he saw it all coming for well over a decade because he literally watched as his friends' positions were automated, one by one over the years. He stayed with GM because he wasn't really educated to do anything else and he thought he could ride it out until close enough to retirement that it wouldn't matter.

So you don't have to be an economist or some kind of financial genius to see what's happening to the left and to the right of you. It should be plainly obvious to anyone willing to open their eyes and minds that automation has and will kill jobs that will NEVER come back.

i was thinking at first that was the GM plant in oakville, but then i remembered that there was never a time in the past where oakville was anything but "pretty depressing".

 

[anitram]

i was thinking at first that was the GM plant in oakville, but then i remembered that there was never a time in the past where oakville was anything but "pretty depressing".

Hahaha. No, Oshawa.

It's not THAT bad of a town, but I was there recently and found it way more depressing than it was 15 years ago.

 

[DaveC]

so hey, putin said openly on television last night to wild applause that "the borders of russia do not end".

i guess we can kiss the baltic states and maybe ukraine goodbye sometime over the next four years. it was nice knowing georgia, too. nato sure was a cool idea while it lasted.

 

[LuckyNumber7]

A new vurld
a russian vurld

 

[BoMac]

so hey, putin said openly on television last night to wild applause that "the borders of russia do not end".

i guess we can kiss the baltic states and maybe ukraine goodbye sometime over the next four years. it was nice knowing georgia, too. nato sure was a cool idea while it lasted.

Fall 2018. Nothing will happen until after the World Cup.

 

[mama cass]

Fillon, who is running against Juppe for the primaries for "Les Republicains" here in France (vote tomorrow), is very close to Putin, and in his campaign material, there's a map of Europe showing a divided Germany - hopefully it was just some idiot accidentally sourcing an outdated map and not an indicator of Europe's borders in the near future lol

 

[Hewson]

so hey, putin said openly on television last night to wild applause that "the borders of russia do not end".

i guess we can kiss the baltic states and maybe ukraine goodbye sometime over the next four years. it was nice knowing georgia, too. nato sure was a cool idea while it lasted.

 

[Headache in a Suitcase]

I think the recount effort is ridiculous, but for President-elect Douchefy McShitforbrains to denounce the recount after he spent his entire campaign talking of how the process is rigged and be wouldn't accept the results is just rich

 

[Vincent Vega]

And to add to this, you don't even have to require them to listen to economists.

Before I met my husband I dated a guy whose father worked for GM almost his entire life (until his plant or portion of the plant where he worked closed down). Their town is pretty depressing these days, not Flint-levels depressing but not a place I'd want to live, though the real estate is super cheap. And he said that he saw it all coming for well over a decade because he literally watched as his friends' positions were automated, one by one over the years. He stayed with GM because he wasn't really educated to do anything else and he thought he could ride it out until close enough to retirement that it wouldn't matter.

So you don't have to be an economist or some kind of financial genius to see what's happening to the left and to the right of you. It should be plainly obvious to anyone willing to open their eyes and minds that automation has and will kill jobs that will NEVER come back.

Right, I wasn't necessarily having economists in mind. I think the effects of automation, but also of having everything available at ridiculously low prices at Wal Mart or Target is understood by many people. A farmer would easily see how the big machinery he is using is not only responsible for him producing more in an hour than his grandfather in a season, but also for having reduced employment in agriculture by 90%.
The problem is when people willfully close their eyes to these developments, and shout out any voices that try to provide a little insight. And these really don't need to be economics or business majors.


I read the story of Derek Black, son of the Stormfront founder and godson of David Duke a few weeks ago: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...5f906a-8f3b-11e6-a6a3-d50061aa9fae_story.html

He was the big hope of the American Nazis, and according to the Post article, formulated the "white genocide" theory. He fully believed what he had learnt from his father and godfather, and then decided to put it on a scholarly footing by going to a liberal arts college. Exposure made him rethink his positions and he has completely turned around on the issue of white supremacy.

He now wrote a piece in the New York Times about Trump's success, and what it means for the white nationalist movement:

Mr. Trump’s comments during the campaign echoed how I also tapped into less-than-explicit white nationalist ideology to reach relatively moderate white Americans. I went door-to-door in 2008 talking about how Hispanic immigration was overwhelming “American” culture, how black neighborhoods were hotbeds of crime, and how P.C. culture didn’t let us talk about any of it. I won that small election with 60 percent of the vote.

A substantial portion of the American public has made clear that it feels betrayed by the establishment, and so it elected a president who denounces all Muslims as potential conspirators in terrorism; who sees black communities as crime-ridden; who taps into white American mistrust of foreigners, particularly of Hispanics; and who promises the harshest form of immigration control. If we thought Mr. Trump himself might backtrack on some of this, we are now watching him fill a cabinet with people able to make that campaign rhetoric into real policy.

Much has been made of the incoherence of Mr. Trump’s proposals, but what really matters is who does — and doesn’t — need to fear them. None of the ideas that Mr. Trump has put forward would endanger me, and I once enthusiastically advocated for most of what he says. No proposal to put more cops in black neighborhoods to stop and frisk residents would cause me to be harassed. A ban on Muslim immigration doesn’t implicate all people who look like me in terrorism. Overturning Roe v. Wade will not force me to make a dangerous choice about my health, nor will a man who personifies sexual assault without penalty make me any less safe. When the most powerful demographic in the United States came together to assert that making America great again meant asserting their supremacy, they were asserting my supremacy.

The wave of violence and vile language that has risen since the election is only one immediate piece of evidence that this campaign’s reckless assertion of white identity comes at a huge cost. More and more people are being forced to recognize now what I learned early: Our country is susceptible to some of our worst instincts when the message is packaged correctly.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/26/o...nalism.html?smid=fb-nytopinion&smtyp=cur&_r=0

 

[iron yuppie]

And to add to this, you don't even have to require them to listen to economists.

Before I met my husband I dated a guy whose father worked for GM almost his entire life (until his plant or portion of the plant where he worked closed down). Their town is pretty depressing these days, not Flint-levels depressing but not a place I'd want to live, though the real estate is super cheap. And he said that he saw it all coming for well over a decade because he literally watched as his friends' positions were automated, one by one over the years. He stayed with GM because he wasn't really educated to do anything else and he thought he could ride it out until close enough to retirement that it wouldn't matter.

So you don't have to be an economist or some kind of financial genius to see what's happening to the left and to the right of you. It should be plainly obvious to anyone willing to open their eyes and minds that automation has and will kill jobs that will NEVER come back.

When people get laid off from a manufacturing job, they don't get an explanation about how a new machine is saving .5 cents a piece and so marginal productivity is going up whatever percentage per year. They simply get shown the door and start thinking about how to survive. I can't get behind this idea that people who don't understand the economic forces shaping their lives are willful ignoramuses. Maybe it seems obvious to you, but you're coming from a level of education that probably 95% of people don't have access to.

 

[bono_212]

I worked in a factory. The people I worked with were absolutely afraid of automation. They absolutely knew what it meant for their jobs.

 

[Mack_Again]

I have worked in a biology lab and I feel like lots of work we all do can be automated. hey, it's good for reproducibility but not good for my employment.

 

[anitram]

Maybe it seems obvious to you, but you're coming from a level of education that probably 95% of people don't have access to.

Except I just posted about a guy who probably didn't even graduate from high school and understood automation very well.

And I worked in a plastics (moulding) factory in high school and in my summers while in university. That plant probably reduced its workforce by 50% in the time I was there (~4-5 years). I can guarantee you that every person who worked there understood very well what the impact of automation was.

 

[bono_212]

I have worked in a biology lab and I feel like lots of work we all do can be automated. hey, it's good for reproducibility but not good for my employment.

Hell, when Watson helped make the trailer for Morgan, I started getting anxious as hell about my job, since he did everything someone in my position would.

 

[iron yuppie]

I worked in a factory. The people I worked with were absolutely afraid of automation. They absolutely knew what it meant for their jobs.

Except I just posted about a guy who probably didn't even graduate from high school and understood automation very well.

And I worked in a plastics (moulding) factory in high school and in my summers while in university. That plant probably reduced its workforce by 50% in the time I was there (~4-5 years). I can guarantee you that every person who worked there understood very well what the impact of automation was.

And my experience says exactly the opposite. Therein is the problem with basing sweeping generalizations on anecdotal evidence.

For argument's sake, let's say everyone who works a blue-collar job is aware of the direction of manufacturing etc. What immediate options do they have? Go get a degree in a sustainable field with little or no financial assistance? Develop a hot-selling app? These are issues of opportunity and especially of relevant education, not of widespread idiocy.

 

[BVS]

Very interesting read:


http://nyti.ms/2gsHKfe

"Mr. Trump’s comments during the campaign echoed how I also tapped into less-than-explicit white nationalist ideology to reach relatively moderate white Americans. I went door-to-door in 2008 talking about how Hispanic immigration was overwhelming “American” culture, how black neighborhoods were hotbeds of crime, and how P.C. culture didn’t let us talk about any of it. I won that small election with 60 percent of the vote.

A substantial portion of the American public has made clear that it feels betrayed by the establishment, and so it elected a president who denounces all Muslims as potential conspirators in terrorism; who sees black communities as crime-ridden; who taps into white American mistrust of foreigners, particularly of Hispanics; and who promises the harshest form of immigration control. If we thought Mr. Trump himself might backtrack on some of this, we are now watching him fill a cabinet with people able to make that campaign rhetoric into real policy."


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[Mack_Again]

Hell, when Watson helped make the trailer for Morgan, I started getting anxious as hell about my job, since he did everything someone in my position would.

The automation in the lab is done already but they're mostly reserved to larger labs, mostly in industries. but hell, lab procedures are getting easier with more advanced techniques like CRISPR, it's astounding.

 

[BoMac]

Christ, what an asshole:

[TWEET]802972944532209664[/TWEET]

 

[gareth brown]

hahaha wow

 

[bono_212]

Hilarious. And yet I'm sure people will eat it up.

 

[BEAL]

Pure class


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