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Old 11-22-2016, 11:41 PM   #541
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I mean, it's real news, just not something I think is particularly valid.



Trump won fair and square on election day guys. It sucks, but like many a smug liberal such as myself said leading up the election, it is incredibly difficult to rig an election.

Yeah, these guys may be wackadoos, but I think they've actually talked to the Clinton campaign.


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Old 11-22-2016, 11:43 PM   #542
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So what's this I hear that Jerry Falwell Jr may get a plum position in education?

Yes, the creationist dude.

I thought Trump was going to dismantle the Dept. of Education. I guess making it a laughing stock would accomplish the same thing.


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Old 11-22-2016, 11:49 PM   #543
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I mean, it's real news, just not something I think is particularly valid.

Trump won fair and square on election day guys. It sucks, but like many a smug liberal such as myself said leading up the election, it is incredibly difficult to rig an election.
I've read some compelling arguments about the statistical oddity of her losing by JUST enough in all three of those states to warrant further inspection.
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Old 11-23-2016, 12:01 AM   #544
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Is it?


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Because it is on CNN or in the NYT does not mean it is legit. Calling it fake, may not wash, but often it is not legit.
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Old 11-23-2016, 12:07 AM   #545
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I've read some compelling arguments about the statistical oddity of her losing by JUST enough in all three of those states to warrant further inspection.
People tend to find what they are looking for, and what arguments support their bias. I have found myself in that trap,
during the W Bush 8 years my hatred of him and Cheney blinded my judgement,
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Old 11-23-2016, 12:12 AM   #546
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Because it is on CNN or in the NYT does not mean it is legit. Calling it fake, may not wash, but often it is not legit.
If a journalist reports that a meeting took place, he is reporting fact and that is not "fake news," even if the content of the meeting was all lies.

Hard to know what you mean with your typical drive-by posting style.
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Old 11-23-2016, 12:31 AM   #547
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I've read some compelling arguments about the statistical oddity of her losing by JUST enough in all three of those states to warrant further inspection.


Agreed, it is really weird. To run the table in states that no one thought were close -- today, Trump said that they only went to Michigan because they heard the Clinton team was having some worries -- forming what has been rightly called the biggest upset in political history stretches credulity. Nothing like this has ever happened before. When the GOP cooked up and implemented their racist voter suppression schemes they never could have imagined they'd work this perfectly.

The alternative might be worse -- a hacked election? What the fuck are the implications of that? And how would we deal with that?
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Old 11-23-2016, 12:40 AM   #548
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If a journalist reports that a meeting took place, he is reporting fact and that is not "fake news," even if the content of the meeting was all lies.

Hard to know what you mean with your typical drive-by posting style.
I ceded the point that fake news would not wash. I consider it not legetimate but part of a concentrated effort to deligitimize Trumps election
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Old 11-23-2016, 12:50 AM   #549
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Perhaps. I'll be surprised if the Clinton campaign actually pursues it.


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Old 11-23-2016, 01:13 AM   #550
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As much as I looked into it, Obama and Nate Silver are not buying it
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Old 11-23-2016, 03:01 AM   #551
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Trump's NYT "interview" is surreal.

Either he's lying now, or his entire campaign was just a heaping pile of bullshit aimed at getting suckers to vote for him.

I really don't know which I believe to be true.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ange-open-mind

Michael Brune, executive director of Sierra Club, said of his latest comments: “Talk is cheap, and no one should believe Donald Trump means this until he acts upon it. We’re waiting for action, and Trump is kidding nobody on climate as he simultaneously stacks his transition team and cabinet with climate science deniers and the dirtiest hacks the fossil fuel industry can offer. Prove it, president-elect. The world is watching.”
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Old 11-23-2016, 04:39 AM   #552
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apart from this being standard editorial practice (you think they can turn that stuff around in minutes after the results?!), THAT is the universe i would like to be living in right now - feels like someone has been messing with a time machine and we've suddenly been diverted to an alternative parallel universe where Biff's Paradise is now Trump's Tower, Farage is his best mate, Boris Johnson is British Foreign Secretary, the Extreme Right is on the rise in Europe, and Neo-Nazis are getting a free pass in the US! where's Doc Brown when you need him?
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Old 11-23-2016, 07:29 AM   #553
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honestly can't believe how people were fooled by this guy - man of the people yay

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...ome-inequality

Trump's tax plan: massive cuts for the 1% will usher 'era of dynastic wealth'

More than eight million low-income and single-parent families will face sharp tax increases under Donald Trump exacerbating income inequality, experts warn

Under Donald Trump’s proposed tax plan, the most wealthy Americans will receive an average annual tax cut of $215,000.

President Donald Trump is set to give America’s richest 1% an average annual tax cut of $214,000 when he takes office, while more than eight million families with children are expected to suffer financially under his proposed tax plan.

On the eve of the election, Trump promised to “massively cut taxes for the middle class, the forgotten people, the forgotten men and women of this country, who built our country”. But independent expert analyses of Trump’s tax plan show that America’s millionaire and billionaire class will win big at the expense of struggling low- and middle-income people, who turned out in large numbers to help the real estate billionaire win the election.

Experts warn that Trump’s tax plan will exacerbate America’s already chronic income inequality and herald in a “new era of dynastic wealth”.


“The Trump tax plan is heavily, heavily, skewed to the most wealthy, who will receive huge savings,” said Lily Batchelder, a law professor and tax expert at New York University. “At the same time, millions of low-income families – particularly single-parent households – will face an increase.”

Batchelder, who wrote an academic paper on Trump’s tax plan published by the Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center, said that the president-elect’s plan “significantly raises taxes” for at least 8.5 million families, with “especially large tax increases for working single parents”. More than 26m individuals live in those families.

According to Batchelder’s research Trump’s tax changes – taken at their “most conservative” – could leave just over half of America’s nearly 11m single-parent households facing an increased tax burden. This figure rises to 61% – or 7m households – if the analysis is run on “reasonable assumptions” that the changes Trump has suggested go ahead.

Single-parent families would suffer the most because Trump would lower the minimum of tax-free earnings to $15,000 per adult no matter how many children in the household. Under current law the threshold is $17,400 for single-parent families with one child and $24,750 for a couple with one child, and the threshold increases by $4,050 for each additional child.

Trump also plans to consolidate the current seven tax breaks into three: 12%, 25% and 33%. His plan would scrap the current 10% tax for earnings under $19,625 and replace it with 12%. Trump’s proposed childcare credits would not make up for the changes, according to Batchelder.

Minority families are set to suffer disproportionately from the tax increases, according to Batchelder. With 32% of African American families facing a tax increase compared with 19% of whites, this is mostly due to African American families being more likely to share the burden of childcare within the family and hence not benefit as much from Trump childcare credits. Batchelder said the effective tax increase for many millions of families would run into the thousands.

While the poor will face tax increases, the Tax Policy Center research said the rich would received big tax cuts that get even bigger as you work up the income scale. The top 20% of earners would receive an average annual tax cut of $16,660 compared with an overall average cut of $2,940.

The richest 1% will collect 47% of all the tax cuts – an average saving of $214,000.

The 0.1% – the 117,000 households with incomes of more than $3.7m – would receive an average 2017 tax cut of $1.3m, a nearly 19% drop in tax they were due to pay in 2016. The tax savings of the super-rich will increase further in future, with the 0.1%’s estimated 2025 tax bill to fall by $1.5m.

It is a stark contrast to Hillary Clinton’s tax plan, which would have seen taxes rises for the super-wealthy. Under her plan, the top 1% would pay an extra $163,000 a year more on average, and would have made up 93% of all new tax revenue by 2025.

Clinton and Trump promised very different tax plans during the election.

“Listening to Trump’s rhetoric, most Americans probably don’t realise at all the impact of Trump’s tax plan,” Matt Gardner, a senior fellow at the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy (ITEP) said. “Any way you slice it, the very best-off Americans will be the biggest beneficiaries.

“If it looks bad now for middle-income families, those who turned out to vote for him, it’s only likely to get worse [with Trump as president]. It is very likely that they will end up poorer still. The most likely victims are middle- and low-income families.”

Gardner said that under Trump, America will become even more divided between the rich and poor. “America is already very unequal, and his proposals would make income inequality a lot worse,” Gardner said. “This is obviously quite worrisome. If he rode to victory on a middle-income wave of support, those middle Americans will be very disappointed.”


The inequality problem will be exacerbated by Trump’s plan to scrap inheritance tax – which he refers to as “the death tax”. The 40% inheritance tax is currently only charged on personal estate worth more than $5.45m and joint estates of $10.9m – sums so large that it only affects less than two in 1,000 Americans.

Trump has proposed repealing the tax entirely. While Clinton, pushed by Bernie Sanders’ strong stance on the issue, had suggested lowering the threshold to $3.5m and increasing the rate to 65% for the super-wealthy.

“It’s hard to think of a tax change that will have a more detrimental effect on inequality,” Garnder said. “There is no question that this will lead to a perpetual income elite – hardly the thing that Trump voters would have wanted. This will lead to a new era of dynastic wealth.”
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Old 11-23-2016, 08:38 AM   #554
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I've been telling you guys from the very beginning that most of this other stuff is a total distraction and the real game here is the wealthy getting off like bandits for the next 4/8 years. We shouldn't be fooled, it's always about the money.

Most of Trump's supporters are so blinded by their ideologies and so obsessed with placing blame externally (on the Mexicans, the cultural elites, Washington, the media) that they simply have no clue as to what is actually going on. They'll sit and celebrate potentially saving a couple of hundred bucks on their health insurance like fools, completely oblivious to what the top 1% are saving/making/stealing. And maybe that's the key to their happiness, living in ignorance.
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Old 11-23-2016, 09:11 AM   #555
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Nikki Haley as ambassador to the UN. Are we still sure Trump isn't systematically removing internal opponents by appointing them to presidential cabinet positions?
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Old 11-23-2016, 09:20 AM   #556
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Nikki Haley as ambassador to the UN. Are we still sure Trump isn't systematically removing internal opponents by appointing them to presidential cabinet positions?
I breathed a sigh of relief there. As long as Bolton/Giuliani doesn't become Secretary of State, the worst case scenario is averted.
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Old 11-23-2016, 09:27 AM   #557
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I breathed a sigh of relief there. As long as Bolton/Giuliani doesn't become Secretary of State, the worst case scenario is averted.

I dunno. I feel it's really difficult to criticize Trump from within his cabinet. If it's Priebus/Romney/Haley for those respective picks, who from within the Republican Party will criticize Trump and have any power or sway? They'll all work for Trump.

It might seem initially counterintuitive -- putting the biggest baddest ugliest folks in his cabinet seems more preferable to me. Doing what he's doing right now maximizes his power and ability.
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Old 11-23-2016, 09:31 AM   #558
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I dunno. I feel it's really difficult to criticize Trump from within his cabinet. If it's Priebus/Romney/Haley for those respective picks, who from within the Republican Party will criticize Trump and have any power or sway? They'll all work for Trump.

It might seem initially counterintuitive -- putting the biggest baddest ugliest folks in his cabinet seems more preferable to me. Doing what he's doing right now maximizes his power and ability.
I'm ambivalent on this. I mean, Colin Powell was a moderating influence and still went in front of the Security Council with the WMD claims for Iraq, so Presidential power is hard to oppose. At the same time, Haley has political ambitions of her own, and may not be willing to risk it all on behalf of Trump.

It will still be pretty bad for multilateralism. The UN (and US credibility in the organization) is still recovering from the Bush years. But within these parameters, I still prefer a moderate than a crazy radical. The Bolton years were the worst.
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Old 11-23-2016, 09:34 AM   #559
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I dunno. I feel it's really difficult to criticize Trump from within his cabinet. If it's Priebus/Romney/Haley for those respective picks, who from within the Republican Party will criticize Trump and have any power or sway? They'll all work for Trump.

My best guess is that there will be a massive internal fight between what the establishment GOP on the hill wants (Ryan/McConnell who are both just busting at the seams with their newfound control) and Bannon. These two groups have completely opposing views as to policy. Every populist idea held by Bannon is essentially roundly rejected by the likes of Paul Ryan. The whole lot of them together is a recipe for massive dysfunction. The real question is what happens to Trump and what role he plays. He seems to be approaching this as a CEO who is the one and only in charge (ignoring the Board of Directors for a minute) and who is used to delegating to minions and expects them to fall in line. What he doesn't understand is the internal politics of Washington and just how entrenched the bureaucracy is. And that members of Congress would like to use him in the good times but will have no use of him in the bad times. Recall that the Republicans will have massive issues in the 2020 election and so every elected Republican is out there to save his/her own ass first. They will drop Trump like a hot potato as soon as he starts tanking in the polls. I mean they basically pretend that W Bush wasn't one of theirs, goes to show you the extent of their loyalty.
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Old 11-23-2016, 11:02 AM   #560
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I'm ambivalent on this. I mean, Colin Powell was a moderating influence and still went in front of the Security Council with the WMD claims for Iraq, so Presidential power is hard to oppose. At the same time, Haley has political ambitions of her own, and may not be willing to risk it all on behalf of Trump.



It will still be pretty bad for multilateralism. The UN (and US credibility in the organization) is still recovering from the Bush years. But within these parameters, I still prefer a moderate than a crazy radical. The Bolton years were the worst.

Trump himself sees the UN as useless.

Trump also just made the presumptive governor of South Carolina somebody who was a staunch supporter of his. Haley was a big opponent.

I really can't imagine he's done this for any other reason.
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