Trayvon Martin's murderer George Zimmerman is still a free man

[maycocksean]

Originally Posted by tim722

"I think it's time to have an honest conversation on race in this country." Barack Obama

Oh wait. He didn't request this. Instead he said that he could've been TM 35 yrs ago. Or TM could have been his son. He's not looking for an honest conversation on race. He's just playing to the race baiting left.

Why not talk about all the young black men and women killing each other in his hometown including a six year old girl.
Girl, 6, shot in chest on South Side: 'It was horrific' - chicagotribune.com

Why not talk about all the black men and women robbing white people in the city of Chicago, his hometown on the Magnificent Mile? Chicago Tribune

Why? Because its only racism when it's white on black. Not black on white. The white cracker Zimmerman deserved it cause he followed TM.

Ridiculous. Keep arguing you're point Obama and it'll come back to bite you.

Dude. I think you missed the memo.

The Very Polite Conservative Response to Obama's Trayvon Martin Speech

[maycocksean]

Originally Posted by AEON

Unfortunately we will probably always have some issues with race/culture relations. The question is - how best can we manage it?

Probably not with this:

Originally Posted by AEON

It's not cracker - it's cracka

[maycocksean]

Originally Posted by AEON

We've been talking about race since our nation's formation...

We've also had the bloodiest war in the Western Hemisphere, numerous riots, and countless murders around the idea of "race"...

In fact, we've had racial issues since the beginning of recorded history.

That doesn't mean we should stop talking about race - but it's ridiculous to suggest we start something that began since the first man ran into another shade of man from across the valley...

Conversation probably is not the best word to define what you've described above.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by maycocksean

Probably not with this:

My point was that there was a specific distinction made - that by simply changing the spelling it was supposed to be somehow less offensive. Again, I'm pointing out some of the more obvious hypocrisy - something I would think essential if we are to continue an honest discussion on race.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by maycocksean

Conversation probably is not the best word to define what you've described above.

True - I should have pointed out that these events started out as conversations.

[iron yuppie]

Originally Posted by tim722

Why not talk about all the young black men and women killing each other in his hometown including a six year old girl.
Girl, 6, shot in chest on South Side: 'It was horrific' - chicagotribune.com

Why not talk about all the black men and women robbing white people in the city of Chicago, his hometown on the Magnificent Mile? Chicago Tribune

Because maybe, just maybe, these things are not indicative of black "racism" but rather the extreme socio-economic segregation of the south side from the rest of Chicago.

Regarding race in general, why is it that the Right always seems to approach such topics with the assumption that the US is a post-racial society and that anyone who as much as suggests that there are racial tensions still around must be some extreme ivory tower leftist?

[digitize]

Originally Posted by iron yuppie

Because maybe, just maybe, these things are not indicative of black "racism" but rather the extreme socio-economic segregation of the south side from the rest of Chicago.

The fact that black people are disproportionately born into the sort of circumstances that breed violence is really just proof to me that the US is ridiculously far from being "post-racial".

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by iron yuppie

Regarding race in general, why is it that the Right always seems to approach such topics with the assumption that the US is a post-racial society and that anyone who as much as suggests that there are racial tensions still around must be some extreme ivory tower leftist?

Superbly said.

This gets at my irritation with the phrase "play the race card." As well as the assumption that the mere suggestion of race as an issue is far, far worse than racism itself.

[deep]

Some have ears but do not hear
Eyes but do not see

President Obama on Friday made his most extensive comments on race since entering the White House, and they are generating extensive commentary.Sen. John McCain, the Arizona Republican who lost the 2008 presidential race to Obama, called the president's remarks "very impressive," and said they should help all Americans think about how to improve race relations in the wake of Trayvon Martin's death."I think we continue to make progress," McCain told CNN'sState of the Union, but recent events show "we still have a long way to go."

McCain still has good days.

[PhilsFan]

Originally Posted by tim722

"I think it's time to have an honest conversation on race in this country." Barack Obama

Oh wait. He didn't request this. Instead he said that he could've been TM 35 yrs ago. Or TM could have been his son. He's not looking for an honest conversation on race. He's just playing to the race baiting left.

Saying black people can't talk about race is one of the more upfront forms of racism. I like upfront forms of racism better than the more subtle, quiet ones because it makes it easier to dismiss someone. If that's your thing, own it, man. Good for you.

[cobl04]

Reminds me of the outrage our former PM Julia Gillard sparked after daring to suggest she had been the victim of sexism and misogyny (which she had). All of a sudden she was the sexist, accused of starting the "gender wars".

[AEON]

I think one of the major problems is that many people seem it is only fair to call out "white racism" - while other races seem to get a free pass.

[deep]

see the new thread

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by AEON

I think one of the major problems is that many people seem it is only fair to call out "white racism" - while other races seem to get a free pass.

I don't agree with this at all.

I have so many thoughts on this subject -- being a type of minority myself, presently living in an expensive house in an inner city neighborhood in a majority-minority city with 50/50 poor black and hipster/yuppie white neighbors where people get shot on a fairly regular basis and with a partner/husband who comes from a part of the world where open racism (obama as n-word) is a part of life as well as teenage pregnancy and barely above the poverty level incomes.

What blows my mind is the idea that anyone is "colorblind" and suggestions that race (and gender) dont play an enormous part of shaping our existence and experience in subtle and also obvious ways.

Do you know what it's like to walk down the street and assume that everyone is assuming the worst about you, thinking "is he thinking about me what it is I think he's thinking about me?"

Obama:

And for those who resist that idea that we should think about something like these “stand your ground” laws, I’d just ask people to consider, if Trayvon Martin was of age and armed, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk? And do we actually think that he would have been justified in shooting Mr. Zimmerman who had followed him in a car because he felt threatened? And if the answer to that question is at least ambiguous, then it seems to me that we might want to examine those kinds of laws.

But I am on a mobile device. So this is all I have right now.

[Irvine511]

This is superb.

Too long to post in full, but captivating reading on race:

A friend of mine here at Indiana University, the late black writer and creative-writing professor Don Belton, came to my house one day looking especially weary. Don told me he had been at the bookstore, where a young white woman had asked if he needed any help, and he’d snapped, “Do I look like I need help?” I’m sure this behavior didn’t make sense to the poor woman trying to assist him. Don thought he was being perceived as a criminal. “Can I help you?” twisted in his ear into “Are you stealing something?” I tried to tell him that I’d seen the clerks at that store ask everyone who walked in the same question. Don held his head in his hands. “I’m just so tired,” he said.

I have my own catalog of similarly exhausting experiences: the janitor in my building on campus shouting, “How’d you get in here?” as I walked to my office one night, until I shook my key at him; the older white woman at the antique shop glaring at my pockets (one of which had a book in it), and my own halfhearted desire to allay her anxiety: No, no, dear lady, I just need a chair. I just want a fucking chair.

As a result of this, I’ve developed the habit of buying something in stores whether I want to or not, to put such possibly suspicious white people at ease. I’m behaving in response to what I imagine other people are thinking. After all, the janitor and the antique-shop clerk didn’t say anything to me about the color of my skin. Just as the cop didn’t say, “Since you appear to be of some African extraction, I would like to ask you if you have any drugs or weapons in the car.” He just asked if I had any drugs or weapons in the car.

I’ve had to struggle not to absorb those stares and questions and traffic stops and newscasts and tv shows and movies and what they imply. I’ve been afraid walking through the alarm gate at the store that maybe something’s fallen into my pockets, or that I’ve unconsciously stuffed something in them; I’ve felt panic that the light-skinned black man who mugged our elderly former neighbors was actually me, and I worried that my parents, with whom I watched the newscast, suspected the same; and nearly every time I’ve been pulled over, I’ve prayed there were no drugs in my car, despite the fact that I don’t use drugs; I don’t even smoke pot. That’s to say, the story I have all my life heard about black people — criminal, criminal, criminal — I have started to suspect of myself.

And:

A few years back I was teaching a summer enrichment class for public-school students in Philadelphia who were almost all black, and I had a discussion about drug use with them. One outspoken child told me, and the class, “Mr. Ross, my name’s not Sally; my name’s Takeisha. I smoke weed.” God bless this child and her weed. But what she didn’t know, and won’t until she makes some white friends or goes off to college, is that Sally probably smokes just as much weed as she does, or takes OxyContin, or snorts Ritalin, or uses cocaine or Adderall. Takeisha believed that she was different from white people in her habits. She believed she was a criminal, whereas her white counterparts were, well, white. I wish Takeisha and everyone else knew that people of all races use drugs. It’s just that if you’re black or brown, like the people in Takeisha’s neighborhood, your drug use is more often policed and punished. But the fantasy of black criminality continues. This, to a large extent, is what the drug war is about: making Takeisha — along with her teachers, her local shop owners, her neighbors, her city’s police, her prosecutors — believe she’s a criminal. It is, perhaps, the only war the U.S. has won in the last thirty years.

http://thesunmagazine.org/issues/451...&src=longreads

[Jive Turkey]

Someone posted this on another forum I look at. Some interesting bits of information here. Goes a bit too far into speculation a few times, but I trust you can separate the two

AFTERBURNER w/ BILL WHITTLE: The Lynching - YouTube

[deep]

that should find a wide audience with dullards

[Jive Turkey]

Did you even watch it deep? How do you feel about the non-opinion based facts he brought up? Surely if a dullard can sit through it, you could manage it

[AEON]

Originally Posted by deep

that should find a wide audience with dullards

Are you allowing yourself to slip into confirmation bias?

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

Do you know what it's like to walk down the street and assume that everyone is assuming the worst about you, thinking "is he thinking about me what it is I think he's thinking about me?"

Not all racism is the same. For instance, the racism an Asian would experience would be different from what you are describing above.

To claim and ignore there is not racism against whites occasionally is just plain wrong and unless it is addressed alongside all other racist comments/thoughts then the "honest discussion" on race will remain one-sided and create more division and less unity.