Trayvon Martin's murderer George Zimmerman is still a free man - Page 47 - U2 Feedback

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Old 07-19-2013, 05:44 PM   #921
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It seems the prosecution's star witness, Rachel Jeantel, believes "Trayvon hit first" and there was also no bruising/marks on Trayvon (from a fight).
Is this suppose to mean something?
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I concede - this is circumstantial. However, it does line up with Zimmerman's story and it is difficult to see how a grown man could get his nose broken, head beaten, and helplessly pinned - without leaving a single mark on the other person - unless he was "jumped". But it is possible I suppose.
It's a shame that speculation and circumstantial evidence carry so much weight in this mess.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:05 PM   #922
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Is this suppose to mean something?

It's a shame that speculation and circumstantial evidence carry so much weight in this mess.
When prosecution and defense witnesses align on a factual element, what does it say about the speculation that something else happened?
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:31 PM   #923
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It's a shame that speculation and circumstantial evidence carry so much weight in this mess.
Well, true. In this forum we've used speculation to carry on a discussion, and try to guess what likely happened based on the evidence we've seen in the trial and through the information released via the press.

To me - the key is the voice crying out repeatedly "Help!....Help!....Help!"

So what do we know was happening at this moment...

We know for sure that Zimmerman's back was wet, was bleeding on the back of the head, and had a broken nose. An eyewitness also saw TM punching down on Zimmerman "MMA" style. Also - the forensics demonstrated that the bullet went through TM's sweater in a way that could only occur from leaning forward.

Also - the dispatcher said to Zimmerman, "we don't you need you to do that" after the dispatcher heard the wind in the background and asked Zimmerman if he was following the suspect. In other words - Zimmerman did not disregard the dispatcher's advice - instead - was heading back to his vehicle to meet the cops (he told the dispatcher he would meet them at his truck).
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Old 07-19-2013, 11:42 PM   #924
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And a gun turned a fistfight into a death.

It's the guns and our stupid, insane gun laws that leave the rest of the world shaking its collective head at us.
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:08 AM   #925
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Not saying you're wrong or right but it's unfair to jump to that conclusion. I could just as easily say that without the gun someone still would have died. And there's no basis for that, it is something I don't think we will ever know.
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Old 07-20-2013, 08:02 AM   #926
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Not saying you're wrong or right but it's unfair to jump to that conclusion. I could just as easily say that without the gun someone still would have died. And there's no basis for that, it is something I don't think we will ever know.
We know an unarmed person was shot to death.

We don't know that TM would have beaten GZ to death. Takes a lot to do so. And perhaps these "MMA" accusations were because GZ was packing and TM was scared.

It's the guns.
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:07 PM   #927
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When prosecution and defense witnesses align on a factual element, what does it say about the speculation that something else happened?
There was alignment on a factual element regarding how this started? Where?
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Old 07-20-2013, 12:11 PM   #928
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Well, true. In this forum we've used speculation to carry on a discussion, and try to guess what likely happened based on the evidence we've seen in the trial and through the information released via the press.

To me - the key is the voice crying out repeatedly "Help!....Help!....Help!"

So what do we know was happening at this moment...

We know for sure that Zimmerman's back was wet, was bleeding on the back of the head, and had a broken nose. An eyewitness also saw TM punching down on Zimmerman "MMA" style. Also - the forensics demonstrated that the bullet went through TM's sweater in a way that could only occur from leaning forward.
No one is disputing this, but none of this tells me how it started.

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Also - the dispatcher said to Zimmerman, "we don't you need you to do that" after the dispatcher heard the wind in the background and asked Zimmerman if he was following the suspect. In other words - Zimmerman did not disregard the dispatcher's advice - instead - was heading back to his vehicle to meet the cops (he told the dispatcher he would meet them at his truck).
This seems to contradict what you stated earlier about Martin waiting for Zimmerman to catch up to him???
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Old 07-20-2013, 01:43 PM   #929
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This seems to contradict what you stated earlier about Martin waiting for Zimmerman to catch up to him???
How so? Martin had "disappeared" for several minutes - even though his home was only about 30 seconds from the the place he was last scene. Zimmerman went into the general direction looking for a street sign to give the dispatcher the exact location of where he last saw Martin - when the dispatcher told Zimmerman he shouldn't follow - he turned back around toward his truck to meet the police (which he told the dispatcher he was doing). He was on his way back toward his truck that Martin "appeared" and the fight occurred.

Since he was less than 30 seconds from his home, and Zimmerman was well behind him at this point (and still in the truck) it is obvious Martin decided not to go home, but remain near the "T-section" for several minutes until Zimmerman walked through the area to the street - then came back through the area toward his truck.

Whether Martin was hiding can't be proven - but it's fact based on the phone records of Zimmerman and Martin that Martin remained in the "T-section" area for almost 4 minutes instead of simply going home (if he was truly afraid for his life - he already had Zimmerman beaten on the the path home). This just adds yet more weight the self-defense claim.
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Old 07-20-2013, 04:41 PM   #930
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Well - anyone is allowed to be suspicious of anything.

I reference the clothing as evidence that seems to point that TM had the character of a young man/older teen that desired to be a "gangsta" - and not only did he want to look the part, he wanted to play the part (based on the texts and photos on his phone) - and this is what motivated him to jump the "cracka" Zimmerman - which eventually led to his being shot.
I read things in here, and I just throw my hands up and walk away

my opinion is that many of the posts in here, show a clear non-rational bias.
I think it would be pointless to take each one on.
However I have seen you engage in thoughtful, reflective discussion in the past and (like myself ) sometimes change an opinion.


Consider this incident at the onset.

party one is standing in the club house area around 7 pm talking on the phone, listening to an mp3. As a lawful resident in that community he was doing nothing wrong or even suspicious. If a police man drove by, what to you think that police man would have done?

party two is driving out of the complex sees party one in the common area, which every resident is lawfully entitled to be occupying.
GZ based not on behavior, but only appearance judges him a 'fucking punk that always gets away'.

when did TM call GZ a 'cacka' ? Was that based on appearance or behavior?

Only after GZ had stalked him and stared him down for several minutes for no good or legal reason.
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Old 07-20-2013, 06:19 PM   #931
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Only after GZ had stalked him and stared him down for several minutes for no good or legal reason.
Perhaps - but I think the recent crime wave in the neighborhood certainly had GZ "on high alert".
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Old 07-21-2013, 01:25 AM   #932
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"I think it's time to have an honest conversation on race in this country." Barack Obama

Oh wait. He didn't request this. Instead he said that he could've been TM 35 yrs ago. Or TM could have been his son. He's not looking for an honest conversation on race. He's just playing to the race baiting left.

Why not talk about all the young black men and women killing each other in his hometown including a six year old girl.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,4527420.story

Why not talk about all the black men and women robbing white people in the city of Chicago, his hometown on the Magnificent Mile? http://my.chicagotribune.com/#sectio.../p2p-76736836/

Why? Because its only racism when it's white on black. Not black on white. The white cracker Zimmerman deserved it cause he followed TM.

Ridiculous. Keep arguing you're point Obama and it'll come back to bite you.
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Old 07-21-2013, 05:50 AM   #933
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Why not talk about all the young black men and women killing each other in his hometown including a six year old girl.
If you actually listened to his whole speech, you'd realize that he did talk about black on black crime.

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Why not talk about all the black men and women robbing white people in the city of Chicago, his hometown on the Magnificent Mile?
If you actually listened to his whole speech, you'd realize that he did talk about how black males are more likely to be victims and perpetrators of crime.

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Why? Because its only racism when it's white on black. Not black on white. The white cracker Zimmerman deserved it cause he followed TM.
Now who's race baiting?
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:19 AM   #934
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George Zimmerman isn't white
George Zimmerman isn't white
George Zimmerman isn't white
George Zimmerman isn't white
George Zimmerman isn't white

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Old 07-21-2013, 08:49 AM   #935
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"I think it's time to have an honest conversation on race in this country." Barack Obama

Oh wait. He didn't request this. Instead he said that he could've been TM 35 yrs ago. Or TM could have been his son. He's not looking for an honest conversation on race. He's just playing to the race baiting left.

Why not talk about all the young black men and women killing each other in his hometown including a six year old girl.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,4527420.story

Why not talk about all the black men and women robbing white people in the city of Chicago, his hometown on the Magnificent Mile? http://my.chicagotribune.com/#sectio.../p2p-76736836/

Why? Because its only racism when it's white on black. Not black on white. The white cracker Zimmerman deserved it cause he followed TM.

Ridiculous. Keep arguing you're point Obama and it'll come back to bite you.


Exhibit A of why we have issues with race and racism in this country.
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:58 AM   #936
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Exhibit A of why we have issues with race and racism in this country.
Didn't he say he was a detective?

Honestly.
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Old 07-21-2013, 11:20 AM   #937
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Didn't he say he was a detective?

Honestly.
One would hope that a detective would want to hear the complete statement before jumping to conclusions.
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Old 07-21-2013, 11:54 AM   #938
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. The white cracker Zimmerman deserved it cause he followed TM.
It's not cracker - it's cracka
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Old 07-21-2013, 12:06 PM   #939
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Exhibit A of why we have issues with race and racism in this country.
Unfortunately we will probably always have some issues with race/culture relations. The question is - how best can we manage it?

Obvious cases of hypocrisy probably hurt more than help. I think the Zimmerman case is such an example.

We also have to be clear when it is a cultural issue vs race issue.

For instance - within the "white" race in America, there are several different cultures and sub-cultures. For instance - the "white" SoCal surfer culture is far different than the "white" backwoods of culture of West Virginia - which is different from the "white" Wall Street banker-elite culture...or the "white" hippies in NorCal...

The same for American blacks, Hispanics, Asians...

Furthermore - these cultures can overlap into to include other races.

It's one crazy looking Venn Diagram and not a melting pot, but we keep moving forward as best we can - incorporating/celebrating the good and tossing out the bad.
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Old 07-21-2013, 12:14 PM   #940
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"I think it's time to have an honest conversation on race in this country." Barack Obama
We've been talking about race since our nation's formation...

We've also had the bloodiest war in the Western Hemisphere, numerous riots, and countless murders around the idea of "race"...

In fact, we've had racial issues since the beginning of recorded history.

That doesn't mean we should stop talking about race - but it's ridiculous to suggest we start something that began since the first man ran into another shade of man from across the valley...
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