Trayvon Martin's murderer George Zimmerman is still a free man - Page 41 - U2 Feedback

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Old 07-16-2013, 10:59 PM   #801
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I'm sorry but your commentary was just silly. You're trying too hard to support an idiot's actions. It was raining, hoodies are great for that, even a self appointed watchman could assess that. There was nothing suspicious going on, period. Now one could argue circumstance, but that's entirely different. But seriously stop trying to defend his suspicion.
Not saying he's not an idiot, just not a racist. Like I mentioned before, he had Trayvon pegged as suspicious before he was even aware of his race. Unless it was a conspiracy, and he pretended to not know Martin was black when the 9/11 operator asked what race he was so he didn't seem racist!

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But out of the two, technicality or not, who at the point prior to the fight since we do not know who provoked who, was doing something wrong?

I think most logical people would say that an armed untrained citizen acting purely on false suspicion following an innocent man would say Zimmerman was in the wrong. Don't you?
Morally yes, legally no
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:05 PM   #802
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Now one could argue circumstance, but that's entirely different. But seriously stop trying to defend his suspicion.
How can you separate the two? The whole reason he was being so "vigilant" was because of the circumstances. Or are you implying he would've followed someone in a hoodie had there not been previous issues in the neighbourhood?


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But out of the two, technicality or not, who at the point prior to the fight since we do not know who provoked who, was doing something wrong?
Following someone you believe to be suspicious is not necessarily "wrong"
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:17 PM   #803
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I also read Stevie Wonder is refusing to ever play again in Florida, or any other state with a Stand Your Ground law... I don't get how this case has brought so much outrage against it, whether its a good law or a bad law, it didn't have a fucking thing to do with this case! It was only brought up in early speculation that GZ might have used it to defend himself in court, but he didn't, because he didn't have as good a case if he went in that direction. So stand your ground or not, this still would have happened and GZ would still have been acquitted. And yet I hear people saying that it declares open season on black people, and other such things. Race HAS to be put into it. It makes no sense to me.
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:22 PM   #804
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Not saying he's not an idiot, just not a racist.
Well I don't think there's really anyway to determine if he is a racist or not. Just don't fall for this trap of trying to defend his actions or pretend you know his feelings because then you become the other end of the spectrum that you're fighting against.

I think both sides(and it fucking sickens me to even say that about this case) have made too much of race and character in this case.

I don't know if it was race related, BUT I can understand why some are seeing it that way.

-Whether or not Zimmerman knew he was black or not right way, who knows, but right or wrong many would see certain clothing attributed to certain races or cultures.
-So Martin was tested for drugs upon his death, but Zimmerman wasn't(I believe there was some suspected RX drug use but it was by admission if I remember correctly) in what just world do we drug test the dead and not the shooter?
-At the end of the day you have a young black man dead, a death that could have been completely avoided if suspicion didn't get the worst in someone.

If I was a black man that still got profiled or looked at suspiciously in 2013(which don't fool yourself, still happens) this case would probably make me scared or angry.


At the end of day I guess what I'm trying to say is that if it was me on that night and I were in Martin's shoes; I probably would have not been followed, if he had I probably would have tried to defend myself the best I could(which would have meant being aggressive*), and I probably wouldn't have been tested for drugs.

*as someone who's trained, you're taught when dealing with a knife or club run if you possibly can, if you're not truly defending someone's life and running is an option, you are no less a man. But if you know you're up against a gun, you go in close in order to disarm or at least point away.

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Morally yes, legally no
I think it's a gray area that has a lot of people upset.
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:34 PM   #805
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Well I don't think there's really anyway to determine if he is a racist or not. Just don't fall for this trap of trying to defend his actions or pretend you know his feelings because then you become the other end of the spectrum that you're fighting against.
No there's not, but why would someone assume he's racist if there isn't any factual evidence that would suggest so. And I didn't mean to defend him, just understand his reasoning. But it's mine or anyone else's best guess.
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Old 07-16-2013, 11:45 PM   #806
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if he had I probably would have tried to defend myself the best I could(which would have meant being aggressive*), and I probably wouldn't have been tested for drugs.
Wouldn't you have first told him to fuck off or at least ask why he was following you? According to GZ, he didn't do any of that and just went immediately to attack mode. I don't think its unreasonable to suggest that in this situation it would have been more appropriate for Trayvon to use words first before fists
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:06 AM   #807
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No there's not, but why would someone assume he's racist if there isn't any factual evidence that would suggest so. And I didn't mean to defend him, just understand his reasoning. But it's mine or anyone else's best guess.
You mean George isn't racist. I just assumed he was because that's all I've been hearing about in the media and from Sharpton and Jesse. And now my DOJ is still looking to charge him in a civil right violation so there has to be something there.

Interesting, I wonder what would have happened had Trayvon survived with only a gunshot wound to his leg. Would my DOJ be looking to charge Trayvon with a civil rights violation for attacking a "crazy ass cracker? Highly doubt it.

The left wants to stir up their base on this case and I feel it will backfire on them.
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:15 AM   #808
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Wouldn't you have first told him to fuck off or at least ask why he was following you? According to GZ, he didn't do any of that and just went immediately to attack mode. I don't think its unreasonable to suggest that in this situation it would have been more appropriate for Trayvon to use words first before fists
If this account is accurate (and it's GZ's account, so taken FWIW) then it seems Trayvon just wanted to beat his ass.

And if it were true, I could understand that feeling of anger. Especially from a 17 year old that likely doesn't know how to deal with such things just yet (hell, some adults never do). So in that sense it is believable enough. Especially if he could have just as easily went home.

On the other hand, let's talk straight...at what point does a good ol' fashioned beatdown become a life/death struggle where TM suddenly decides he's going to spend the rest of his life in prison (GZ said he went for the gun and grabbed it) simply because Mr. Stay-Puft was following him? A guy, GZ, that evidently wasn't posing a physical threat to Martin at all. Or is it more plausible that GZ felt threatened and went for the gun first? And wouldn't that make a LOT more sense considering where he had the gun (back waistband above his hip) and the fact that it was pitch dark and that his own account places TM's knees (as GZ was on his back) in front of where the gun was?

And the fact that no fingerprints or DNA from TM were found on the gun. And the fact that Zimmerman hit him in the heart? (Imagine them both struggling for the gun - movie style - and him managing to get that shot off?). Or would it have been an easier shot if he was nearly unimpeded as he aimed it?

And if GZ truly did go for the gun first, doesn't that change some things?

I had doubted that GZ feared for his life a few days back. But I've moved off of that. I think I was being entirely too speculative about his motivation. At this point I believe it is certainly plausible he did, if not very likely. But I still don't think the gun story quite adds up. So if I can't buy that account, how can I place stock into other portions of his account? I don't think he murdered him regardless, I just don't know if he was totally justified in pulling that gun - EVEN IF - he thought he was going to be killed. Does Trayvon Martin 'freely' pay for his life because Zimmerman can't fight back with his fists?
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:17 AM   #809
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in what just world do we drug test the dead and not the shooter?
Because an autopsy was performed on the deceased whom the police were unable to assess before his death. They had the benefit of speaking with Zimmerman directly after the incident to determine whether he was under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Seems pretty standard to me. No need to make everything suspicious
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:20 AM   #810
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I probably would have not been followed, if he had I probably would have tried to defend myself the best I could(which would have meant being aggressive*), and I probably wouldn't have been tested for drugs.

*as someone who's trained, you're taught when dealing with a knife or club run if you possibly can, if you're not truly defending someone's life and running is an option, you are no less a man. But if you know you're up against a gun, you go in close in order to disarm or at least point away.
You don't defend yourself by initiating physical contact. This is a joke. There's no proof Zimmerman was brandishing his gun.

I'll bite, since you've mentioned it several times. What exactly is your "training"?
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:28 AM   #811
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I don't think he murdered him regardless, I just don't know if he was totally justified in pulling that gun - EVEN IF - he thought he was going to be killed. Does Trayvon Martin 'freely' pay for his life because Zimmerman can't fight back with his fists?
I don't think you really believe this. Are you implying that Zimmerman, assuming he thought he might die, should just give up knowing he had a gun and could possibly save his life? Would the thought ever occur to you in that situation "well, this guy is physically stronger than me... I have a gun... but I'll just let him beat me to death"?
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:23 AM   #812
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There's also this.

New Trayvon lie: Media, LAPD falsely report “rowdy” protests - Salon.com
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Old 07-17-2013, 01:55 AM   #813
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Why give someone that killed someone the benefit of believing everything they say? How does anyone know Trayvon didn't ask him to leave him alone and then this idiot (everybody agrees) pull out his gun and then the fight happened?? And for goodness sakes Zimmerman was no where beaten that badly at all.

If Zimmerman did not have a gun he probably would have stayed in his car.

How anyone can say Zimmerman did not know he was black is just stupid, he saw his hands. And as for the hood up making him look suspicious? It was raining.
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:01 AM   #814
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I don't think you really believe this. Are you implying that Zimmerman, assuming he thought he might die.
Because someone is paranoid and they have a gun this verdict and bad laws make it easy to kill people. Now the standard is what did the killer believe?
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Old 07-17-2013, 02:17 AM   #815
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Because someone is paranoid and they have a gun this verdict and bad laws make it easy to kill people. Now the standard is what did the killer believe?
Or you could quote my whole post in context with the one I quoted
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Old 07-17-2013, 06:57 AM   #816
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How can you separate the two? The whole reason he was being so "vigilant" was because of the circumstances. Or are you implying he would've followed someone in a hoodie had there not been previous issues in the neighbourhood?
I'm just implying that he probably wouldn't have followed me.


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Following someone you believe to be suspicious is not necessarily "wrong"
So are we promoting that everyone with a gun should start following "suspicious" people?
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Old 07-17-2013, 07:03 AM   #817
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Wouldn't you have first told him to fuck off or at least ask why he was following you?
Not if I saw that he had a gun and he wasn't identifying himself.

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According to GZ, he didn't do any of that and just went immediately to attack mode. I don't think its unreasonable to suggest that in this situation it would have been more appropriate for Trayvon to use words first before fists
Excuse me? When did Zimmerman use his words? Apparently he's a lousy follower, so did he ever ID himself?
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Old 07-17-2013, 07:10 AM   #818
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And now my DOJ is still looking to charge him in a civil right violation so there has to be something there.
Did you hear this from Fox News? There has been no mention from the DOJ about a civil right case yet. The right just wants to stir up something.
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Old 07-17-2013, 07:33 AM   #819
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At the risk of adding more to a discussion about a case that I feel has long ago surpassed any sort of proportionate coverage, I kind of have to agree with deep here in that it's bizarre to me that so much of the discussion is based on the assumption that what GZ says happened that night actually happened that way. All we have is his account and to have that as a starting point is at best deeply flawed.
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Old 07-17-2013, 07:36 AM   #820
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Tweet from Anonymous last night:

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Why isnt the NRA saying the tragedy wouldn’t have happened if Trayvon Martin was armed,& calling on young black men to get themselves guns?
I generally have little time for Anonymous but it's a fair point. After gun incidents we always hear the NRA saying "if only the teachers or janitors or people sleeping at home or walking around the mall had been armed, this wouldn't have happened..." ETA: And yes I know that Trayvon was 17 (just turned?) but it's just an interesting observation about the NRA's priorities.
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