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Old 05-19-2012, 12:28 AM   #381
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We know that right before the confrontation, Zimmerman lost Trayvon. We know that the only injuries Trayvon had were a bullet wound, and bruised knuckles. We know that Zimmerman had a fractured nose, black eyes, and a head wound. An eye-witness now says that they saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman, beating him "MMA style." I really don't feel like my version of events is jumping to toooooooo many conclusions.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:43 AM   #382
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So Zimmerman decides to follow a 17 year old for a few blocks, I guess he deserves to be beaten to death...
Except he's not dead. Trayvon is. Trayvon didn't start this-he was just walking home. Had Zimmerman not followed him, none of this would've happened.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:44 AM   #383
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Except he's not dead. Trayvon is. Trayvon didn't start this-he was just walking home. Had Zimmerman not followed him, none of this would've happened.
If Zimmerman didn't shoot, and Trayvon beat him to death, what would you say?
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:44 AM   #384
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We know that right before the confrontation, Zimmerman lost Trayvon.
Could've found him again
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:46 AM   #385
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Could've found him again
He certainly could've, and that's one reason we'll probably never know for CERTAIN what happened in those few minutes. But IMO that seems unlikely; he'd stopped following him, and Trayvon had run away. I doubt he would've hung up with the police, and managed to run Trayvon down (whom he had no real way of finding) within a minute or two.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:50 AM   #386
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All it would've taken was to catch a glimpse of him in the distance to continue pursuing. You could very well be right, but there's so little we know and an infinite number of combinations of events at that moment. That's all I'm saying. I mean, there could even be a completely different scenario that still makes Zimmerman seem to be innocent.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:53 AM   #387
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All it would've taken was to catch a glimpse of him in the distance to continue pursuing. You could very well be right, but there's so little we know and an infinite number of combinations of events at that moment. That's all I'm saying. I mean, there could even be a completely different scenario that still makes Zimmerman seem to be innocent.
I can respect this opinion and I'd agree with that. It just bugs me sometimes that so many people seem to believe the only way "justice" can be "served" in this case is if Zimmerman's convicted of murder, and put away for life, when there's really very little evidence to say he's guilty of second degree.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:55 AM   #388
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If Zimmerman didn't shoot, and Trayvon beat him to death, what would you say?
Depends on the circumstance. If Zimmerman had done nothing to provoke Trayvon and he'd beat him to death for the hell of it, Trayvon would absolutely be in the wrong and I would definitely expect him to be punished.

But if he attacked Zimmerman because Zimmerman either was harassing him or perceived to be harassing him, which, again, is likely what he was thinking when he did go after Zimmerman in this situation, then he's just as justified in his response as Zimmerman supposedly is in his, right? I've asked that before in this thread: Zimmerman can "stand his ground" based on the supposed threat Trayvon posed and that's okay, but Trayvon couldn't "stand his ground" based on the supposed threat Zimmerman posed to him?
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:57 AM   #389
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I can respect this opinion and I'd agree with that. It just bugs me sometimes that so many people seem to believe the only way "justice" can be "served" in this case is if Zimmerman's convicted of murder, and put away for life, when there's really very little evidence to say he's guilty of second degree.


I agree. It's just too difficult to say right now and all the media attention sure isn't helping people see things objectively. No matter the outcome of the trial, it's going to be a shit storm afterward
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:58 AM   #390
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But if he attacked Zimmerman because Zimmerman either was harassing him or perceived to be harassing him, which, again, is likely what he was thinking when he did go after Zimmerman in this situation, then he's just as justified in his response as Zimmerman supposedly is in his, right? I've asked that before in this thread: Zimmerman can "stand his ground" based on the supposed threat Trayvon posed and that's okay, but Trayvon couldn't "stand his ground" based on the supposed threat Zimmerman posed to him?
As far as I'm concerned, it's only "standing your ground" if you're being physically harmed. If Trayvon is going "MMA style" on Zimmerman's head, Zimmerman has the right to defend himself; If Zimmerman follows Trayvon for a block and then stops, Trayvon does not have the right to attack.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:59 AM   #391
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I agree. It's just too difficult to say right now and all the media attention sure isn't helping people see things objectively. No matter the outcome of the trial, it's going to be a shit storm afterward
It really, really is. If he gets acquitted, I don't even know what to expect.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:08 AM   #392
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he killed a kid, that was just walking home minding his own business
let's hope he does some jail time
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:51 AM   #393
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And I find it amazing that indy is accusing others of abandoning threads when the going gets tough
He asked me to make more detailed posts. I did so on the topic of same sex marriage and he ignored them.

Ramifications, you guys.
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:28 AM   #394
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To me, this remains primarily a gun issue.

Guns are why small crimes become big murders.
exactly. i don't care if martin did punch him. that only gave zimmerman the right to fight back with his fists (or better yet, he could've just gone back to his fucking house and called the cops). if i punch you in the face, it's totally cool for you to shoot me? even though i'm not waving a gun around too or even threatening to shoot you? it just seems a bit absurd to me.

i've still yet to hear anything that justified him being shot. yes martin delivered several blows to zimmerman, but there's obviously been no proof as to whether they were unprovoked or in self defense. i figure that'll come out in the trial.
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Old 05-19-2012, 12:13 PM   #395
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exactly. i don't care if martin did punch him. that only gave zimmerman the right to fight back with his fists (or better yet, he could've just gone back to his fucking house and called the cops). if i punch you in the face, it's totally cool for you to shoot me? even though i'm not waving a gun around too or even threatening to shoot you? it just seems a bit absurd to me.

i've still yet to hear anything that justified him being shot. yes martin delivered several blows to zimmerman, but there's obviously been no proof as to whether they were unprovoked or in self defense. i figure that'll come out in the trial.
I don't completely agree with this, though I understand where you're coming from. It is possible and not all that uncommon to kill someone with your fists, especially when you're also slamming their head on the pavement. It's also possible to receive permanent brain damage to varying degrees. I knew a guy who got sucker punched outside a bar when I was younger; he fell and hit his head on the curb and was never the same person again afterward. If I was in a situation where I felt I was in this sort of danger, I would take every measure availale to make sure that doesn't happen. Does that apply to this case? I don't know
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:01 PM   #396
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One would wonder about the safety of letting Zimmerman walk free. Regardless of self defense, being in a fight that was supposedly "that serious" is bound to have long term effects on someone. I doubt he'll want to go anywhere without his gun now. I view him as a massive liability. This is a guy that's paranoid enough to call the police over people just walking around a neighborhood. Now one of the people he was paranoid about went after him and he had to kill them.

He'll probably just be more trigger happy in the future.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:18 PM   #397
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One would wonder about the safety of letting Zimmerman walk free. Regardless of self defense, being in a fight that was supposedly "that serious" is bound to have long term effects on someone. I doubt he'll want to go anywhere without his gun now. I view him as a massive liability. This is a guy that's paranoid enough to call the police over people just walking around a neighborhood. Now one of the people he was paranoid about went after him and he had to kill them.

He'll probably just be more trigger happy in the future.
You might be right, but you can't lock someone up for that reason. And if he is innocent of any wrong doing, isn't that just placing blame on a victim? What if someone were to say the same about a rape victim. Again, it might not even be applicable in this case, but time will tell I suppose
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:44 PM   #398
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You might be right, but you can't lock someone up for that reason. And if he is innocent of any wrong doing, isn't that just placing blame on a victim? What if someone were to say the same about a rape victim. Again, it might not even be applicable in this case, but time will tell I suppose
That's the trouble I have with this. I was raised around guns and I was always taught that even if I fear for my life, never try to shoot someone in a vital area, always try to disarm them if you can. Whether it's by hitting them in the head with your gun, or shooting an arm or limb, etc. Just because a gun can kill people doesn't mean you should use it for that. Seemed like Zimmerman was just aiming to kill (even if there was a struggle, he was more likely to miss or hit trayvon in the chest, not the back of his head). It was a kill shot. If he had disarmed Trayvon, and Trayvon was honestly being a violent maniac, then Trayvon would have been put away for assault.
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Old 05-19-2012, 01:48 PM   #399
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(even if there was a struggle, he was more likely to miss or hit trayvon in the chest, not the back of his head).
I'm pretty sure I read he died from a single gunshot wound to the chest.
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Old 05-19-2012, 02:00 PM   #400
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Yeah, he was shot in the chest. If Zimmerman WAS just going for the kill shot, that wouldn't really be the best option.
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