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#21 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,782
Local Time: 09:47 AM
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Quote:
"Subjective truth is wrong." Quite the contrary, I'm being realistic. I do think that the death penalty is wrong: that is a subjective value judgment based upon either rational or irrational motives, depending on your point of view. However, that is what I believe. In the same vein, cultures make subjective value judgments all the time, and that is okay. Does that mean that we cannot criticize outside cultures that we view as "wrong"? Of course not! So what am I saying? I guess there is one "absolute truth": all "truth" is subjective. Is this a play on semantics? Perhaps. However, "absolute truth" takes on a certain connotation on the plane of "mythic speech"--in other words, it is so "sacred" that no one is allowed to question it. Those who question so-called "absolute truths" are, henceforth, "evil" or, in a structuralist sense, "the Other." "Truth," for me, does not exist; it is simply subjective individual and cultural judgments that are a necessity and an inevitability. However, with that, none of these judgments are, by default, "good" over the others. Melon |
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#22 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,604
Local Time: 09:47 AM
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Either (God exists) or NOT (God exists). Exactly one of these statements qualifies as an "absolute truth." |
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#23 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Gulf Coast State of Mine
Posts: 3,405
Local Time: 08:47 AM
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Regarding the later posts in this thread about absoulte truth and subjectiveness and such, I have to agree with Melon. As deplorable as I think salvery is here as an 2002 American, I honestly don't know what my views would have been if I were born in Virginia, Alabama or especially the states now known as Kansas or Missouri in 1848. I always tell myself today that I am a Unionist and I am opposed to slavery in any form, but if I were around in antebellum times, much less "biblical" times when it was even more common, would I have known any moral concept of the practice? Like Melon says, it does not mean we should refrain from criticizing outside cultures, as I frequently do the current slave-holding regime in Sudan. It would be ideal if every generation and every culture had a set code of right and wrong that everyone agreed with; but reality is the obstacle to that. ~U2Alabama |
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#24 |
Offishul Kitteh Doctor
Forum Moderator Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Taking care of kitties
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I guess I'm looking at absolute truth in terms of how God sees things. Of course, there are some things the Bible doesn't talk about, so I don't know exactly what God thinks.
I guess an analogy might be that you go to another country and do something that is legal in the U.S. but is illegal there - you didn't know it was wrong, but according to a higher authority it was, and you pay the consequences.
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#25 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,782
Local Time: 09:47 AM
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Quote:
And certainly, there is the absolute question: Does God exist? As humans, we can try and answer that all we want, but all answers will fall under the category of "subjective." Melon |
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#26 | ||
Rock n' Roll Doggie
ALL ACCESS Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 7,604
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But even if we can't see God or the absence of God with our own eyes, he either exists or does not exist. And please, nobody bring up Godel's incompleteness theorem. |
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#27 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 05:47 AM
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Relativism makes for easier conversation at any given moment, but forces us to accept atrocities - you cannot condemn Hitler because it (the millions he slaughter for starters) was only evil in your eyes, not his. Rather, I think we must undertake the difficult, unpopular task of discovering and teaching absolute truth. |
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#28 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,782
Local Time: 09:47 AM
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Quote:
And who defines "absolute truth" if we are to teach it? By that alone, "absolute truth" is a contradiction in terms, as a subjective individual or organization will have to define what is "absolute." And what would you do if the gatekeepers to what is "absolute truth" condemn you in the process? Now that their ideas have taken on proportions of "mythic speech," only someone "deviant" (e.g., "terrorist sympathizer") will challenge it. Melon |
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#29 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
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If all truth is subjective, then you cannot say Hitler or Pat Buchanan are wrong, for that is only your (and many others) subjective viewpoint. From my prior example, torturing babies for fun is wrong at all times in all places for all people. It is an absolute. |
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#30 | ||
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 11,782
Local Time: 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Quote:
Melon |
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#31 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Southern California
Posts: 22,071
Local Time: 05:47 AM
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Melon,
__________________Are you absolutely sure of this? I appreciate your intelligent debate on the subject. NBC |
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