Torture/Waterboarding: Discussion/Debate Thread

[phillyfan26]

Well of course they would have to make sure it's a correct guy, but I haven't seen any stories of completely innocent people being waterboarded.

There's no way to make sure. Not in the United States of America.

 

[phillyfan26]

How does a terror cell work?

Just because you are in a terror cell does not mean you know everything. Terrorists are taught two things: motivation against a certain enemy and how to carry out a specific job. They don't know the entire terror cell, its plans, its people. They know what they're supposed to do.

 

[anitram]

Every Christian I know believes in the Bible.

And it is full of a lot worse than this water torture, which I do not support.

I find most of the old testament to be quite grotesque.

 

[phillyfan26]

Every Christian I know believes in the Bible.

I actually am Christian but do not believe in most of the Bible.

 

[deep]

I believe in the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.


I reject much of the horror, racism, murder, prejudice, sexism that I was taught in Sunday School, with the Bible Stories.

These stories conditioned me to be intolerant of others with the justification that it was morally permissible. I no longer believe that.

 

[BVS]

I pretty much expected you would really answer the question. I don't think Jesus ever expressed a "by any means necessary" approach.

Look, I obviously would never condone waterboarding my friend who owes me 5 bucks, but a terrorist who would stop at nothing to kill me and you and destroy my country, I'm alright with. I believe God would prefer that to perversion of religion and terrorist attacks killing thousands of innocent lives. How many more Jews would have been killed if nothing was done to stop Hitler?

Wow, you are horrible with analogies.

Do some people in here feel sorry for waterboarded terrorists?

Look up, did you see that? That's the point flying over your head.

 

[BVS]

but I haven't seen any stories of completely innocent people being waterboarded.

Yeah, because that's something they would admit to...

 

[2861U2]

I believe in the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.


I reject much of the horror, racism, murder, prejudice, sexism that I was taught in Sunday School, with the Bible Stories.

These stories conditioned me to be intolerant of others with the justification that it was morally permissible. I no longer believe that.

Well yes, there's obviously a difference between believing in the stories in the Bible and supporting every single action in the Bible.

 

[2861U2]

Look up, did you see that? That's the point flying over your head.

Well that's the belief that I seem to be getting among some here.

 

[2861U2]

Wow, you are horrible with analogies.

Look up. That's my point flying over your head.

 

[phillyfan26]

You. Can't. Prove. It.

You can't prove the person you've captured is a terrorist.

 

[deep]

Look, I obviously would never condone waterboarding my friend who owes me 5 bucks,

Do some people in here feel sorry for waterboarded terrorists?

Five bucks?

Probably not.

How about a thousand or ten grand?

Now, that is some serious money.




I think anyone that is against it 100%
is just be a softie, and may feel sorry for terrorists getting harsh treatment.


That is one reason why W is qualified to be Commander and Chief
and Obama may not have the stomach for the job.

 

[deep]

Well yes, there's obviously a difference between believing in the stories in the Bible and supporting every single action in the Bible.

Do you support the actions of Samson?

 

[deep]

I find most of the old testament to be quite grotesque.

There are many not so nice stories in the New Testament also.

 

[BVS]

Well that's the belief that I seem to be getting among some here.

Well, then you are wrong.

 

[anitram]

There are many not so nice stories in the New Testament also.

Yes, indeed. Although the violence of the old testament is largely gone (replaced by other issues, maybe).

 

[BVS]

Look up. That's my point flying over your head.

Nice try, but it doesn't work that way.

Torture and "nothing done to stop Hitler" aren't even comparable.

NO ONE, let me repeat, NO ONE is suggesting not doing anything. So don't be so sloppy with your analogies.

 

[2861U2]

Do you support the actions of Samson?

To be honest, that's a really tough one.

 

[deep]

To be honest, that's a really tough one.

He could be considered the first suicide bomber in recorded history.

 

[2861U2]

He could be considered the first suicide bomber in recorded history.

Exactly, and that's what I was thinking when I was debating myself.

 

[BonosSaint]

Would you say then waterboarding would be an acceptable interrogation technique for an enemy to use on an American soldier to obtain information that enemy considers vital? In a pragmatic kind of way.

 

[martha]

God is just,

This alone should scare the shit out of anyone who even for a minute thinks torture is acceptable for any reason.

 

[phillyfan26]

You can't prove the person you've captured is a terrorist.

This is so simple, and is the main reason why torture doesn't make sense.

Someone attempt to dispute this. Please. I want to embarass someone.

 

[martha]

Have any of these loving Christian advocates of torture even listened to the victims of torture? Nigerians? Others sponsored by Amnesty International? Or is it easier to digest it if you don't have to face it?

 

[Irvine511]

That's absolutely right.

And the idea that if we don't torture them they won't torture us is outrageous.

Hey terrorists, here's an idea. How about you tell what you know right away, and then you won't have to be "tortured." I don't have sympathy for a "tortured" terrorist at all. Waterboarding is used as a last resort, so terrorists have every opportunity to avoid it. They choose not to though, because they know it will cause an outrage here in America, and therefore put the focus on waterboarding rather than the actual important issue of potential attacks.

you're right. we're no better than them. we obviously have no moral high ground, we have nothing to defend, we aren't any different. we just have to kill them first.

if that's the attitude, they've already won.

you are no better than Josef Stalin, Pol Pot, or Kim Jong Il.

 

[Irvine511]

This alone should scare the shit out of anyone who even for a minute thinks torture is acceptable for any reason.

i cannot believe there's even debate about this. it dumbfounds me.

Christianity has nothing to do with it.

TORTURE DOES NOT WORK.

it gets you bad information. the man who is being tortured will tell you WHATEVER YOU WANT TO HEAR in order to STOP BEING TORTURED.

thus, you get what is known as BAD INFORMATION.

286whatever, you do realize that your boy, John McCain, is AGAINST waterboarding?

 

[deep]

286whatever, you do realize that your boy, John McCain, is AGAINST waterboarding?

I think anyone that is against it 100%
is just be a softie, and may feel sorry for terrorists getting harsh treatment.


That is one reason why W is qualified to be Commander and Chief
and Obama may not have the stomach for the job.

 

[BVS]

286whatever, you do realize that your boy, John McCain, is AGAINST waterboarding?

You Republicans will be voting for a terrorist enabler!!!

Stay home, don't vote.

 

[Bono's shades]

Hey terrorists, here's an idea. How about you tell what you know right away, and then you won't have to be "tortured." I don't have sympathy for a "tortured" terrorist at all. Waterboarding is used as a last resort, so terrorists have every opportunity to avoid it. They choose not to though, because they know it will cause an outrage here in America, and therefore put the focus on waterboarding rather than the actual important issue of potential attacks.

Has it ever occured to you that the suspected terrorists aren't giving any information because they simply don't know the answer to whatever question is being asked? Isn't that a much simpler explanation than "they are trying to get the interregators to torture them so the U.S. will look bad"?

Oh, I forgot. You need a way to reconcile your Christian beliefs with your support of torture. Carry on.

 

[Diemen]

You Republicans will be voting for a terrorist enabler!!!

Terrorist loving conservatives...