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Old 02-03-2008, 02:51 PM   #21
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Originally posted by 2861U2


And the idea that if we don't torture them they won't torture us is outrageous.

Who said this? Wow, you like to put words in people's mouth a lot.

It's a matter of lowering yourself to their standards, becoming a monster to stop a monster.

Let me ask you a serious question, how do you justify your Christian beliefs and your support of torture?
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Old 02-03-2008, 02:52 PM   #22
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Let me ask you a serious question, how do you justify your Christian beliefs and your support of torture?
Gymnastics.
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Old 02-03-2008, 02:54 PM   #23
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Originally posted by diamond


We are and have save lives thru different interogation techinques.

No one has proven this. That article didn't provide any real information.
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Originally posted by diamond

People who stand in the way of interrogation techniques that have saved innocent lives are actually a terrorist enablers.
Just plain dumb.

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Originally posted by diamond

Furthur, in a broader sense one could argue that liberalism is a mental disorder.

Diamond with your debating skills you couldn't argue yourself out of a paper bag, let alone come close to arguing this.

Lay off the hypocritical soapboxing for awhile, will ya?
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Old 02-03-2008, 02:57 PM   #24
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Furthur, in a broader sense one could argue that liberalism is a mental disorder.
In a not-so-broad sense, one could argue that conservatism is intentional ignorance.
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:11 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Who said this? Wow, you like to put words in people's mouth a lot.
I'm not saying I've heard it in here, but I've heard from Democrats.


Quote:
Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar

Let me ask you a serious question, how do you justify your Christian beliefs and your support of torture?
Because there are people in the world that are pure evil, and I certainly hope no one disputes that fact. I support waterboarding (or whatever is necessary) to protect America and my family and loved ones. God is just, and the Bible mentions many times that wars will happen. The Bible also mentions "destroying the wicked people" in times of war.

Look, I obviously would never condone waterboarding my friend who owes me 5 bucks, but a terrorist who would stop at nothing to kill me and you and destroy my country, I'm alright with. I believe God would prefer that to perversion of religion and terrorist attacks killing thousands of innocent lives. How many more Jews would have been killed if nothing was done to stop Hitler?

Again, there's a way to avoid waterboarding by just cooperating in the first place...

Do some people in here feel sorry for waterboarded terrorists?
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:13 PM   #26
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How do you know that the guy you have your hands on is (a) a terrorist and (b) in possession of knowledge that is relevant and helpful to you? Maybe he doesn't "talk" at first because he has nothing to say and you got the wrong guy.

You know, sort of like those poor bastards that make it out of jail after 20 years when DNA evidence clears them.
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:14 PM   #27
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Quote:
Let me ask you a serious question, how do you justify your Christian beliefs and your support of torture?
Every Christian I know believes in the Bible.

And it is full of a lot worse than this water torture, which I do not support.

One may ask, how does one fall into the "bad thinking" trap?

Accepting certain stories "on faith" as being proper and even righteous does not negate the horror inflicted upon others.

What is worse? Clubbing a thousand people to death?
Sounds like a horrible death, to be beaten to death. Times one thousand.

"And Samson said, With the jawbone of an ass, heaps upon heaps, with the jaw of an ass have I slain a thousand men."

or water boarding?
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:14 PM   #28
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Clearly you don't understand two things if you are for waterboarding:

1) The law of your country.

2) How a terror cell works.
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:15 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by anitram
How do you know that the guy you have your hands on is (a) a terrorist and (b) in possession of knowledge that is relevant and helpful to you? Maybe he doesn't "talk" at first because he has nothing to say and you got the wrong guy.

You know, sort of like those poor bastards that make it out of jail after 20 years when DNA evidence clears them.
Well of course they would have to make sure it's a correct guy, but I haven't seen any stories of completely innocent people being waterboarded.
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:16 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by phillyfan26
Clearly you don't understand two things if you are for waterboarding:

1) The law of your country.

2) How a terror cell works.

How does a terror cell work?
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:16 PM   #31
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Originally posted by 2861U2
Well of course they would have to make sure it's a correct guy, but I haven't seen any stories of completely innocent people being waterboarded.
There's no way to make sure. Not in the United States of America.
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:17 PM   #32
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How does a terror cell work?
Just because you are in a terror cell does not mean you know everything. Terrorists are taught two things: motivation against a certain enemy and how to carry out a specific job. They don't know the entire terror cell, its plans, its people. They know what they're supposed to do.
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:18 PM   #33
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Originally posted by deep

Every Christian I know believes in the Bible.

And it is full of a lot worse than this water torture, which I do not support.

I find most of the old testament to be quite grotesque.
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:18 PM   #34
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Every Christian I know believes in the Bible.
I actually am Christian but do not believe in most of the Bible.
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:23 PM   #35
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I believe in the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.


I reject much of the horror, racism, murder, prejudice, sexism that I was taught in Sunday School, with the Bible Stories.

These stories conditioned me to be intolerant of others with the justification that it was morally permissible. I no longer believe that.
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:24 PM   #36
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I pretty much expected you would really answer the question. I don't think Jesus ever expressed a "by any means necessary" approach.

Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2

Look, I obviously would never condone waterboarding my friend who owes me 5 bucks, but a terrorist who would stop at nothing to kill me and you and destroy my country, I'm alright with. I believe God would prefer that to perversion of religion and terrorist attacks killing thousands of innocent lives. How many more Jews would have been killed if nothing was done to stop Hitler?
Wow, you are horrible with analogies.


Quote:
Originally posted by 2861U2

Do some people in here feel sorry for waterboarded terrorists?


Look up, did you see that? That's the point flying over your head.
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:25 PM   #37
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Originally posted by 2861U2

but I haven't seen any stories of completely innocent people being waterboarded.


Yeah, because that's something they would admit to...
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:29 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by deep
I believe in the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.


I reject much of the horror, racism, murder, prejudice, sexism that I was taught in Sunday School, with the Bible Stories.

These stories conditioned me to be intolerant of others with the justification that it was morally permissible. I no longer believe that.
Well yes, there's obviously a difference between believing in the stories in the Bible and supporting every single action in the Bible.
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:30 PM   #39
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Originally posted by BonoVoxSupastar


Look up, did you see that? That's the point flying over your head.
Well that's the belief that I seem to be getting among some here.
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Old 02-03-2008, 03:31 PM   #40
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Wow, you are horrible with analogies.

Look up. That's my point flying over your head.
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