Topless Weightlifting Pictures Online = Immoral, Ineffective Teacher?

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MrsSpringsteen

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With the internet does anyone have a private life anymore separate from the workplace, school, etc? Potential employers even look you up online if you have a MySpace or anything like that. Of course it's best to refrain from anything that's potentially embarrassing and/or a problem, but where do you draw the line?

And there's the other question of whether these photos are art and whether or not they have any bearing on her effectiveness as a teacher. And if they do violate the "higher moral standards". The student makes a great point about Georgia O'Keeffe, I doubt that this teacher's photos are on that level but who is to say when something is art and when it isn't? Sometimes it's obvious, sometimes not-and most often isn't it in the eye of the beholder? And far too subjective to ruin someone's life and career over? I don't believe that her certification should be revoked. It's also dubious given the feud with the other teacher.

I don't know why they mentioned Bush's daughters, but I left it in just for fun :wink:


"AUSTIN, Texas (AP) -- Until they found the topless photos, Austin High School officials considered Tamara Hoover an excellent art teacher with a knack for helping students find their creativity.

Now, she's fighting for her job.

The photos, which were posted on Flickr.com by her partner, depict Hoover in the shower, lifting weights, getting dressed, in bed and doing other routine activities.

Hoover said Friday the photos are art and makes no apologies.

"I'm an artist and I'm going to participate in the arts," Hoover said. "If that's not something they want me to do then I want to be told that. I don't feel as if I was doing anything that was beyond expectations."

The school district said the photos were inappropriate and violate the "higher moral standard" expected of public school teachers. As she was escorted out of class last month she was told that she's become an ineffective teacher.

The district wants to revoke her teaching certification, which would keep her out of Texas classrooms permanently. Hoover will appeal the ruling and is prepared to take the case to court, she said.

Hoover's abrupt dismissal highlights a new concern for employees: Your boss has Internet access, too.

"People don't realize when they put their entire diary out there, they're giving very private information to the public," said Kate Brooks, director of career services for liberal arts students at the University of Texas at Austin.

The photos came to light last month as a result of a feud over ceramics equipment with another art teacher, according to sworn affidavits. Students who had seen the pictures showed the teacher, who then notified school officials.

Austen Clements, one of Hoover's students, noted that many artists have nude pictures, including Georgia O'Keeffe.

"If Georgia O'Keeffe wanted to teach at Austin High, I don't think they'd say, 'No, you have nude pictures online,"' Clements said."
 
[Q]The district wants to revoke her teaching certification, which would keep her out of Texas classrooms permanently. [/Q]

The state would have to do this.

And...I have pictures of myself I need to remove.....TTYL
 
Dreadsox said:
[Q]The district wants to revoke her teaching certification, which would keep her out of Texas classrooms permanently. [/Q]

The state would have to do this.

And...I have pictures of myself I need to remove.....TTYL

:giggle:


Dear Lord what will happen to me when I run for office if these posts turn up.........:shifty::yikes:





(that's actually a real fear I have...I've considered leaving interference because of that but i just keep coming back)
 
Tough call, that one.

I think revoking her certification is a bit extreme. I do wonder the extent to which she loses some "credibility" with her students when they've all seen her naked.

But if she's able to keep doing her job, and the students still respect her as their teacher, and it's not a distraction, then I don't know that she should lose her job. Especially in the public school setting. (In the school where I teach, a private parochial school--she'd be gone for sure. But again that's a private school. . .).

The internet is not a private place. Anyone who thinks their privacy is being invaded because people looked them up on the internet doesn't understand what the internet is. Of course your privacy is being invaded if you don't KNOW information, pictures etc are being put up online. But that doesn't seem to be the case here.

I don't know...
 
nbcrusader said:
What privacy can one expect when you stand naked in front of a camera?

Well if you post them on the internet, none I suppose-but what does that have to do with her performance as a teacher?

Granted I would not have wanted to see any naked/topless pictures of any of my teachers (and probably would have been thinking about them naked when I was in class :wink: ) but is it really that much of a distraction that she should lose her job?
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
Well if you post them on the internet, none I suppose-but what does that have to do with her performance as a teacher?

Student access to nude pictures of a teacher affects the teacher's ability to command the respect, attention and focus of the students.

Frankly, I see a rule barring such displays as for the teacher's protection.
 
In junior high, I had a teacher that posed for playboy. By the time I had her she was in her late 50's. Every year someone had the magazine with her pictures in it. She openly admitted it and then moved on with her lesson. She was respected and somewhat feared. :wink: Perhaps this is because so much time had gone by?

nbcrusader said:



Frankly, I see a rule barring such displays as for the teacher's protection.

What about teachers like the one I had?
 
It is clear it became an issue she had to deal with on a regular basis.

Some may deal better with such issues, and the passage of time certainly helps. But it is clearly a classroom distraction.

Which is easier to manager? A simple rule about posing nude, or a highly complex rule about posing nude, passage of time and ability to communicate prior conduct effectively?
 
What about a rule about dealing with it if it becomes a problem? Barring a person from access to her chosen profession is an extreme reaction.

Anyway, it wouldn't be considered a problem - or even very noteworthy - where I come from. There would probably be a few giggling teenagers though...
 
I don't think she should have her license revoked because of that!

I went to a very conservative, religiously strict high school and one of our chem teachers got caught making videotapes of his neighbor undressing. He'd stand outside her window and tape her. Surprisingly, the school let the law take care of it and he still teaches. In fact, the students made a big stink about the possibility of firing him because everyone loved him.

His case is even more extreme since he broke laws. Posing nude for "art"? Why not, that's her business. If she's OK with students finding out and possibly seeing the pictures, then I don't think it has any impact on her value as a teacher.
 
silja said:
Barring a person from access to her chosen profession is an extreme reaction.

I agree. It seems like overkill to take away her teaching certification. If it really is a problem at the school--with the students, parents, etc--then I could see them letting her go from that particular school. But to make it impossible for her to teach in the state? It's not like she's a pedophile or something.

I really think the school needs to ascertain whether there is really a problem and make the decision from there, not just find out about the pictures and sack her on the spot.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
I don't think she should have her license revoked because of that!

I went to a very conservative, religiously strict high school and one of our chem teachers got caught making videotapes of his neighbor undressing. He'd stand outside her window and tape her. Surprisingly, the school let the law take care of it and he still teaches. In fact, the students made a big stink about the possibility of firing him because everyone loved him.

His case is even more extreme since he broke laws. Posing nude for "art"? Why not, that's her business. If she's OK with students finding out and possibly seeing the pictures, then I don't think it has any impact on her value as a teacher.

I don't think these two situations are really the same though. On the one hand you have a woman CHOOSING to put nude pictures of herself out there, on the other you've essentially got a peeping tom, taking pictures of a woman who didn't realize she was being videotaped. To be honest, I'm kinda shocked this guy didn't get in more trouble. Again, I don't know the people in your situation, but I also went to a conservative, religiously strict high school and one of the things that concerned me is the tendency to look the other way when inappropriate things happened. Like it was more embarrassing to admitt that some revered authority figure messed up than to cover it up. I don't know. Again, I don't know your situation....
 
I know it's different, I just thought of it because it's another example of "teachers doing things in their spare time that we might not/don't think is appropriate". Our teacher was on leave until he worked out the legal ramifications, and then he was allowed back when he agreed to counselling for the peeping obsession and family counselling (he has a young family). The student body put a lot of pressure on the administration to let him back because he was a great teacher and baseball coach.

The teacher in question is CHOOSING to put nude pics of herself online, just like the students, faculty, and administration can CHOOSE to look at them, or ignore them and judge her teaching abilities based on her teaching. I don't agree with it myself, but last time I checked, posing nude for photography doesn't make you a sex offender or a pervert. If it really bothers some people, they can ask for a different teacher or go to another school.

The problem with laying her job and/or revoking her license is that to me it sets a dangerous precedent. What about teachers that get drunk every weekend? Or enjoy strip clubs? Or smoke a joint every now and then? Where do you draw the line? If everyone got to say so-and-so must be a shitty teacher just because s/he does this or that on the weekends, we'd be left with no one by Christ himself.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:


The problem with laying her job and/or revoking her license is that to me it sets a dangerous precedent. What about teachers that get drunk every weekend? Or enjoy strip clubs? Or smoke a joint every now and then? Where do you draw the line? If everyone got to say so-and-so must be a shitty teacher just because s/he does this or that on the weekends, we'd be left with no one by Christ himself.

Indeed. And I'm not sure Jesus could get a job teaching in the public schools :)

I agree with you though. Especially in the public schools teacher's private lives should be their private lives. They should only be judged on their job performance. The only way private life should be a factor is if that private life interferes with job performance (i.e. teacher always shows up late with a hangover Monday morning.) That, I think, is the only issue with the case on this thread.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:
The teacher in question is CHOOSING to put nude pics of herself online, just like the students, faculty, and administration can CHOOSE to look at them, or ignore them and judge her teaching abilities based on her teaching. I don't agree with it myself, but last time I checked, posing nude for photography doesn't make you a sex offender or a pervert. If it really bothers some people, they can ask for a different teacher or go to another school.

The problem with laying her job and/or revoking her license is that to me it sets a dangerous precedent. What about teachers that get drunk every weekend? Or enjoy strip clubs? Or smoke a joint every now and then? Where do you draw the line? If everyone got to say so-and-so must be a shitty teacher just because s/he does this or that on the weekends, we'd be left with no one by Christ himself.

Funny, a teacher could utter an offensive word and get tossed in an instant.

I think we want to create the best environment where students can respect, admire and follow teachers. Like it or not, actions taken outside the classroom can affect the atmosphere inside the classroom.

It really doesn't make sense to give the teacher total freedom (no guidelines) and in turn tell the students they still have to understand, respect and not be distracted by what the teacher has done. What happened to role models???
 
nbcrusader said:


Funny, a teacher could utter an offensive word and get tossed in an instant.

I think we want to create the best environment where students can respect, admire and follow teachers. Like it or not, actions taken outside the classroom can affect the atmosphere inside the classroom.

It really doesn't make sense to give the teacher total freedom (no guidelines) and in turn tell the students they still have to understand, respect and not be distracted by what the teacher has done. What happened to role models???

What kind of guidelines are you talking about?

What about role models? Is my jr. high teacher not a good role model b/c she posed for playboy when she was 21 years old? Does her 30 year teaching career get overlooked b/c of this?
 
nbcrusader said:


Funny, a teacher could utter an offensive word and get tossed in an instant.

I think we want to create the best environment where students can respect, admire and follow teachers. Like it or not, actions taken outside the classroom can affect the atmosphere inside the classroom.

It really doesn't make sense to give the teacher total freedom (no guidelines) and in turn tell the students they still have to understand, respect and not be distracted by what the teacher has done. What happened to role models???

I agree, but I'm curious as to what we'd define as inappropriate behavior from teachers. I'd be just as upset to learn my favorite male teacher was blowing his salary at strip joints every weekend or cheating on his wife than I would be to learn a female teacher had posed in Playboy back in the day or posed nude for someone's photography project.

When I think of all of my most loved and respected role models (my dad, my favorite athlete, theologian, musician, etc)......yep, all of them have been in at least one questionable situation in the past, depending on who gets to define the "questionable" behavior.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:


When I think of all of my most loved and respected role models......yep, all of them have been in at least one questionable situation in the past, depending on who gets to define the "questionable" behavior.

Exactly. Who is going to come up with this list of guidelines? How would it read?

1. no posing nude
2. no strip clubs
3. no drinking on weekends or on weekdays for that matter. :grumpy:
4. no smoking! It'll kill ya!
5. no speeding
6. no heavy metal music
7. no gansta rap
8. no crazy hairstyles
9. you must only practice the ___________ faith
11. no single women. what example are you setting for family life?
12. no single parents
10. no being gay. We wouldn't want you converting students now.


Oh yes, I can see it all now. :|
 
nbcrusader said:
What happened to role models???
I would agree that it's not a really good idea for a teacher to have nude pictures flying about on the internet
but to revoke teaching certifications and act as if laws have been broken seems odd to me
you can't just revoke licenses because you don't agree with someone's private conduct when no laws have been broken
it would be nice if people in certain professions would understand their position as role model though
 
parents should understand this also yes
but that doesn't mean it suddenly becomes a good idea for a teacher to have nude pictures on the net for all to find
the chance of this damaging your position in the class is quite high I would think
still doesn't warrant revoking licences though
 
I don't think she should lose her job. It doesn't make her a bad teacher. It perhaps shows faulty judgment, but firing is an extreme consequence.
 
Salome said:
I would agree that it's not a really good idea for a teacher to have nude pictures flying about on the internet
but to revoke teaching certifications and act as if laws have been broken seems odd to me
you can't just revoke licenses because you don't agree with someone's private conduct when no laws have been broken
it would be nice if people in certain professions would understand their position as role model though

I agree, the particular action in this case is extreme, especially if there was no communication of this requirement.



Our ability to speculate what might consistute overreaching guidelines for professionals does not substantiate a conclusion that there should be no guidelines.
 
nbcrusader said:


Our ability to speculate what might consistute overreaching guidelines for professionals does not substantiate a conclusion that there should be no guidelines.

Again, who determines the guidelines? If these guidelines were to be spelled out they would be a contractual issue.
 
There was a time not too long ago when women teachers were not allowed to work if they were pregnant. About 30 or so years to be exact.
 
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